Fired the Type 38 Arisaka today -- did not tumble cast bullets!

[Dutchman]

Brief visit to the rifle range today to test fire .268" Ideal Loverin 266469. I was sure it was going to tumble these as it tumbles .266" cast bullets. Buy no.. it didn't tumble. I was amazed. Of course I couldn't really see if it was accurate because I FORGOT to install the rear sight!! So I faked it. I was more interested in seeing if the boolits would tumble. The load was 10 grs Unique with the boolits seated to touch the rifling. First time using LLA in rifle so I figured in a 30"/31" barrel I was better off with more instead of less. Didn't seem to hurt....

https://images34.fotki.com/v1681/photos/4/28344/16487259/IMG_0487X-vi.jpg (https://public.fotki.com/dutchman/arisaka/img-0487x.html)
Fired at 25 yds with no rear sight.
https://images34.fotki.com/v1681/photos/4/28344/16487259/T38X-vi.jpg (https://public.fotki.com/dutchman/arisaka/t38x.html)

https://images46.fotki.com/v1682/photos/4/28344/16487259/IMG_0488X-vi.jpg (https://public.fotki.com/dutchman/arisaka/img-0488x.html)

https://images12.fotki.com/v1677/photos/4/28344/16487259/20201117_201509vi-vi.jpg (https://public.fotki.com/dutchman/arisaka/20201117-201509-vi.html)

[avogunner]

A very timely post as I'll be doing the same thing later this weekend. I recently picked up "decent" Type 38 at an estate sale. By decent, I mean the bore isn't a complete sewer like my other Arisaka. I did have to do a bit of scrubbing but it's got strong rifling so I'm hoping my .267 sized boolits (266469) shoot ok. They tumble in the other 38 but we'll see what they do with this one.
I'll let you know.
Semper Fi

[pworley1]

Good start. Let us know what it does with the rear sight.

[stubshaft]

WOW! Five one hole groups:bigsmyl2:

[brstevns]

My 6.5 has a .268 bore as well. I size to .270 and it shoots very well. Around 2 inch at 100 yards.

[Uncle Grinch]

WOW! Five one hole groups:bigsmyl2:

Now that’s a POSITIVE attitude!

I like it.

[avogunner]

Ok, so I shot my "new" Type 38 yesterday with mixed results. Both boolets used were obtained here via the Boolit Exchange forum a few of years ago. One is the Lyman 266469 Loverin but the other I don't know what mold/mfgr it came from. It looks like a Lee but it's a 140gr and I thought their "cruise missiles were 170gr? Can anyone here ID it (see below)?
Anyway, both mic to .267 and for the most part didn't keyhole. I say for the most part because two of the Loverin did (curious).
I shot 10 of each with 19gr of IMR-4227 and got about a 6-7 inch group at 50yds. I am encouraged though and think maybe a .268 - .270 boolit would tighten that up. I don't have a 6.5 mold or sizer but I'm looking at the NOE 270-147-FN-D5 or possibly, the Lyman (or the unidentified) mold and then powder coat to increase diameter a couple of thou?
Here's a picture of the unidentified mold:
305700

Appreciate your thoughts.
Semper Fi.

[leadhead]

It looks like the Lee cruise missile that someone modified. (cut down)
I cut one down to 150 grains and it shoots very well in my Carcano's
and Swedes.
leadhead

[Rapier]

Slug the bore, slug the bore, slug the bore. size to the actual groove diameter or no more than .001 over. One of the reasons for shooting cast is to adjust to your actual groove size.

[Larry Gibson]

Your 6.5 T38 has a 9" twist and I suspect pushing the bullets with 19 gr 4227 is pushing them too fast in your longer barrel. You might try them at 1500 - 1800 fps.

The barrel on my T38, even though it was somewhat pitted and "dark", has a groove diameter of .266 as slugged. Cast bullet of .266 - .268 are about the same accuracy wise. I've used the 266455, the NOE 269-145 FN, the MP 268469, the 6.5 Kurtz and the Lee Cruize Missile. All except the CM (a waste of alloy and components IMHO) shot well in the 1500 - 1800 fps range.

[bedbugbilly]

avogunner - I also have one of the Lee cruise missile molds and I agree with leadhead - when I saw your photo, the my first thought was that it was from one of the Lee molds that had been cut milled down to decrease the bullet weight.

I have cast up about twenty or so to try but haven't loaded them yet. I was glad to read Larry's post stating his thoughts on the CM as it saves time in screwing around with them - back in the pot they go. I'm working with three other molds for my 38s but just haven't had the opportunity to try out what I've got loaded up.

I'm using Lyman/Ideal 266-324 (119 gr. PB - drop about 121 gr.), 266-455 that are driooubg about 130 gr and 266-469 - haven't cast then yet - forgot to bring a bag of casings when we left MI for AZ so have to wait until I try my other boolit weight test loads so I have empty casings or else scrounge up another 50 PPU casings.

Both of my 38s have nice bores and slug at .264 so I'm sizing at .266. My only hope is that with my old eyes and the sights on the 38 I can hit half as good as Dutch did without his rear sight! :-)

[avogunner]

Thanks for the comment's gents. So until I source a new mold, I have a few of those Loverin (and the unidentified) boolits left for a bit more testing. I'm going to follow Larry's advice and slow them down a bit. Lyman's #3 cast manual shows 14gr of 2400 to be at around 1500fps so that's a good place to start. I'll bring my chrono next time too... I do need to start keeping better notes.
I'll let you know how I do.
Semper Fi.

[iron brigade]

Here's a 100 yard group I shot with my type38 using Sr 4756 and Lyman 266673 powder coated. After pc the boolit is .269 diameter. Larry is right, slow it down and it will shoot.
10 grains of green dot is also an excellent load.
305960