Polish a Lee mold?

[dearslayer]

Recently purchased a Lee TL 452-230-2R mold and yesterday was only the 2nd time using it. I never paid too close attention the 1st time I used it but did notice that some of the Micro bans on the dropped boolits were less than perfect. I put it down to my casting abilities. Yesterday I decided to give it another go. I'm not happy with the boolits at all. I think it's too late to complain to the place of purchase and I'm sure if I did they will just say send it to Lee which isn't worth it plus I've had it for 2 months now. The flaw is in the Micro groove right at the end of the cut on a couple holes. Like material wasn't removed and it's causing diviots in the dropped boolits. Is there an easy fix such as polishing? If so what would be the best way.

[country gent]

I would send lee detailed pictures and description first and see what happens. They may replace it. Actually a couple pics of the flaw would help here also.

If you do decide to try it yourself I would first start with a sharp point in a soft material brass or aluminum even a hard plastic and firmly pull it thru the grooves by jand it may be fine burrs rolled over into the grooves. If you have a magnifier this will help see whats going on also.

You could very carefully work the edges with a die riffle. this will be slow tedious work.1 groove at a time and to a precise form.

Last would be to carefully lapp the mould using bullets and fine compound. This s going to be hard not removing over the hole cavity and increasing size.

Are you tumble lubing or pc if pc ream the grooves out

[GregLaROCHE]

As Country gent said, consider contacting Lee. They have a good reputation for standing by their products, even if they weren’t just purchased.

[dearslayer]

I think perhaps I will contact Lee to see what they have to say. Don't want to take a chance in messing it up completely. Given the fact that it's only my second time using it they may help me out. Also I am powder coating.

[schutzen-jager]

hope you have better luck with Lee customer service than my recent dealings with them - it was a horror story + after 3 + decades i will never buy another Lee product -

[mdi]

Yep. See what Lee has to say. I'd inspect the cavities with a strong light and my magnifying visor, perhaps a burr or defect that can be removed. I have polished a few molds, I used a paste made with Comet cleanser and oil on a lap cast from the mold. Won't remove metal and polished aluminum up nice.

It's a shame that some people jump at every chance to bash Lee...:groner:

[schutzen-jager]

Yep. See what Lee has to say. I'd inspect the cavities with a strong light and my magnifying visor, perhaps a burr or defect that can be removed. I have polished a few molds, I used a paste made with Comet cleanse and oil on a lap cast from the mold. Won't remove metal and polished aluminum up nice.

It's a shame that some people jump at every chance to bash Lee...:groner:

not a bashing , but a truthful fact based on actual experience - recently documented on other recent posts here + on many other forums about Lee customer service recent declines - by numerous other posters -

[mdi]

I have been using Lee tools since 1969. I have seen all the Lee Haters on line and perhaps I'm just lucky, but I have not been able to duplicate every Lee complaint I see. Perhaps because I am fairly mechanically inclined (life long machinist/mechanic) and do read instructions 98% of my Lee tools are trouble free. What little Lee customer service I have needed (once or at most twice total) went smoothly and professionally, as good as any reloading vendor.

I worked at a large city utilities department as a Heavy Equipment Electrician/Mechanic and saw first hand "tool snobs". Their complaints about tools not of their choosing were 80% ego and 19% ignorance ("If it ain't Snap-On [or whatever tool manufacturer he chose] it's junk"). I see a lot of the same attitude on reloading forums (If it ain't RCBS [or whatever the complainant uses] it's junk). Yeah, I sometimes get my panties in a bunch reading Lee Haters complaints not because of my tool choices, but new reloaders may read the drivel and believe it...

My apologies to the forum for my rant, I just forget that reloading doesn't need intelligence...

[Gtek]

If you can measure and confirm not concentric I would believe they would allow return. Even the best of them lets a pooch out now and then. Sounds like a multi hole, problem is you fix them up polishing and then how different are they hole to hole would be my concern.

[shaune509]

+1, MDI you are so right.
Shaune509

[country gent]

I feel its more important to help the gentleman fix his problem rather than bash lee equipment or his choices. After seeing out sourced parts come in wrong, tooling bought in good faith not work its apparent that any shop can have an oops. I will say 90*+ of the Lee equipment I have worked as advertised.

[megasupermagnum]

Before contacting Lee, are you absolutely sure the mold is the problem? Can we get some pictures of the bullets and mold where you believe the issue to be?

[Bloodman14]

Another Lee fan, here. Yes, pics would help us to diagnose the issue.

[bedbugbilly]

J understand your description - and "pardon my complaining" - I have been casting for 60 some years - have a collection of multi brand molds - including Lee - and I have had one bad experience with a Lee mold that should never have left the factory or passed QC - it happens and it can happen with any brand of mold. That said . . .

I have a number of tumble lube groove molds - Lee and other brands. I have found that while most very well, several are a bit quirky when it comes to the lube bands. This is just a suggestion . . . try another cast session and bump your pot temperature up. The several molds that I have that are quirky need to be run hotter so that the lube rings get good fill out - I use a pot and a bottom pour Lyman dipper and one of them - a .32 mod - requires increased heat and I hold the spout of the ladle higher when pouring and let the lead fork a larger sprue which fills the rings out nicely. Worth a try and if it doesn't work . . then give Lee a call, e-mail the some photos of the cavities and the boolits and see what they say.

Good luck.

[waksupi]

I'm not sure which sub-forum it is in, but Oldfeller did a good tutorial on tuning up Lee molds some years back. It is a sticky, so shouldn't be too hard to find.

[derek45]

hope you have better luck with Lee customer service than my recent dealings with them - it was a horror story + after 3 + decades i will never buy another Lee product -


yep

OP, if “Brenda” answers the call, hang up and try again

LOL

[schutzen-jager]

yep

OP, if “Brenda” answers the call, hang up and try again

LOL

derek45 i totally agree !! in the past i had good opinions of Lee's treatment of customers , but that no longer exists due to my latest experiences -

[tacofrank]

I just bought a Lee six cavity mold from Midway that had two undersized cavities and Midway said to erturn it for an exchange or refund. Four day turn around. The company you bought your's from might do the same? Worth a call or email.
Good Luck,
TF

[dearslayer]

I did send Lee and email earlier this morning while at work. A gentleman named Andy did return my email. He also said he saw this thread on Cast Boolits. I did send him photos of the mold and also some dropped boolits ( I'll post here later when I have a chance) and he seems to think that it's soldered tin on the grooves of the mold which in my opinion is very much possible. I'm going to gently try to remove it and if I can't he said to send it back to Lee.

[dearslayer]

These are the photos I sent Lee. I assume it's safe to say these boolits should go back into the pot even if powder coating?305830305831305832305833

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[Dusty Bannister]

Are the alignment pins engaging fully to prevent the twisting of the blocks? Perhaps the retaining pin is not holding the blocks securely to the handles and has too much flop?

[dearslayer]

Putting it together and everything is nice and tight and lines up. I just used a pick and some 400 Emery cloth to gently "scape and smooth each groove where it looked like there may have been some "tin". I'm hopeful that I got it all. It looks good under the magnifying glass but I won't know for sure until I cast again.
305834

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[dearslayer]

I think it looks better under Super Macro photos. Cleaner than it was for sure. Sorry for all the photos compared to the original photos I think it looks better no? 305835305836305837305838305839305840305841

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[35 Rem]

I would expect that to melt and come off on it's own myself but guess not if it survived you casting bullets with it. Did you let the mold sit in the molten alloy in the pot until no alloy stuck to the bottom? It's hard to believe any metal that bullets would be cast from would not melt if doing that. It does look like metal stuck on the side of the cavities though and not a defect from manufacturing.

[35 Rem]

Sorry, didn't realize you had updated the discussion since I had looked at your original pictures. It does look clear of any foreign material now. Should cast good bullets.

[jaysouth]

Will Titan take back a bad Lee mold?

[country gent]

Glad to see your making progress.

[megasupermagnum]

Whoa, easy with the emery cloth. Your mold looks fine. That build up doesn't look like a defective mold to me. That looks like lead build up, possibly from using too hot a pot temp, possibly from something odd in the alloy like zinc, and maybe some other reason. It could just be bad luck. I don't think the mold is at fault. Hopefully the problem doesn't return now that you sanded it.

In the future if you see something like that, espcially in your vent lines, the best fix I've found is to get your mold up to temp, then take a wood tooth pick and carefully clean with that.

[bedbugbilly]

jay south - ref: "will Titan take back a bad mold."

I have always used Titan when ordering Lee stuff because they are a sponsor here and Dave gives excellent service. Quite a while back, I ordered a 2 cavity mold from Titan. When it arrived, it was terrible - cavities were somehow machined "offset" of each other when the blocks were closed and block surfaces lined up - plus, the alignment pins were not installed correctly and barely extended into the opposing holes in the other half of the block. I notified Titan and they asked me to send photos to them, which I did, and they even forwarded them to Lee IIRC. Lee evidently told them to have me contact their CS - which I did. The clown I talked torn their CS, who had the photos, proceeded to tell me "you just don't know how to cast". Hmmm . . my reply was that I guess I"ve been doing it all wrong for over 50 years (at that time). The guy had an arrogant attitude and said I could return it to them on my dime but that there was nothing wrong with it as their molds were "high quality". I wnsws up hanging up on the guy and then e-mailed Titan and told Dave what the response was. I'm sure that I could have returned the mold to Titan - but - I was in business alley life and I knew that it would probably be Titan who would be eating the mold and not Lee. The mold was a $19.95 or so mold at the time an I figured that it wasn't worth the headache to mail it back to Titan and have them have to deal with it - and I refused to let it alter my opinion of Titan as they have always been excellent in their service . . . Lee? That's another thing and that experience soured me on their CS. Now, if I buy a Lee mold from Titan, it's because I want to try the boolit design. IF I buy a Lee mold, I buy it from Titan and ask them to check the mold, the cavities and alignment before shipping it. I know that they do check it as when the mold arrives, it is evident that the tape )on a 2 cavity) has been broken and they have checked it before sending it. I just ordered and received ed a 6 cavity 225-55 gr. Lee mold from Titan as I wanted to speed up the casting of them for my 223 - it arrived and when I checked the mold out, I can tell that they took the time to check it before sending it - again - I chalk that up to their excellent service.

I don't know anything about Lee's situation, but, if they are having as much problems as many other companies are having in getting materials and getting employees that will show up and actually work, then there may well be some quality control issues to be expected. That doesn't make it "right", but the way things are so screwed up right now, that's the way it is and I'll just leave it at that so this doesn't get political.

[dearslayer]

Whoa, easy with the emery cloth. Your mold looks fine. That build up doesn't look like a defective mold to me. That looks like lead build up, possibly from using too hot a pot temp, possibly from something odd in the alloy like zinc, and maybe some other reason. It could just be bad luck. I don't think the mold is at fault. Hopefully the problem doesn't return now that you sanded it.

In the future if you see something like that, espcially in your vent lines, the best fix I've found is to get your mold up to temp, then take a wood tooth pick and carefully clean with that.

Most everything came off with the pick. The Emery cloth was basically just to get the remaining high spots. No material was removed from the mold itself.

[fredj338]

Lee QC just sucks. I have a couple great 6cav from them & a couple dogs. Unless just getting started, I recommend a quality molds from Accurate or NOE or Arsenal.

[WRideout]

Some time ago, I acquired a used Lee 30 cal mold from a member here. It did not cast well, and appeared to not be venting like it should. Since I had not seen the advice on using a soft pick to clean up a mold, I attacked the vent lines with a steel scalpel (sound of palm hitting forehead.) After I had messed it up quite good, I let it sit idle for a while while I considered what to do. My 91-30 Russian needed a slightly larger boolit anyway, so I Beagled the mold per the excellent instructions found on the forum. The heavens opened up, angels descended, the mold worked as it should!

Wayne

[technojock]

Perhaps I'm a bit pessimistic but I always assume any new mold I buy will need to be lapped. I'm sure I've lapped a couple that probably didn't really need it but I've always been happy with the results of 320 and 600 grit lapping. The 2 Lee molds I bought this past week were both shiny inside. I haven't used the 9mm mold yet but the .309" 180g RN mold seems to be working pretty good. I had to cast about 30 bad ones before I got clean, usable boolits and I'm picky about surface flaws. BTW, I cleaned the mold with acetone before I started using it.

Last night while I plugged in the pot while I was finishing up work for my business and by the time my back was hurting and I called it quits, I had 57 good boolits. I hope they shoot well from my Swiss K31. I plan to use Ed Harris' load data for #2400 rifle powder...

It's nice not to have to lap a mold but I might anyway. :)

Tony

[dearslayer]

Perhaps I'm a bit pessimistic but I always assume any new mold I buy will need to be lapped. I'm sure I've lapped a couple that probably didn't really need it but I've always been happy with the results of 320 and 600 grit lapping. The 2 Lee molds I bought this past week were both shiny inside. I haven't used the 9mm mold yet but the .309" 180g RN mold seems to be working pretty good. I had to cast about 30 bad ones before I got clean, usable boolits and I'm picky about surface flaws. BTW, I cleaned the mold with acetone before I started using it.

Last night while I plugged in the pot while I was finishing up work for my business and by the time my back was hurting and I called it quits, I had 57 good boolits. I hope they shoot well from my Swiss K31. I plan to use Ed Harris' load data for #2400 rifle powder...

It's nice not to have to lap a mold but I might anyway. :)

Tony

Would you mind describing a little more in-depth your process for lapping the mold. After cleaning up the mold and smoking it as advised by the Lee rep I tried casting about another 500 boolits today. I would say approximately 20 to 30% have to go back into the pot due to incomplete or misformed micro grooves. I think at this point I may end up just sending it back to Lee precision to get their opinion on it. It's turning out to be very frustrating.

[technojock]

I'm not sure that lapping would help micro grooves and it might just remove them. I gave away the one mold that I had with micro grooves. It was a Lee 9mm truncated cone tumble lube design. I never could get a good boolit from that mold. That was a long time ago and I don't recall if I tried lapping it.

What I do is cast until I get a couple boolits that fill out the mold. Then with the boolits still in the mold, I push back the sprue plate and drill a centered hole in the base of the boolits just deep enough for a self tapping screw to take hold. With a screw in the base of the boolits, I open the molds and put a little lapping compound in one side of the mold, close it then work the boolits back and forth by hand with a screwdriver. I open check and clean the mold with paper towels from time to time. I add more lapping compound as needed and lap some more.

When I think I've done as much as I can, I clean the mold and cast some more. If I'm not happy with what I got, I repeat the process. I start with 320 grit compound and finish with 600 grit. Those are the 2 that I keep on hand. This can take a long time and it's a labor of love so for me it's worth it.

I think automotive valve lapping compound while easier to find, is to aggressive for aluminum mold. On the other hand I have one mold I'm about ready to toss, and I plan to use valve lapping compound on that one... My method isn't going to increase the diameter of the boolit very much and the one time it was my goal to do so, I only increased it by about .0006 but does it ever shine. That mold a .430 RN, tosses the prettiest boolits I cast.

Tony

[dearslayer]

I'm not sure that lapping would help micro grooves and it might just remove them. I gave away the one mold that I had with micro grooves. It was a Lee 9mm truncated cone tumble lube design. I never could get a good boolit from that mold. That was a long time ago and I don't recall if I tried lapping it.

What I do is cast until I get a couple boolits that fill out the mold. Then with the boolits still in the mold, I push back the sprue plate and drill a centered hole in the base of the boolits just deep enough for a self tapping screw to take hold. With a screw in the base of the boolits, I open the molds and put a little lapping compound in one side of the mold, close it then work the boolits back and forth by hand with a screwdriver. I open check and clean the mold with paper towels from time to time. I add more lapping compound as needed and lap some more.

When I think I've done as much as I can, I clean the mold and cast some more. If I'm not happy with what I got, I repeat the process. I start with 320 grit compound and finish with 600 grit. Those are the 2 that I keep on hand. This can take a long time and it's a labor of love so for me it's worth it.

I think automotive valve lapping compound while easier to find, is to aggressive for aluminum mold. On the other hand I have one mold I'm about ready to toss, and I plan to use valve lapping compound on that one... My method isn't going to increase the diameter of the boolit very much and the one time it was my goal to do so, I only increased it by about .0006 but does it ever shine. That mold a .430 RN, tosses the prettiest boolits I cast.

Tony

Thanks so much for the follow up. I'm not too impressed with this mold either. Not so much for the issue I'm having which may not be the fault of the mold itself. I'm just not liking the micro grooves and if I had my time back I would have went with a different design.

[megasupermagnum]

You gave it a solid go, and you didn't like the results. There's nothing wrong with that, we've all been there. I don't like the Lee micro groove bullets either, not because they wouldn't cast good, but because they do not offer anything a standard bullet doesn't do better. Even when tumble lubing, I do better with a standard bullet.

[john.k]

Ive got a 312/185 Lee mould that doesnt cast round bullets........however ,as I have the technology (small hole mics) I checked the cavities mould closed......perfectly round as you might expect.........I may be dumping the casts a little too quick,or my metal may be too hot..........i know I had a lot of fails with big bullets from not allowing sufficient setting ..............hot cast metal that appears set may be soft and mushy

[technojock]

You gave it a solid go, and you didn't like the results. There's nothing wrong with that, we've all been there. I don't like the Lee micro groove bullets either, not because they wouldn't cast good, but because they do not offer anything a standard bullet doesn't do better. Even when tumble lubing, I do better with a standard bullet.

I've found that Lee RN handgun boolit molds generally work very well. At least all the ones I have do. I've polished a couple of them but most of the time, it was for easier drop or to try and increase diameter.

Tony

[Kosh75287]

I hope this question doesn't sound silly (well, not TOO silly anyway), but were any of the "misshapen" bullets lubed or PC'd and shot? I can see why the caster/reloader might think they would not shoot well, as cast. Actual results can sometimes belie appearances, and the converse.
Just wondering.

[charlie b]

The good thing is that Lee molds are relatively inexpensive, which is why I have bought so many over the years. You can try out certain ones without a big outlay in dollars.

I also tried the tumble lube designs and really don't care for them. I keep the mold (.45 200SWC) because they are 'easy' to cast and lube. They do like to be hot when casting.

Try using a hot plate for the mold. I usually set mine so the molds are a little too hot, then let the casting process 'cool' them.

Before I give up on a mold I try using a known alloy. For me it is Lyman #2. Known for good casting ability and is medium hard. No quenching.

PS lapping will not remove the grooves in the mold. The process is usually used to remove 0.001" or so. Very fine compound.

[country gent]

Heres how I lap a mould, you can increase size, improve finish and improve roundness

Cast a few bullets id a multi cavity mould label as to cavity
when mould has cooed reinsert into cavity and drill hole using the sprue plate to spot them. I use a piece of 1/8" key stock for a stem so the hoe needs to be the size corner to corner. epoxy this into the bullets
These are now your laps to polish the mould out
Depending on what you want to do start with 180-240 to increase size 240-320 to improve roundness 600 up to polish.
impregnate a bullet with the desired compound by giving a light coat and roll between 2 flat plates
Insert in cavity gently and carefully close blocks. Use a tap handle to drive and turn 1/2 turn back and forth 3-4 times rotate 90* and repeat thru 2-3 full rotations. do the next cavity if there is one. Continue to where the finish is even and go to next grit
When finish/pattern look good clean and cast some bullets.
When finishing dont add more compound just a small drop of oil the compound breaks down to finer grits giving the finish the oi will clean and sharpen this.
Work slow and easy

The easiest way to check progress is to clean and cast some bullets to measure inspect

You will feel the changes taking place as you lap the blocks the lap turning easier and smoother as you go

I prefer silicon carbide grits over aluminium oxide as it breaks down faster and stays sharper longer. For final finish diamond paste does an amazing job.

When lapping to increase size roundness you may have to cast new lapps part way thru to get them back up to size

[Mint]

I hope this question doesn't sound silly (well, not TOO silly anyway), but were any of the "misshapen" bullets lubed or PC'd and shot? I can see why the caster/reloader might think they would not shoot well, as cast. Actual results can sometimes belie appearances, and the converse.
Just wondering.

Yo PMs is Full :smile::!:

[dearslayer]

I hope this question doesn't sound silly (well, not TOO silly anyway), but were any of the "misshapen" bullets lubed or PC'd and shot? I can see why the caster/reloader might think they would not shoot well, as cast. Actual results can sometimes belie appearances, and the converse.
Just wondering.
I did not powder coat and shoot any of these dropped boolits. I was under the impression the the micro grooves had to be perfectly cast and sharp in order to seal properly in the barrel. A lot of the boolits from my cast on Sunday were not anywhere close to being what I thought to be a shootable boolit. I'm sure they would go bang and go down range but I'm not sure that accuracy would be what it should be compared to a perfectly cast projectile. Besides the OCD in me likes things to be as they should be. I'm gonna package the mold up tonight and take it to the post office in the morning. I'll decide if I'll send it to Lee once they quote me a price. I live in Ontario Canada so it may not be cost effective to send it back to the US considering what a new mold cost. If I know Canada Post it will cost more to send it than what it's worth but I guess I'll see in the morning.

[john.k]

Big surprise I got after casting for 60 years was my lead was not hot enough.......gift of a IR thermometer set me right ........I never had problems with big bullets,but attempts to cast 22s were a fail......lead was too cold .

[megasupermagnum]

Don't waste your money sending it back to Lee. There is nothing wrong with that mold. If you can't get it to cast good, either sell it or keep it. Try it again another day. Sometimes we all have bad days where all we cast is scrap no matter what.