Soft lead and pc in 9 luger

[nueces5]

Good morning, I have a question to ask you, which I hope will save me a lot of test shots.
I've gotten some pretty good 9mm boolits, using clear pc. I use two molds, an MP of 135 RNFP NLG and an RCBS which is my favorite 124 CN, TC
I have purchased 100 lbs of lead ingots from a range and yesterday I measured the hardness. It is 9bhn with the Lee hardness tester.
I'm a bit short on linotype, has anyone tested soft lead boolits (10 from bhn) and pc? the idea is to add very little linotype and if necessary make two PCs. to my boolits.
I know that the 9 luger is quite a difficult animal to tame, that's why I ask before I start working.
Thanks!

[Misery-Whip]

Ive never tested bhn. And I fire some soft alloy pc'd without issues. I aim for 40-1 tin alloy. For 9mm, 45, and 38s.

[Kosh75287]

I think I'd cast 50 of the 135s with unaltered scrap lead, and 50 of the 124s of the same stuff. Make a small batch of scrap lead + whatever % of linotype you hope to use as hardener and cast 50 each of the 135s & 124s from IT. Load and shoot them, and see which batch(es) exhibit the most dramatic leading.
If you divide your new scrap lead into 2 lots and use linotype on one of them, I think I'd try to run the original (no linotype added) stuff for casting the heavier projectiles. Velocity is not the ONLY factor in leading, but it seems to be a big one. If, due to other constraints (chamber pressure, etc.,) you must push the 135s slower anyway, then don't add any linotype if you don't have to. Worst case scenario, you end up PC-ing a bunch of bullet. Oh, the HORROR! LOL

[nueces5]

Ignorance is bliss...:)

[Idz]

I've used range scrap (9-10 BHN) for 9mm, with double pc of HF red, and sized to 0.357, for years with success. Most important thing I found was to expand case mouth so it doesn't squeeze down the soft lead or scrape off the pc. I use the Lee factory crimp die as the final step. My target loads work fine in Glocks, Berettas, Keltec, and Sigs.

[nueces5]

more or less it is the same that a friend of the forum told me, by email
as he says, it is the best way
but I listen to those who use it without getting so complicated with measurements and it works well for them

[nueces5]

that it works in so many pistols is very difficult
is the best test

[reddog81]

If correctly sized and using the appropriate case expander you should be able to get something to work. I've found it easier to get good accuracy with lighter 9mm loads and soft cast bullets. If trying to push them hard I would recommend a better alloy.

[sse]

I have found that at reasonable velocity, powder coating makes boolit hardness much less important in both accuracy or leading.

[MT Gianni]

Cast 50 and see what you think, single coat some, double coat some. Bore condition, color of PC and coverage will probably mean it's an individual gun thing. .

[Elpatoloco]

Um, I load .45acp, 9mm, 38 special( HOT) and full house 10mm loads with range scrap and 1 coat of powder from smokes. Nothing leads since I started powdercoating. I have a 5 gallon bucket cast up for 44 mag and another for the linebaugh. I still convential lube those slugs. When they are gone, I'm going to try range scrap and the powder coat on them. Im done playing mix and match for hardness. The 9mm,10mm,38,44, and 45 are all plain base.

9mm hard to tame? I read that before as well. No different than anything else. I promise my 10s run more pressure.

[blue32]

I've always used range scrap which appears to be 9-10. PC with Eastwood whatever.

9mm was hard to tame because the case is tapered and my dillon expander undersizes for cast. PC helps keep the outside bullet diameter from being swaged down in the undersized case.

[nueces5]

Well, I took two kilos of range lead, which I had measured at 9 bhn, I added 400 grams of linotype to it and then I threw the boolits in the water and measured it, it gave me 14 bhn!!
I did the boolits the same, but in the week I do the experiment again

[Recycled bullet]

Hello. How many cavities do your mp and rcbs molds have and have you considered hollow points? the mp359125hp sized to 357 and loaded with autocomp or power pistol has performed well in many dissimilar 9mm and 38/357 handguns and rifles that I have tested.

[blue32]

Well, I took two kilos of range lead, which I had measured at 9 bhn, I added 400 grams of linotype to it and then I threw the boolits in the water and measured it, it gave me 14 bhn!!

So 2,000 grams of range lead and 400 grams of lino gave you 14? Curious on the math. I'm asking because the alloy calculator I use is more like 11.6.

[Dusty Bannister]

I doubt the alloy calculator will show the correct hardness since he water quenched the bullets.

[Hick]

I have 2 of the german 9mm pistols that came after the Luger and used the same ammo (back in WWII) - a P38 and a P1. I feed both of them the 124 TC bullet made with junk alloy that seems to be about 9 bhn. One coat of Smoke's clear and they shoot very nicely indeed. I run them at 1040 fps-- mostly because that's what the P38 was designed for (in terms of recoil and springs).

[BJung]

I love tinkering with load variations, and now with alloy variations. Whether you air cool or water drop your cast bullets, the hardness will vary between the two and the hardness will change over time. I like to think of the water dropped bullet like baked bread. Over time, that hardness will soften and affect your accuracy load. I prefer to either water drop, load, and shoot those bullets in a short amount of time. Or, I would air cool the bullets, powder coat and resize them, and let the bullet hardness stabilize. I have testloads made to see if cases of various wall thickness by headstamp effects accuracy. If you don't flare your case mouth, the pc will scrap off. But, I've discovered that whether a case has a thick or thin wall, with flared cases, the pc remained on when the case mouth was flared.

[nueces5]

I made a batch of boolits with bhn of 8, I made 3 layers of pc
another batch with 10.4, and made a pc layer for it

now to wait 15 days and try them

[P Flados]

I use range scrap with a hardness of mid 7 to around 9 bhn.

I had a hard time getting powder coated cast to work in 9mm.

I fixed my problem by going with a bigger bullet and a custom expander.

Once I did the above, I found I could run full power with no problems with one coat of ASBB shake & bake. This ammo gives zero leading in a variety of different guns. I do not worry about alloy hardness, and some batches are softer than others.

[Elpatoloco]

I made a batch of boolits with bhn of 8, I made 3 layers of pc
another batch with 10.4, and made a pc layer for it

now to wait 15 days and try them

Serious Question. Why wait 15 days? Why wait 10 minutes? Will make no difference with dead soft lead.

[nueces5]

time does the same thing as water quenched
I am not going to wait 3 months, but in 15 days the alloy has increased its hardness quite a bit
One option is when they come out of the PC oven, throw them into the water, but I don't like to play with water

[gwpercle]

I cast a NOE 358 - 124 - TC - GC out of 50-50 COWW and soft lead ...BHN = 8.5 to 9
or so I'm told . Air cooler and lubed with Lithi-Bee lube/ gas checks are used .
sized .357" used in 9mm Luger ( a WWII P-38 and 4 others) and in 38 Super .
sized .358" used in 38 Special , 38 Special +P and 357 Magnum .

No leading and better accuracy than when using straight COWW .
I actually prefer the softer metal . 40 / 1 (40 parts Lead / 1 part Tin)= BHN 8.5 ,
so you get an idea of how soft the 50-50 COWW-Lead mix is ... but it works .
The gas check also helps when Seating the boolit ... it helps a lot !
Gary

[nueces5]

I imagine the gascheck must be very good to prevent the boolit from shrinking when it settles.
The gaschecks are not an option in my case, since I have to do many loads in ipsc, it is already difficult for me to do them in rifle boolits..