How do you cast your scrap lead into ingots

[BJung]

My cast range scrap ingots use to vary in hardness. Cast ingots happened to be from lots of either jacketed bullets, large lead pieces and hardcast bullets, or small range pieces that remained after I washed the debri from it. Ingots were separated in groups by hardness and I used the softest for .38 and .45. The harder ingots were saved for 9mm, .357, and 40cal. Then this week I read that factory jacketed 9mm, 40cal, and 45 jacketed bullets use 3% antinomy while .22lr has 1.2% antinomy. Has anyone tested jacketed factory bullets and found the average bhn to be uniquely the same than just melting everything together? I'm sorting a recently retrieved batch of range lead now.

[Whiterabbit]

Cast 100 lb at a time. Turkey fryer and 12” dutch oven. Ladle into molds. 100 lb batch keeps the uniformity decent.

[414gates]

If you powder coat and for handgun calibers, there is no need to worry about lead hardness.

Sorting ingots by harness is more useful for casting rile bullets.

[Czech_too]

I do batches, in a 5 quart Dutch oven, of between 40 to 60 lbs. This range lead is primarily from pistol bullets, and I've found no noticible difference in hardness, using the pencil test, 11-12BHN. I have found this suitable for both pistol and rifle, but I am not pushing the velocity.

[Land Owner]

Has anyone tested jacketed factory bullets and found the average bhn to be uniquely the same than just melting everything together?

IDK. They probably are not the same as one Mfg. is about as closed in its ingredient's formula as another.

"Certifiable" chemical analysis of lead alloys is, imo, much to do about nothing. I cannot chemically test an alloy myself. For most of us, it is "closest to the pin" when formulating an alloy - a Best Guess. To have someone else continually testing alloys is a costly non-starter. The Pencil Test for approximate BHN is as sophisticated and cheap as I intend to go.

I melt nuclear shielding lead (~49% by weight), with COWW's (~49%), and Tin (~2%). This Pb-WW-Sn alloy is ~12 BHN and "works" really well. Someone researched the Net for COWW constituents, and a host of other chemicals in alloys of lead and put them in a spreadsheet, which is linked to this site.

[Sasquatch-1]

When I use to sort, true jacketed bullets cast out to about 6 to 8 bhn, cast were anywhere from 18 to 22 (a lot of hard cast pistol bullets) and plated were thrown in with the jacketed. The last few buckets I did I threw everything together and still came out at 18 or above.

I was always under the impression that true commercial jacketed bullets were swaged from soft lead.

[OS OK]

Here's a couple charts that might help?

https://i.imgur.com/BwonHgj.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/oDUFZOf.jpg

[ascast]

I wish charts above were bigger-readable-prntable. I'm not sure I can add much to this. I short by bullet type,i.e. jacketed are swagged, so soft, near pure. Lots of factory stuff ( non jacketed) is so hard it survives rock backstops. It also survives UPS truck etc. Mixing large lots is the route I go, as others have stated. You will never get truly repeatable results from free lead. I used to process 40 pounds batches, and then take 2 ingots from each pile to mix for my bullets. This was rifle for 200 to 600 yd work. I was never able to see any difference that I could absolutely blame on bullet hardness. Be careful not to run too far down a road that goes nowhere. good luck

[Rickf1985]

I have a thread running now in this forum showing where I bought a large lot of lead that came from the estate of a reloader and was all good lead but the young man the bought the estate to sell it ( the seller I bought it from is the person that actually bought it from the estate) did not know at the time what it was besides it was lead so he just mixed it all up. I am sure it was separated and marked when he got it. I have been testing for hardness on the bigger pieces as best I can and keeping them separated by range of hardness. 10-14, 6-10, 14-16, 16-20 and 20 on up. The 20 on up range I am not doing anything with until it is tested so I know what I have and it is not zinc or antimony. The rest are getting tossed into the 250 lb. pot as their respective group and blended together and once cooled and rested for a couple weeks I will test hardness of each group. If two groups end up real close to each other they will be blended together into one group. Once I have distinct groups I will then send in a sample of each group so I know what is in each in case I or more likely a buyer or whomever gets it after I die wants to know or blend it they do not have to go through what I went through. Selling lead is much easier when you have a paper that tells you exactly what you have and it is not "unknown" lead.

[243winxb]

Bullet leads analyzed from CCI, Federal, Remington, and Winchester have contained up to 0.42 percent arsenic, 6.8 percent antimony, 2.5 percent tin, 0.2 percent bismuth, 0.22 percent copper, 0.031 percent silver, and 0.011 percent cadmium

From- The Basis for Compositional Bullet Lead Comparisons. By Charles A. Peters. https://www.ojp.gov/ncjrs/virtual-library/abstracts/basis-compositional-bullet-lead-comparisons

Old 2002 info. I bet scrap content has changed by now?

[243winxb]

Sierra makes the core of the bullet from four lead alloys: 6% antimony-4% tin, 6% antimony, 3% antimony, 1 1/2% antimony and pure lead. (Its on their website)

22lr have from zero antimony to 2%. Some will have an antimony coating or a special lube coating over pure lead.

[Kraschenbirn]

I salvaged lead from from the berms of our club range for over twenty years and hardness, after fluxing and pouring into ingots, was always fairly consistent in the range of 8-10 Bhn. Haven't done any berm mining for several years because all berms were redone as part of major range upgrade project (berms not sufficiently 'saturated' for salvage without considerable digging) but I imagine results would be about the same now as they were then. Oh yeah, I still have one or two stacks of ingots stamped 'RS' (range scrap) from the old berms; at least enough to keep me going 'til after my 80th birthday.

Bill

[lightman]

I melt my scrap, mostly clip-on wheelweights, in batches of 350-400 pounds. Most of the casters on here seem to do the same, only differing in the amounts. I've seen from 40# to 2000#. A cut off propane tank is a favorite melting pot.

I haven't used range scrap in a long time and have not had any tested. My wheelweights come out between 11 and 13 bhn.

[BJung]

Doesn't the BHN affect accuracy?

[Rickf1985]

Hardness itself has nothing to do with accuracy. What hardness does have to do with is leading of the barrels and how well the bullet seals the barrel. And THOSE two things have everything to do with accuracy. I keep seeing all this hoopla about how with powder coating you no longer need to use harder lead for higher velocities. I do not believe that for a minute. With a soft bullet and high pressure you are going to squeeze that bullet so tight in the barrel the powder coat will burn right off and become part of the problem followed a few inches down the barrel by the sloughed off lead. I have no proof of this and I never will, I will continue to do what has worked for 100 years!!! Ya can't change physics.

[243winxb]

Doesn't the BHN affect accuracy?

Yes , soft alloy bullets skid & slump. Loads like near maximum H110/ W296 in 44 magnums need harder alloy.

Photos of skid and slum, saved from castboolits.
https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?media/albums/casting-bullets.310/&page=2

I match bullet diameter to groove diameter + .0005" Not cylinder throats.

[BLAHUT]

[ How do you cast your scrap lead into ingots ]
I use a propane turkey fryer with a Dutch oven, use a mushroom can on a piece of conduit for a dipper and a browney tin for a mold. Keep it simple.

[Dave W.]

Like several others I use a Dutch oven on a propane turkey fryer. Lead gets sorted into 4 types, clip on wheel weights, stick on wheel wights, used jacketed bullets and used cast bullets. Each type is melted separately and cast into a uniquely shaped ingot. This way it is easy to identity the type of lead, by the shape of the ingot. To a degree, the hardness can be varied by mixing the different types. Hardness is not something I get to concerned about, close is good enough.

[Net]

Yes , soft alloy bullets skid & slump. Loads like near maximum H110/ W296 in 44 magnums need harder alloy.

Photos of skid and slum, saved from castboolits.
https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?media/albums/casting-bullets.310/&page=2

I match bullet diameter to groove diameter + .0005" Not cylinder throats.

Neat pictures with that info. Thanks for sharing.

[BJung]

My problem is that I can only cast my ingots in small batches. I then blend parts of ingots of the same bhn when I cast bullets. Does anyone try this?

[Bigslug]

You may find this helpful: https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?269789-Careful-Analysis-of-Segregated-Range-Scrap-Smelt&highlight=segregated+range+scrap

[imashooter2]

Several buckets go into a wheel barrow. The wheelbarrow loads an 8 quart Dutch oven with a garden shovel. The pot is emptied into Lyman molds. The ingots are stacked until the session is finished. Then they are jumbled into the same buckets the raw ore came from and placed into storage. One ingot might be slightly harder or softer than the next. I don’t check because it doesn’t matter.

http://imashooter2.com/pictures/kitchen600.jpg
http://imashooter2.com/pictures/smelt10-30s.jpg

[GregLaROCHE]

I use a Dutch oven to melt and a soup ladle the pour into angle iron molds. The ladle happens to be the exact to fill for each ingot. Ingots are around one kilo. The triangular shape is efficient when putting them on end in my Lee 20 lb pot. Also my molds are made of very thin angle iron. I think it helps them cool faster.

[BJung]

[QUOTE]Hardness itself has nothing to do with accuracy. What hardness does have to do with is leading of the barrels. And THOSE two things have everything to do with accuracy. With a soft bullet and high pressure you are going to squeeze that bullet so tight in the barrel the powder coat will burn right off and become part of the problem followed a few inches down the barrel by the sloughed off lead.

And so, a harder bullet is better for say PC 9mm, 357mag, and 40cal, yes

[BJung]

Thanks

[Rickf1985]

Harder within reason, 12-14bhn for those listed. JMHO

[OS OK]

I use a Dutch oven to melt and a soup ladle the pour into angle iron molds. The ladle happens to be the exact to fill for each ingot. Ingots are around one kilo. The triangular shape is efficient when putting them on end in my Lee 20 lb pot. Also my molds are made of very thin angle iron. I think it helps them cool faster.

Same here!

There is no better ingot shape for loading a 'full-load' (aprox. 16 pounds) into a Lee pot.

https://i.imgur.com/bXSaT38.jpg

There is no better ingot shape for stacking and storing and identifying the lead.
If you make your ingot mold the right length, they stack beautifully in a USPS shipping box should you be selling lead.

https://i.imgur.com/ku24wpH.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/xhrFIui.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/G2sMlWL.jpg

This is about 325 pounds, it'll move fairly easily with a small dolly.

https://i.imgur.com/5dYyNox.jpg

When my 'odd shaped' ingots are gone, there will not be any more of them created.

[kbstenberg]

OS OK A question please. As well as color coating the ends of the ingots. Do you also mark the hardness on the ingots side?
As a side note. I am not a metal worker but I am a woodworker. So I made ingot molds like the one you showed but with wooden endcaps. I used 2 pieces of all thread through both endcaps with nuts and washers to hold everything tight. Its not as easy to dump as yours, but that is to my skill level. Kevin

[BJung]

I love that coffee can on top of your hotplate

[OS OK]

OS OK A question please. As well as color coating the ends of the ingots. Do you also mark the hardness on the ingots side?
As a side note. I am not a metal worker but I am a woodworker. So I made ingot molds like the one you showed but with wooden endcaps. I used 2 pieces of all thread through both endcaps with nuts and washers to hold everything tight. Its not as easy to dump as yours, but that is to my skill level. Kevin

I was stamping these ingots on the end as to the 'source' of the lead & then after that, I had an idea to color code them and leave that information marked on the sides of a single ingot from that batch...keep them in the top of the basket so I could choose ingots by color code.

https://i.imgur.com/6VFiRQ2.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/Nvy3ZwR.jpg

I realize that BHN will change over time so if it is that critical (as if I am making up a batch of HP Pb) I will re-BHN-test the ingot before selecting it for a mix.

However I still use the 1/4" steel stamps for marking the weight in pounds & ounces of ingots I make of 60-40 solder and pure tin.

https://i.imgur.com/joSG6uP.jpg

If your inclined to be a bit 'OCD' like me...it's very easy to make a lot of extra (non-essential) work for yourself...I'm trying to be better about that! :bigsmyl2:

[OS OK]

I love that coffee can on top of your hotplate

Thanks...I think it helps to keep the heat all around the mould...sorta like a mould oven.

[kevin c]

Here’s a way of casting with a consistent alloy composition when you can only do small batches that vary in content:

Make several batches, each of the same total weight, producing small ingots all from the same mold and the same weight (perhaps one ladleful each as suggested above). Mark each batch of ingots with a distinct mark or number.

When casting, start the pot with ingots from each batch, in a ratio (one each is easiest) that you will continue to use each time you recharge the pot. That way you’ll be adding the same mix you started with, and can maintain that mix until you run out of ingots, which will happen after you run the pot through the total weight of all the batches.

That’s the upside. The downside is on-the-fly adjustments to the alloy are harder to keep consistent with subsequent refills, and that you need to empty the pot enough each time to allow recharging with a lot of ingots at once if you are using several batches (tends to freeze the pot).

[gwpercle]

You waste too much time with small pots .
Get a Turkey frying burner and stand and as big a melting pot as you can beg, borrow or steal . I put everything scrap in there , all range scrap , 22 's cast boolits , stick on wheel weights , roof flashing , lead wall sheathing and plumbers lead ...melt it all !
Load up all you scrap and melt ... fluxing good about three times ...cast into ingots .
The larger the batch the less vary between ingots ... I consider it all soft (maybe not pure ) lead and mix with COWW or Tin for casting centerfire handgun / rifle boolits .
Gary

[Net]

I was stamping these ingots on the end as to the 'source' of the lead & then after that, I had an idea to color code them and leave that information marked on the sides of a single ingot from that batch...keep them in the top of the basket so I could choose ingots by color code.

https://i.imgur.com/6VFiRQ2.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/Nvy3ZwR.jpg

I realize that BHN will change over time so if it is that critical (as if I am making up a batch of HP Pb) I will re-BHN-test the ingot before selecting it for a mix.

However I still use the 1/4" steel stamps for marking the weight in pounds & ounces of ingots I make of 60-40 solder and pure tin.

https://i.imgur.com/joSG6uP.jpg

If your inclined to be a bit 'OCD' like me...it's very easy to make a lot of extra (non-essential) work for yourself...I'm trying to be better about that! :bigsmyl2:

Hats off Sir. Very nice system.

[samari46]

Have the Lee ingot molds. Fire up the turkey fryer (from wal mart) load it up and flux well then pour into ingot molds. Pretty sure my dutch oven holds 8 quarts. Used to mine the pistol berms and would separate all the hard cast 45 bullets and melt them down separately. Then store those ingots away from the rest. Frank

[technojock]

Those home made angle iron molds make me wish I was a better at welding...

Tony

[Whiterabbit]

You don’t have to be good. Thats the beauty of angle ingot molds. Just weld up the outside and the inside just works. Have the angles cut to the same length and its a slam dunk. Have at least 3+ because they get hot and you have to wait too long before dumping ingots.

[kevin c]

I’m coming to believe that the most important thing with any mold, especially a long, skinny one, is to pour on a perfectly level surface.

I like my ingots purty…

[Sasquatch-1]

Those home made angle iron molds make me wish I was a better at welding...

Tony

If you decide to make these, do not cut them off at a 90-degree angle. You will need a slight angle on the end so your ingot will release.

For those that are new (and I don't think anyone has mentioned this) don't use the aluminum pots that normally come with a turkey or fish frier.

[technojock]

I wonder if I could make them out of aluminum angle and use that low temp aluminum brazing rod to put them together? That way I'd have the advantage of the ingots not sticking to the mold. Also I could use a miter box to cut the aluminum angle since it will cut with a wood saw.

Tony

[Rickf1985]

I wonder if I could make them out of aluminum angle and use that low temp aluminum brazing rod to put them together? That way I'd have the advantage of the ingots not sticking to the mold. Also I could use a miter box to cut the aluminum angle since it will cut with a wood saw.

Tony

I would be curious to see how the aluminum angle works. It works well for molds. Personally I would TIG weld them but then again I am a welder and have a TIG welding machine.

[imashooter2]

I wonder if I could make them out of aluminum angle and use that low temp aluminum brazing rod to put them together? That way I'd have the advantage of the ingots not sticking to the mold. Also I could use a miter box to cut the aluminum angle since it will cut with a wood saw.

Tony

Aluminum makes great ingot molds. But 750° liquidous on the brazing rods? That’s cutting it a little too close.

[OS OK]

I wonder if I could make them out of aluminum angle and use that low temp aluminum brazing rod to put them together? That way I'd have the advantage of the ingots not sticking to the mold. Also I could use a miter box to cut the aluminum angle since it will cut with a wood saw.

Tony

I'm not sure about the low temp. brazing rod? Might it melt & come apart or soften under the temps of molten lead?
You might try that but I'd run an all-thread rod from one side to the other in at least two places. Don't forget the ends of the angle used for the ingots, don't cut them square, just a few degrees out of 90º should get them to release.
My steel ingots don't stick to the lead...when they have cooled a few minutes I just flip them over and the ingots come right out.

[Geezer in NH]

When AT&T split with New England T&T ordered by the court back in the 70's I went past the dumpsters at their garage every shift I worked. Got my AT&T Propane outfit that will hold 100 pounds to the top of the cast iron pot. I hold it to 3/4 from the top seem to get 95 1-pound ingots each melt.

I also recovered many full and partial boxes of solder 7 unopened and heavy!!

I have acumulated over the years 8 Lyman ingot molds and 3 Lees. I only fill the 1-pounders on the Lee's and Use the 1/2 pounders doing tin or pewter.

I had to move over a full ton of lead in 1985 when we moved to NH Most was Lino. Bought or scrounged all at about $.10 a pound. The 70's were the days of scrapping!

[leadbutt]

Dutch oven, fish fryer. Then pour into lino pigs.

[GregLaROCHE]

I’ve used those brazing type aluminum rods before and they worked well for small low stress projects. However, I wouldn’t trust them with molten lead. Your first couple of tries might work and later let loose when not expected.

It would be interesting to know, if someone has any of those rods, to stick them into a pot of molten lead to see what happens.

[414gates]

I once made moulds for the scrap melt from mild steel round tubing cut down the middle, welded to angle iron.

It was a lot of effort to make them, they took up a lot of space to store, and the longer they sat, the more rusty they became.

I since tossed them all out, and now I use mini bread pans. Cheap to buy and stackable for storage. Half full gives a manageable brick.

https://www.amazon.com/Nonstick-Baking-Rectangular-Bakeware-Meatloaf/dp/B08432DPQ2

For smaller melters, steel muffin trays -

https://www.amazon.com/far-Stainless-Cupcake-Non-toxic-Dishwasher/dp/B08KT52SZ6/ref=sr_1_5?crid=3G81CBKO3NXJ3&keywords=steel+muffin+tray&qid=1667376458&qu=eyJxc2MiOiIwLjAwIiwicXNhIjoiMC4wMCIsInFzcCI6IjA uMDAifQ%3D%3D&sprefix=steel+muffin+tra%2Caps%2C393&sr=8-5

[BNE]

I’m coming to believe that the most important thing with any mold, especially a long, skinny one, is to pour on a perfectly level surface.

I like my ingots purty…

I unfortunately feel the same way. I’ve been known to pull out a level and make sure my molds are on a flat surface before I pour. I don’t think this condition is treatable. :)

[Sasquatch-1]

I wonder if I could make them out of aluminum angle and use that low temp aluminum brazing rod to put them together? That way I'd have the advantage of the ingots not sticking to the mold. Also I could use a miter box to cut the aluminum angle since it will cut with a wood saw.

Tony

If you decide to try this, get a cheap cake pan from somewhere to put the molds in while pouring in case it fails.

A while back there was someone here selling angle iron molds. I don't remember who but if you place a "wanted to buy" in S&S they may respond.

Also, if you see an old bed frame in the trash, they have a lot of angle iron in them.

[Rickf1985]

I unfortunately feel the same way. I’ve been known to pull out a level and make sure my molds are on a flat surface before I pour. I don’t think this condition is treatable. :)

I am glad to hear I am not the only person that does that! Not only level but VERY level. Nothing worse than a stack of ingots that leans!!!!!

[fredj338]

Doesn't the BHN affect accuracy?

Maybe, depends on the pressures you push them. Even pure lead does fine in target WC. With PC, alloy isnt as important but you still have to pay attention if pushing pressures hard. I get better accuracy from harder alloy at higher pressures.

[OS OK]

A member here on CB... Joe Leadslinger ...is the guy who makes the angle iron moulds...up in Oregon.
He sent me mine and has made them for several others.

[kevin c]

I unfortunately feel the same way. I’ve been known to pull out a level and make sure my molds are on a flat surface before I pour. I don’t think this condition is treatable. :)

Like you, I prefer my ingots to be esthetically pleasing. Like Rickf1985, I want them to stack well. Honestly, I think the first matters to me more.

I have a level function on my iPhone. It lies…

[BJung]

I tried the cupcake pan once and the lead wouldn't drop out. I ended up knocking out the cup and using a propane torch to melt the lead into my lead pot. Will a steel angle iron mold work or would the lead stick. Therefore, aluminum would be a better choice, yes?

[The Dar]

I tried the cupcake pan once and the lead wouldn't drop out. I ended up knocking out the cup and using a propane torch to melt the lead into my lead pot. Will a steel angle iron mold work or would the lead stick. Therefore, aluminum would be a better choice, yes?

If the pan was steel, rust is your friend. I left mine outside for a couple months till it was good and rusty. The ingots fall right out.

[leadbutt]

Your stash probably looks stacked and pretty like Ft. Knox lol.

[kevin c]

I tried the cupcake pan once and the lead wouldn't drop out. I ended up knocking out the cup and using a propane torch to melt the lead into my lead pot. Will a steel angle iron mold work or would the lead stick. Therefore, aluminum would be a better choice, yes?

If it was an old cupcake pan, made of tin plated steel, I’ve read here that the ingot can actually fuse with the plating.

If the pan, steel or aluminum, is dented on the sides, in or out, the ingot can bind in the cup.

Rusty steel seems to release the ingots easily (the same seems true of aluminum). Nonstick coatings on steel will burn off, and will make for pocked ingot surfaces until they do. Have a care to avoid the fumes: from personal experience I can tell you they are very irritating.

[kevin c]

Your stash probably looks stacked and pretty like Ft. Knox lol.

https://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=282501&d=1620289748

240# per pile. ;^]

[GregLaROCHE]

I like my ingots level too. I use molten lead like a water level. If it starts spilling out of one particular side, I make adjustments.

[boog]

I am glad to hear I am not the only person that does that! Not only level but VERY level. Nothing worse than a stack of ingots that leans!!!!!

Should be able to rotate every other ingot to make the lean even, I would think.

[Rickf1985]

You can be then they are not "right"! OCD my friend, it is a cruel master.:twisted:

[kevin c]

^^^ What he said…Perfect is perfect; everything else is just compromise ;^].

But, yeah, I’ve reversed them rather than remelt them X^p.

[Rickf1985]

Kevin, I remember that pic from when you posted it, pretty sure I made a comment about your garage going to fall over sideways.[smilie=l:

[bruce381]

LOL I keep a propane torch on and handy to polish the tops of my ingots smooth.

[fredj338]

I use diff molds for diff alloys. That way I know at a glance what I have. Lino stays in type form, pure goes into 1# Lyman molds, range scrap into a custom 2# alum mold I got here, clip weight into a 3# channel iron mold. So I always know what I have & the mold size dictates the amount.