Lead haul #2 from favorite seller

[Rickf1985]

Some of you may remember I hit the jackpot back in January or February of this year with a haul of 1500 lbs. of all lead wheel weights and another 500 lbs. of assorted large ingots of lino and tin. Well, That same seller had a lot of stuff left over in the form of ingots and "Scrap" in trash cans and a bunch of lead pipe. I finally found time to go up there today and bout all the rest of the "Scrap" and all the lead pipe. Someone else had already snagged the ingots. I hope if they read this they already know those ingots were mostly wheel weights! So I came home today with 1250 lbs. of lead hoping most of it was dead soft since I already have a bit over a ton of wheel weights. Weeeellllll, No, I have probably 200 lbs. of linotype and another 100 lbs. of what I suspect is tin! I have a bunch of pictures I am going to have to resize to put on here but I am going to need some help with some of this stuff. I had mentioned before that this young man bought all this lead from the estate of an old reloader so it was all good stuff. But the young man did not know what he had so he didn't keep it in order when he picked it up. Some of it is marked obviously and other stuff seems to be coded. I am going to buy a Cabine tree tester and see what I have with that and then decide what to send to BNE. So give me a bit to get the pics ready to go and you will see what I got but meanwhile, what is Gardiner Hexbar? I have 30-40 lbs. of that in short sections.

[rancher1913]

i generally stay away from ingots at the scrap yard, lots of times the makers mixed to much foreign stuff in it. if you can get it checked its not a problem.

[Rickf1985]

This was NOT a scrap yard. This all came from the estate of a deceased reloader so I know it was all good stuff and I have not been proven wrong.
Here are the links to the first loads.
This is the first haul and the pics start at post #40, I added the second wheel weight run onto that thread.
https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?436332-Price-to-pay-for-WW-and-Linotype/page2
This was the second wheel weight run.
https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?436863-Todays-haul

So no, this is not scrap lead from the yard. It is all quality lead.

[Soundguy]

Congrats ��

[Rickf1985]

As promised, here are some pics.
I suspect that these ingots could be pure tin. Note the S stamped in the end and the shine to them even sitting in a bucket full of dirty water, lead and crap.
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Everything from where that little piece of solder is sitting sideways towards the right I suspect is pure tin.
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Some of the markings I have found on the next three.
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The foundry shaped bars all ring like a church bell when hit with a small hammer
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All suspected tin
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Another form of marking, 13oz. 50/50
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These ring very clearly, can anyone tell me anything from the brand names?
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Unfortunately this pic does not show all the sparkling crystals in the break. The next pic is the same type of ingot but a whole one with brand. Again, any ideas?
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This is very soft, I am assuming since it was with the pipe that it is a joint seal of some type?
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And a shot of the total take with the last two being the Gardinar Hexbar I am trying to figure out. I Googled it and came up with a bunch of weightlifting bars!
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[Rickf1985]

And can anyone make any sense of these numbers? Seems to me the PB should be higher and what is the first one?305741

[BIGOX]

Cu copper. It's some kind of hard copper alloy. Maybe Babbitt Bearing alloy of some type

[Dusty Bannister]

I could not find that exact mix but it appears to be a tin based Babbitt alloy. By the time you dilute it the copper will be a very small factor in actual use. I was looking at the Belmont site.

[Rickf1985]

I did not take the last can of linotype he had since I am fully loaded with hard lead. If anyone is in the NE Pa. region and is interested in this stuff it is a really good price. You will need to go there to get it. And yes, there are spacers in with the lino but from what I could tell these were hard lead spacers. I believe this was all sorted lead by hardness at one time.

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/856273515379113/?hoisted=false&ref=search&referral_code=null&referral_story_type=post&tracking=browse_serp%3A5f355cdb-6bdf-4ff0-b419-2df2e06ff779

[Rickf1985]

This may be wishful thinking but I "think" these ingots may be tin and I would like to find a simple way of checking them short of XRF testing. I am thinking that since they were cast in Lyman ingot molds and I have that exact same mold, can't I drop a few in my mold until I find one that is a perfect fit for a filled mold and then fill that same cavity with pure lead and compare weights? The tin would be substantially lighter but is there a formula that tells me how much lighter? The ingot molds are one pound molds so if I find the spot in the mold that makes a one pound lead ingot and then either find one of the ingots that fits that profile or recast one to the same line then I should be able to find the difference mathematically.
Note the "S" stamped on the ends of the ingots. This guy used a lot of short codes for his stuff and this is very shiny and one ingot is like 13 oz.
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[Soundguy]

tin should be harder than soft pure lead..but slightly softer than wheel weights... that help any?

[Rickf1985]

Yes and no, Pure lead is a BHN of 5 and tin is 7 so seeing the difference with my pick hammer test is not going to happen. ;). But I am going to be ordering a Cabine tree tester so I can go over a lot of this stuff before deciding what to send out for testing. I have separated most of the dead soft lead from another batch that is soft but not as soft, as the dead soft nor as hard as the wheel weights. The dead soft is getting melted down shortly to make space but the other stuff will wait for the tester. All those suspected tin strips that were poured into some sort of home made mold will be cast into Cast Boolits molds and marked as suspect tin and tested, again in the name of conserving space. All of the bigger ingots and chunks I am going to wait for the tester plus comments from members on here since that stuff all takes up little space when stacked up. I am getting way too old for this addiction!!!!!:groner:

[imashooter2]

I did not take the last can of linotype he had since I am fully loaded with hard lead. If anyone is in the NE Pa. region and is interested in this stuff it is a really good price. You will need to go there to get it. And yes, there are spacers in with the lino but from what I could tell these were hard lead spacers. I believe this was all sorted lead by hardness at one time.

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/856273515379113/?hoisted=false&ref=search&referral_code=null&referral_story_type=post&tracking=browse_serp%3A5f355cdb-6bdf-4ff0-b419-2df2e06ff779

That’s a shame. I drove right by there yesterday with money in my pocket and a buddy to help carry. :groner:

[Rickf1985]

If you drove by at around 10:00 I was there. 1 1/2 drive for me.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

This may be wishful thinking but I "think" these ingots may be tin and I would like to find a simple way of checking them short of XRF testing. I am thinking that since they were cast in Lyman ingot molds and I have that exact same mold, can't I drop a few in my mold until I find one that is a perfect fit for a filled mold and then fill that same cavity with pure lead and compare weights? The tin would be substantially lighter but is there a formula that tells me how much lighter? The ingot molds are one pound molds so if I find the spot in the mold that makes a one pound lead ingot and then either find one of the ingots that fits that profile or recast one to the same line then I should be able to find the difference mathematically.
Note the "S" stamped on the ends of the ingots. This guy used a lot of short codes for his stuff and this is very shiny and one ingot is like 13 oz.
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Here's my simple checkout.
Do you have a good thermometer?
Melt temp for pure Tin is 449.5°F
after you melt it, pour it on a concrete floor, so it's about 1/4" thick or so.
Pure tin will "Cry" when bent.

[Springfield]

If it is marked "S" it is probably solder. Send an ingot and a sample to BNE and then you will know. Just got back 7 tests myself, I hate guessing.

[imashooter2]

If you drove by at around 10:00 I was there. 1 1/2 drive for me.

I shot a steel match over Harrisburg way. I drove by about 11:00 on the way in and 6:00 on the way out.

[Keyman]

Well I use S on all my soft lead bars.

[Rickf1985]

I had someone mention "Solder" which makes a lot of sense considering the huge amount of solder I also got with all of this.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

like my other advice, if you have a good thermometer, you can figure out closely enough the percentages of your solder.

https://www.kester.com/knowledge-base/alloy-temperature-chart

[Rickf1985]

Never saw that chart before. Saved that one in my files, Thanks.

[technojock]

Good find. Around here the all available lead is snatched up quickly and resold in ingots for 2 to 3 bucks a pound. I'm glad I have enough for now as I'm not willing to pay that for unknown alloy...

Tony

[pworley1]

Congratulations!

[Rickf1985]

Good find. Around here the all available lead is snatched up quickly and resold in ingots for 2 to 3 bucks a pound. I'm glad I have enough for now as I'm not willing to pay that for unknown alloy...

Tony

Tony, I am a stickler for accuracy in everything I do so I have ordered a Cabine Tree tester and once it comes in I am going to separate out all the different types of lead by hardness into groups. dead soft is obvious and has already been smelted down into Cast Boolits ingots and marked. Then I will group lead that is say 10-12BHN and smelt that all together and so on throughout the pile. The ones I suspect as tin or high tin will be sent out for testing. The smelted groups will be marked for BHN and also then be sent out for testing so I have an exact composition on that group of ingots. I would not do this for 20 lbs. but considering I am going to have 3-400lbs. of each group I need to know what I have. Also, when I am gone or if I decide to sell then it is documented exactly what is what. This way there is no "buying an unknown alloy".

[Soundguy]

ditto on unknown allow.

A pawn shop down the road bough a bunch of relaod gear from an estate.. he has a pile of ingots that feel pretty hard and some of them ring. 2-3 different molds. one ingot is broken.. grain structure is odd.. looks like zinc.. it was a good price.. but is unknown. Heck.. could be bismuth.. there are plenty of shotgun reloaders in that area of town.. lots of ranges...

[shootinfox2]

And can anyone make any sense of these numbers? Seems to me the PB should be higher and what is the first one?305741

Looks like percentages.

[Rickf1985]

Got the tester is yesterday and went to work checking some of the questionable lead I had. I was looking for all soft lead in this purchase since I already have a ton of wheel weights and half again that of linotype but I am not going to complain about what I got. It looks like I am going to end up with about 400 lbs. of soft and the rest from 12 up to 30 plus BHN. Some of the bigger pieces like the one with all the percentages on it tested all over the place depending on where you tried it, a lot of that probably has to do with position and shape. I will melt them down as one batch into one pound ingots and check again. Same with a couple of the other large and inconsistent pieces.
I have noticed that the pics do not always show on the page in the right orientation, if you click on each one it comes up right.
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[lightman]

Nice Score! Looks like a lot of unknown but good stuff in there!

[Rickf1985]

I tested a lot of the stuff as you see there and then the really hard stuff and some of the medium stuff I also tested with my Lee tester. It was interesting that the softer stuff tracked just about dead even on both testers but on the hard stuff the Lee showed substantially lower numbers. Still in the 20-22 range but certainly not above 30 as the Cabine was showing. And the Cabine was very inconsistent on all those sample where the Lee was dead even on 4 tests of every sample. But this gives me a baseline for where most of this stuff falls into groups so now it gets smelted together with all the hard stuff going in one pot since it is all showing between 20 and 24. Close enough for me to blend it all together and then send in a sample to BNE. I noticed that the last 120 lbs of soft that I smelted into ingots had a little ring to it so I checked on of them and it came back as 10 BHN so I guess those two big chunks I tossed in were harder than I thought. I will simply pull that group out and box it in ammo cans and that will be marked for my 45 and 38 bullets as is. The rest is going to become ballast for the tractor for winter since my old ballast box rotted out. Now I can just weld up a quickie box and back the tractor up to the garage and start stacking ingots in the box. Throw a cover on the box and ready for snow. They are out of the garage, I don't have to carry them a hundred yards and come spring I can back the tractor right up to where they will be stored. MULTITASKING!

[Rickf1985]

Ok, My OCD got the best of me. I am one that likes to be accurate in what I do and when I have two lead hardness testers and they do not agree with each other on readings I feel like I am right back at square one. So I built my own tester. I have found it to be dead on with the Lee tester on just about every sample I have tested. So now I have two that agree and when I get the sample cleaner I will try them again with the Cabine tree tester but so far I am not real happy with that tester.
In the pics you will see I have a drill bit in the chuck, this was replaced by an upside down 5/32s drill filed to a ball end. The scale was only used to calibrate my weight pail for the exact 60lb. load. I will have to get a couple pics of it in action.
Not one pic loaded in the right orientation, please click on each one to see it correctly.

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[imashooter2]

LOL! “A man with a watch always knows what time it is. A man with 2 is never sure.” :drinks:

[Dusty Bannister]

Until you actually verify the accuracy by testing certified pure lead, Lyman #2 and linotype, you only have two measuring devises that agree, and one that does not. I do not recall the cabin tree unit requiring a dwell time before taking the reading on the indent. Setting the indent correctly is also critical for an accurate reading. As an example, Lyman #2 has an indent reading of .084-.086". Linotype has an indent reading of .086-.090". If you do not have clean samples, you could create an error in reading.

Both the Lee and the equipment you created require visual inspection to measure with a caliper or a micrometer to get the indent reading. Age and vision issues might influence the ability to get a clear reading on the measuring tool. You really do need to calibrate with known samples and not try to calibrate between two divices.

[boog]

I think those imperial bars are what they used to refresh Linotype. High antinomy and tin. I can't seem to find the info I found on it long ago when I found a couple bars of it.

[Rickf1985]

I do have a couple of known new (at one time new but never used) linotype pigs. I will test one of those with mine but I am not cutting the pigs up to test them with the others. As long as I know mine is accurate doing it the way I am that is good enough for what I am doing right now. I ordered some ball bearings before I even started on this because I originally planned to braze a 5/32 bearing to the bit to have the exact size called out. I also needed the bearing kit I ordered to repair a hydraulic valve on my tractor so I didn't buy a bunch of bearings just for this. But I will make up that bearing on another bit and compare them. I know what I have is dead on to the Lee so I am keeping that. I never expect to get lab quality specs from any of this equipment, mine or the stuff purchased. From the testing I have seen the Lee tester is right up at the top for accuracy but the downfall is the ease of use. IF, Big if here, IF you follow the directions the Lee tester is accurate.
That entire rig took me 20 minutes to build so I have little into it. Cost was three zip ties and scrap I had laying around. Setting it up was a bit of a pain because the string is to light and kept stretching and spinning. The first scale I tried to use was too touchy and would not settle down to get the 60 lb. calibration weight. But eventually I will need my drill press back so this is just a quick tester build. I will probably leave the wheel on there, it will actually make the press easier to use I think. Next time I set it up I will use paracord for the weight cord and I will record the amount of weight I am using so I can duplicate it the next time.

[Rickf1985]

I think those imperial bars are what they used to refresh Linotype. High antinomy and tin. I can't seem to find the info I found on it long ago when I found a couple bars of it.

Yes, someone else said the same thing and they test at 22 BHN so that makes sense. I will be keeping them out of the mix and sending in a sample.

[Dusty Bannister]

I think those imperial bars are what they used to refresh Linotype. High antinomy and tin. I can't seem to find the info I found on it long ago when I found a couple bars of it.

Linotype plus is 11-18-71 from some sources.