billmc2
10-19-2022, 04:01 PM
Last week I posted my results of 32 S&W Long using the Load data from the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook 4th Edition. You can find that thread here: https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?448474-32-S-amp-W-Long-Chrono-Results
When reading Lyman's book I noticed that the powder charges for the Saeco #326 100 gr semi-wadcutter, using Accurate No 5, was the same for 32 S&W Long and 32 H&R Mag. The book shows different, higher velocities in the 32 Mag. Noted they used a 4" revolver for the S&W testing and used a 5" Universal Receiver for 32 Mag.
I could not understand how using a larger case volume with the same powder charge would give higher velocities. So I wrote to Lyman and asked. This was the conversation
I have a copy of the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook, 4th Edition which I assume is the 10th printing.
I am relatively new to hand loading and I've just gotten my first bullet mold in 32 caliber. I was looking at two loads you have listed and Ive encountered something I do not understand and were hoping you could explain them to me. These are loads for the 32 S&W Long and the 32 H&R Magnum. They are on pages 239 and 241. Both of these loads are using the Saeco #326 mold. Both loads use Accurate #5 powder.
For the 32 S&W Long you show a starting load of 3.1 grains of powder with a starting velocity of 627 feet per second. The maximum load is shown to be 3.6 grains of powder with a velocity of 733 feet per second.
The 32 H&R Magnum shows a starting load of 3.1 gr with a starting velocity of 821 ft/sec. The max load is shown to be 3.6 gr with a velocity of 893 ft/sec. This load is also show to be the most accurate.
Aside from the case length, I do not see any difference between these two loads. I would expect to see the 32 H&R Magnum to have greater powder charges to achieve greater velocities. With the lesser case volume of the 32 S&W Long, I would expect higher pressures for the same charge, thus creating higher velocities.
While not exactly the same, I notice a similar condition when using Titegroup powder. For the 32 S&W Long the starting and max powder charges are 1.8 gr @ 628 ft/sec and max 2.1 @ 742 ft/sec. The 32 H&R Magnum is shown to be starting 1.9 gr at 815 ft/sec and max 2.2 gr at 892 ft/sec. Will 0.1 gr of powder in a larger case really cause almost 200 ft/sec difference at the starting charge value?
Ive been discussing these loads on the Stopping Power web forum. Folks there cant explain these differences to me. Someone suggested that there might be a misprint in the handbook. Can you please confirm that the published loads are correct and, if so, explain what happens that causes the same powder charges producing different results between cartridges?
Thanks for your help.
Bill
Hello William,
We agree that the velocities do look a little odd, but we confirmed that these were the correct numbers received during testing. There are a couple of factors that came into play however. One, was that the barrel on the 32 H&R was 1 longer than the 32 S&W. A larger factor however is that our 32 H&R test barrel does not have a cylinder gap were as the S&W revolver used in the 32 S&W data does. A barrel with no cylinder gap will maintain pressure longer and produce higher velocities. We will make a note on this however and recheck the data when were able.
Best Regards,
Customer Service
Lyman Products / Raytech Industries
475 Smith Street, Middletown, CT 06457
Phone: 800-225-9626
Email: Customerservice@Lymanproducts.com
I've just finished measuring my 32 Mag loads. This was a Brass Arsenal Mold .32 98 Gr SWC Keith. I powder coated using Powder By The Pound. These were fired from a Charter Arms Undercoverette with 2" barrel. Starline brass. Accurate No 5 powder. CCI 500 primer. Load data was from the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook, 4th Edition; Saeco #326 100 gr. ProChrono chronograph.
I cast the bullets used in the 32 S&W test and the 32 Mag test at the same time. The powder and primers came from the same packaging in both cases. As I expected the 32 Mag loads did not show higher velocities compared to 32 S&W. I used the same revolver for both measurements.
These are my results:
Name: 32 H&R Mag 3.6 gr Accurate No 5
Notes: Arsenal Mold 98 grain LSWC Charter Arms Undercoverette 2 inch
Shots: 6
Average: 723 ft/s
SD: 10 ft/s
Min: 707 ft/s
Max: 733 ft/s
Spread: 26 ft/s
Power Factor Average: 70
Power Factor Low: 69
Power Factor High: 71
Barometric Pressure: 30.3 in Hg
Temperature: 58F
Weight: 98 gr.
Powder : 3.6 gr Accurate No 5
Primer : CCI 500
Bullet : Arsenal Mold 32 cal 98 gr Keith
C.O.L.: 1.400
Trim to Length : 1.065
Name: 32 H&R Mag 3.5 gr Accurate No 5
Notes: Arsenal Mold 98 gr LSWC Charter Arms Undercoverette 2 inch
Shots: 6
Average: 726 ft/s
SD: 15 ft/s
Min: 701 ft/s
Max: 753 ft/s
Spread: 52 ft/s
Power Factor Average: 71
Power Factor Low: 68
Power Factor High: 73
Barometric Pressure: 30.3 in Hg
Temperature: 58F
Weight: 98 gr.
Powder : 3.5 gr Accurate No 5
Primer : CCI 500
Bullet : Arsenal Mold 32 cal 98 gr Keith
C.O.L.: 1.400
Trim to Length : 1.065
Name: 32 H&R Mag 3.4 gr Accurate No 5
Notes: Arsenal Mold 98 gr LSWC Charter Arms Undercoverette 2 inch
Shots: 6
Average: 695 ft/s
SD: 7 ft/s
Min: 690 ft/s
Max: 707 ft/s
Spread: 17 ft/s
Power Factor Average: 68
Power Factor Low: 67
Power Factor High: 69
Barometric Pressure: 30.3 in Hg
Temperature: 59F
Weight: 98 gr.
Powder : 3.4 gr Accurate No 5
Primer : CCI 500
Bullet : Arsenal Mold 32 cal 98 gr Keith
C.O.L.: 1.400
Trim to Length : 1.065
Name: 32 H&R Mag 3.3 gr Accurate No 5
Notes: Arsenal Mold 98 gr LSWC Charter Arms Undercoverette 2 inch
Shots: 5
Average: 660 ft/s
SD: 5 ft/s
Min: 652 ft/s
Max: 666 ft/s
Spread: 14 ft/s
Power Factor Average: 64
Power Factor Low: 63
Power Factor High: 65
Barometric Pressure: 30.3 in Hg
Temperature: 59F
Weight: 98 gr.
Powder : 3.3 gr Accurate No 5
Primer : CCI 500
Bullet : Arsenal Mold 32 cal 98 gr Keith
C.O.L.: 1.400
Trim to Length : 1.065
Name: 32 H&R Mag 3.2 gr Accurate No 5
Notes: Arsenal Mold 98 gr LSWC Charter Arms Undercoverette 2 inch
Shots: 6
Average: 643 ft/s
SD: 10 ft/s
Min: 628 ft/s
Max: 657 ft/s
Spread: 29 ft/s
Power Factor Average: 63
Power Factor Low: 61
Power Factor High: 64
Barometric Pressure: 30.3 in Hg
Temperature: 59F
Weight: 98 gr.
Powder : 3.2 gr Accurate No 5
Primer : CCI 500
Bullet : Arsenal Mold 32 cal 98 gr Keith
C.O.L.: 1.400
Trim to Length : 1.065
Name: 32 H&R Mag 3.1 gr Accurate No 5
Notes: Arsenal Mold 98 gr LSWC Charter Arms Undercoverette 2 inch
Shots: 5
Average: 650 ft/s
SD: 11 ft/s
Min: 638 ft/s
Max: 671 ft/s
Spread: 33 ft/s
Power Factor Average: 63
Power Factor Low: 62
Power Factor High: 65
Barometric Pressure: 30.3 in Hg
Temperature: 59F
Weight: 98 gr.
Powder : 3.1 gr Accurate No 5
Primer : CCI 500
Bullet : Arsenal Mold 32 cal 98 gr Keith
C.O.L.: 1.140
Trim to Length : 1.065
When reading Lyman's book I noticed that the powder charges for the Saeco #326 100 gr semi-wadcutter, using Accurate No 5, was the same for 32 S&W Long and 32 H&R Mag. The book shows different, higher velocities in the 32 Mag. Noted they used a 4" revolver for the S&W testing and used a 5" Universal Receiver for 32 Mag.
I could not understand how using a larger case volume with the same powder charge would give higher velocities. So I wrote to Lyman and asked. This was the conversation
I have a copy of the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook, 4th Edition which I assume is the 10th printing.
I am relatively new to hand loading and I've just gotten my first bullet mold in 32 caliber. I was looking at two loads you have listed and Ive encountered something I do not understand and were hoping you could explain them to me. These are loads for the 32 S&W Long and the 32 H&R Magnum. They are on pages 239 and 241. Both of these loads are using the Saeco #326 mold. Both loads use Accurate #5 powder.
For the 32 S&W Long you show a starting load of 3.1 grains of powder with a starting velocity of 627 feet per second. The maximum load is shown to be 3.6 grains of powder with a velocity of 733 feet per second.
The 32 H&R Magnum shows a starting load of 3.1 gr with a starting velocity of 821 ft/sec. The max load is shown to be 3.6 gr with a velocity of 893 ft/sec. This load is also show to be the most accurate.
Aside from the case length, I do not see any difference between these two loads. I would expect to see the 32 H&R Magnum to have greater powder charges to achieve greater velocities. With the lesser case volume of the 32 S&W Long, I would expect higher pressures for the same charge, thus creating higher velocities.
While not exactly the same, I notice a similar condition when using Titegroup powder. For the 32 S&W Long the starting and max powder charges are 1.8 gr @ 628 ft/sec and max 2.1 @ 742 ft/sec. The 32 H&R Magnum is shown to be starting 1.9 gr at 815 ft/sec and max 2.2 gr at 892 ft/sec. Will 0.1 gr of powder in a larger case really cause almost 200 ft/sec difference at the starting charge value?
Ive been discussing these loads on the Stopping Power web forum. Folks there cant explain these differences to me. Someone suggested that there might be a misprint in the handbook. Can you please confirm that the published loads are correct and, if so, explain what happens that causes the same powder charges producing different results between cartridges?
Thanks for your help.
Bill
Hello William,
We agree that the velocities do look a little odd, but we confirmed that these were the correct numbers received during testing. There are a couple of factors that came into play however. One, was that the barrel on the 32 H&R was 1 longer than the 32 S&W. A larger factor however is that our 32 H&R test barrel does not have a cylinder gap were as the S&W revolver used in the 32 S&W data does. A barrel with no cylinder gap will maintain pressure longer and produce higher velocities. We will make a note on this however and recheck the data when were able.
Best Regards,
Customer Service
Lyman Products / Raytech Industries
475 Smith Street, Middletown, CT 06457
Phone: 800-225-9626
Email: Customerservice@Lymanproducts.com
I've just finished measuring my 32 Mag loads. This was a Brass Arsenal Mold .32 98 Gr SWC Keith. I powder coated using Powder By The Pound. These were fired from a Charter Arms Undercoverette with 2" barrel. Starline brass. Accurate No 5 powder. CCI 500 primer. Load data was from the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook, 4th Edition; Saeco #326 100 gr. ProChrono chronograph.
I cast the bullets used in the 32 S&W test and the 32 Mag test at the same time. The powder and primers came from the same packaging in both cases. As I expected the 32 Mag loads did not show higher velocities compared to 32 S&W. I used the same revolver for both measurements.
These are my results:
Name: 32 H&R Mag 3.6 gr Accurate No 5
Notes: Arsenal Mold 98 grain LSWC Charter Arms Undercoverette 2 inch
Shots: 6
Average: 723 ft/s
SD: 10 ft/s
Min: 707 ft/s
Max: 733 ft/s
Spread: 26 ft/s
Power Factor Average: 70
Power Factor Low: 69
Power Factor High: 71
Barometric Pressure: 30.3 in Hg
Temperature: 58F
Weight: 98 gr.
Powder : 3.6 gr Accurate No 5
Primer : CCI 500
Bullet : Arsenal Mold 32 cal 98 gr Keith
C.O.L.: 1.400
Trim to Length : 1.065
Name: 32 H&R Mag 3.5 gr Accurate No 5
Notes: Arsenal Mold 98 gr LSWC Charter Arms Undercoverette 2 inch
Shots: 6
Average: 726 ft/s
SD: 15 ft/s
Min: 701 ft/s
Max: 753 ft/s
Spread: 52 ft/s
Power Factor Average: 71
Power Factor Low: 68
Power Factor High: 73
Barometric Pressure: 30.3 in Hg
Temperature: 58F
Weight: 98 gr.
Powder : 3.5 gr Accurate No 5
Primer : CCI 500
Bullet : Arsenal Mold 32 cal 98 gr Keith
C.O.L.: 1.400
Trim to Length : 1.065
Name: 32 H&R Mag 3.4 gr Accurate No 5
Notes: Arsenal Mold 98 gr LSWC Charter Arms Undercoverette 2 inch
Shots: 6
Average: 695 ft/s
SD: 7 ft/s
Min: 690 ft/s
Max: 707 ft/s
Spread: 17 ft/s
Power Factor Average: 68
Power Factor Low: 67
Power Factor High: 69
Barometric Pressure: 30.3 in Hg
Temperature: 59F
Weight: 98 gr.
Powder : 3.4 gr Accurate No 5
Primer : CCI 500
Bullet : Arsenal Mold 32 cal 98 gr Keith
C.O.L.: 1.400
Trim to Length : 1.065
Name: 32 H&R Mag 3.3 gr Accurate No 5
Notes: Arsenal Mold 98 gr LSWC Charter Arms Undercoverette 2 inch
Shots: 5
Average: 660 ft/s
SD: 5 ft/s
Min: 652 ft/s
Max: 666 ft/s
Spread: 14 ft/s
Power Factor Average: 64
Power Factor Low: 63
Power Factor High: 65
Barometric Pressure: 30.3 in Hg
Temperature: 59F
Weight: 98 gr.
Powder : 3.3 gr Accurate No 5
Primer : CCI 500
Bullet : Arsenal Mold 32 cal 98 gr Keith
C.O.L.: 1.400
Trim to Length : 1.065
Name: 32 H&R Mag 3.2 gr Accurate No 5
Notes: Arsenal Mold 98 gr LSWC Charter Arms Undercoverette 2 inch
Shots: 6
Average: 643 ft/s
SD: 10 ft/s
Min: 628 ft/s
Max: 657 ft/s
Spread: 29 ft/s
Power Factor Average: 63
Power Factor Low: 61
Power Factor High: 64
Barometric Pressure: 30.3 in Hg
Temperature: 59F
Weight: 98 gr.
Powder : 3.2 gr Accurate No 5
Primer : CCI 500
Bullet : Arsenal Mold 32 cal 98 gr Keith
C.O.L.: 1.400
Trim to Length : 1.065
Name: 32 H&R Mag 3.1 gr Accurate No 5
Notes: Arsenal Mold 98 gr LSWC Charter Arms Undercoverette 2 inch
Shots: 5
Average: 650 ft/s
SD: 11 ft/s
Min: 638 ft/s
Max: 671 ft/s
Spread: 33 ft/s
Power Factor Average: 63
Power Factor Low: 62
Power Factor High: 65
Barometric Pressure: 30.3 in Hg
Temperature: 59F
Weight: 98 gr.
Powder : 3.1 gr Accurate No 5
Primer : CCI 500
Bullet : Arsenal Mold 32 cal 98 gr Keith
C.O.L.: 1.140
Trim to Length : 1.065