Gonna try this again.

[armoredman]

305922
Once more with the paper cartridges...this time with the 1858.
305925

[HamGunner]

I played around with paper cartridges for my 1851 Navies, but found it a bit hard to get the fragile cartridges into the cylinder in one piece. Revolvers with more loading room should do much better.

[stubshaft]

looks good, good luck.

[Sasquatch-1]

Mike Belavue(Sp?) does have an old video on modifying certain C&B revolvers loading area to make it easier to load. You may have to do a little searching to find it.

[Jackrabbit1957]

A lot of it seems to do with the paper, if you use cigarette paper the cartridge is much more prone to tearing. I found these beauty product papers, no idea what they are used for, 1000 of them for about 2 bucks. They are much tougher and burn completely, leaving only a small ring in the chamber from where one glues the end cap to the cartridge. If they are rolled with a taper they slip right into the chamber. The big problem is having a conical bullet attached as Armoredman shows in his pics on the 1851 Colt replicas, the loading port is way small. One could always hog it out with a dremel tool so it works.

[armoredman]

We had good luck. I was VERY careful, as Jackrabbit mentioned the paper is not very sturdy. If you do remember what paper you used, I'd be happy to try it out.
However, the 1858 loading port was large enough to use without any real issue.
305934

I threw a small target on the B-27 I had been using for other guns, so it would both show the group size but also show the gun will reliably hit a man-sized target at gunfight range.

305935

I had exactly 10 rounds, so the six went in slow fire. Accuracy was...meh...but the load was 25 grains of Olde Eysnford rather than the usual 30, due to the way the kit is made. I know, any excuse in a storm...there's a flyer just out of camera range on top. That was number 6.

305936

However, like I said, it would have done the job, and to prove the point, I tried the last four as head shots.

305937

Yeah, I don't know where number 4 went, either. The wife said it went high. Took his hat off on the way down, I guess, adding insult to injury. Fatal injury in this case.

So, paper worked much better this time, once I figured out HOW to roll them and keep them together. I would still like to try a different paper - cigarette paper doesn't burn up completely.
Thanks for reading!

[scattershot]

Second Mike Belevieu on YouTube. He has posted several videos, some recent, regarding paper cartridges.

[bedbugbilly]

I can't remember what the papers are called that beauticians use - but I know they have been recommended for rolling your own by a number of those that do. Easy enough to ask a beautician the proper name for them or find a beauty shapely house - again, just ask a beautician who they use - then buy the quantity you want. IIRC - the papers are used when doing "perms".

Edit addition: Go to Amazon and do a search for "Perm Paper" - there is a variety of brands listed and inexpensive for good quantity of them. If you wanted to try them and know a beautician - you could maybe ask them for a few sheets to try - grease the wheels and take them a nice cup of coffee to say "thanks". If they work, possibly buy some from their supplier or order from Amazon. I.ve heard that the perm paper is stronger than cigarette papers, but still combusts well.

[Super Sneaky Steve]

I've seen coffee filters work well after soaking in a KNO3 bath. They are robust and burn well after nitrating.

For me the juice isn't worth the squeeze. Premeasured 2cc micro tubes are pretty fast, reusable and durable.

[charlie b]

We went same route. Cig paper too hard to work with. The hair roller papers worked OK. But, we would 'paint' some nitrate on the ignition end of the papers after the tube was formed. We also tried soaking the paper in a nitrate first, but, that was kinda messy.

The taper was what we found worked best for two reasons. Much easier to load and it would cause the paper to split when the ball was seated. That made ignition very reliable. Also critical for us was how the end of the tube was formed. If too many layers of paper were folded then ignition suffered. We ended up with a fairly small end of the tapered tube and just twisted the paper. Applied some glue and then clipped off the tail. Painted with nitrate.

PS I think we ended up using super glue (CA) for the end and no nitrate. The CA seemed to burn just as well as the nitrate.

[armoredman]

I've seen coffee filters work well after soaking in a KNO3 bath. They are robust and burn well after nitrating.

For me the juice isn't worth the squeeze. Premeasured 2cc micro tubes are pretty fast, reusable and durable.
2cc microtubes? Can you elaborate on that?

[Jackrabbit1957]

The papers I use are called end papers, no idea what ends means. By the way I am doing a Halloween 20% discount on my full revolver tune.

[bedbugbilly]

armoredman - the 2cc microtubes are sold on fleabay - and probably available elsewhere. I've seen them on fleabay - I believe you can get them that come in a plastic case that holds them - 50 and 100.

Another thing to consider if you don't want to fool with the hassle of rolling your own are the loading tubes that, IIRC, are sold by Lodgewood Mfg. as well as a number of Civil War Sutlers. They are made for .36 and .44 and are basically a flexible vinyl (/) like tube that is closed on one end. Poor you charge in and slide your ball/conical in the open end. Same principal as the loading tubes for .58/.69 cal. rifled muskets used by the N-SSA. The tubes are re-usable and will last a long time. When I first started shooting N-SSA back in the early 60s, all that was available were cardboard loading tubes, then they came out with hard plastic and then the flexible tubes - reminds me of the material used to dip tool handles in. For the pistol tubes, the tube holds the ball conical in place and when you go to load, you just sort of pinch the slug out - poor in the powder charge and proceed to load from there.

I have rolled a few C & B cartridges but never got too involved with it - but, I fully understand how some folks like them.

I play fiddle and I used to repair them and still have my violin peg reamer and violin peg shaver tools. At some point, I'm going to take a piece of hard maple and make a cartridge making form to try, using the hard maple for the female portion of the former and a violin peg as the male portion of the former (tube mandrel) as the taper looks like it would be ideal.

Years ago, a friend that I shot N-SSA with gave me a package of "nitrate paper" that he had found in a "Magic Store". We were going to try and make some nitrated cartridges but just never got around to it. I remember that they were about the size of cigarette papers and they came sealed in a small plastic bag wrapper - for some reason, they were "wet" - i.e. they were soaked and wet in the bag. I took several out and let them dry and then touched a match to them and "poof", they were gone. I don't have any idea if something like that is still available or not, but it might be another place to look for something to work as the cartridge tube.

[charlie b]

Nitrate paper is commonly used in magic tricks.

[armoredman]

Ah, the magic I look for is a paper cartridge load that hits the mark. :)

[Super Sneaky Steve]

2cc microtubes? Can you elaborate on that?

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08X4B3V9V?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details

Ten bucks gets you 250 tubes. They fit well in some cartridge boxes. The flip top means you can pop the top one handed. Pair these with lubed conicals and you can shoot a whole lot real fast. No wads, no powder measures, no flask.

I don't have a lot of free time with two kids and a job so when I do make it to the range I need to maximize my time there. Premeasured tubes for everything black powder is a good time saver.

For rifle I used these.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B09GZK1PZ1/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I can weigh each charge for better accuracy.

[armoredman]

I see what you mean- that would speed things up. I do need to clarify that I don't mind all the mess that goes with BP - if I wanted to shoot speedy, I'd stick with them new fangled cartridge thingamabobs like them youngsters go on about...but a little faster is always cool, plus the paper cartridge was a thing back in the day. However, the tubes might be something really look into. :)

[charlie b]

I use tubes for premeasured loads in my BP rifles all the time. I take the time to weigh the loads as well (note, BP subs do not have the same weight per volume as BP).

[LAGS]

I too have used Pre Measured tubes of powder in my rifles.
I went with pre measured by weight because I use Homemade BP that is about 15% less weight per volume than my factory powder.
And , Yes.
The BP Subs weigh a lot less per volume than factory BP.
So " If" I ever use Subs.
I do the measuring by Volume only.
I do have one question.
What and how do you Nitrate paper for the paper tubes for paper cartridge shooting?

[armoredman]

I don't know - willing to learn. Anyone?

[Jackrabbit1957]

I believe you soak them in a weak nitric acid solution. The "end papers" I use burn completely so I don't bother with such things.

[indian joe]

I too have used Pre Measured tubes of powder in my rifles.
I went with pre measured by weight because I use Homemade BP that is about 15% less weight per volume than my factory powder.
And , Yes.
The BP Subs weigh a lot less per volume than factory BP.
So " If" I ever use Subs.
I do the measuring by Volume only.
I do have one question.
What and how do you Nitrate paper for the paper tubes for paper cartridge shooting?

just guessing here - try a strong solution of KNO3 (you already have it) soak em in it, dry out, apply match, what happened?.

Nitric acid is nasty stuff to handle unless its well diluted - I would be sure of it before I messed with that stuff - I think the people that test bullion / precious metals use diluted nitric ......?

[LAGS]

From what I am viewing on line.
They are using 2 cups of water to 1/2 cup of Potassium Nitrate.
They did the Video using stump remover.
They just soak the paper in the liquid and let it dry out .
Then they let the liquid that is left over dry out.
It turns back into Crystal's once the water evaporates and is Re Usable.
I need to find time , and then I will try making some paper cartridges for my rifles.

[Brokenbear]

Get a few cups like dressing comes in at a restaurant
Buy a tube of Duco Cement which is a cellulose based glue
Get a bottle of acetone the same time you pick up "curler papers" from the beauty supply house
Put a dime size drop of Duco in the cup and matching drops of acetone and mix ..use as glue for all glue points including end cap, side and ball to paper
To help accuracy make sure you are shaving a 360 degree ring of lead
Also to help accuracy an fouling dip the now formed cartridge in warmed 50 / 50 bees wax and olive oil ..dip bullet first it until it just starts to touch the powder 306097

[armoredman]

Interesting. I think I will try the nitrating idea LAGS have, and will check the local beauty parlors for perm paper - I just won't tell them WHAT it will be used for, they might get the vapors...

[Jackrabbit1957]

I think you soak them in a weak nitric acid solution.

[Super Sneaky Steve]

Here's a good video on it. It's not really "nitrating" but it has the desired effect. No acid needed.
https://youtu.be/AQAxp8dUiJQ
Just a KNO3 bath is all that's needed.