Newbie question on 45 colt, and reloading for a Revolver vs Lever

[TheFlynn01]

Hey there folks, I was lucky enough to have Ruger blackhawk fall into my lap in 45 Colt. I have ben having fun plinking with it, and want to start casting for it. I also like the idea of having a matching lever gun, just seems like fun!

Without trying to sound too stupid, what sort of difference's should I consider with casting and reloading for a rifle and a revolver? I know that some powders burn better in shorter barrels vs longer and such, but I am all quite new to it. So I figured I would ask, mold recommendations and if I could make good revolver loads that would work in a lever gun as well. Part of me feels it should be fine, same caliber and all, but another part of me wonders about burn rates and pressure and such.

Anyway, thanks for reading and I look forward to some helpful advice!

[Super Sneaky Steve]

The blackhawk can take high pressures, just like your rifle. You haven't said what you want to do with it so load it however you like, but you'll want smooth feeding in the lever gun so take note of bullet shape and OAL.

[quilbilly]

I am using the same two loads and boolits in my Blackhawk and Henry, both target and heavies. No problems.

[mnewcomb59]

Your max size on your bullet will probably be smaller in the Blackhawk. If you have a SWC or any other design with a full diameter driving band outside of the case, you might need to size to .451. Chances are that 451 will not shoot that well and lead the throat on your rifle.

A lot of people on here get their Blackhawk throats opened up to at least .452. I am finding that my Marlin shoots plain base better with .454 and I have a few molds that still chamber in the Blackhawk and a few that don't at that size. I had all my throats opened up to .4525 by DougGuy, plus a little bit of taper at the chamber end from a 30-06 case used as a lap to break the sharp corner. Most RF designs at .454 will chamber with a little bit of resistance, then cleanly size down without cutting a ring of powder coat off the bullet.

[Froogal]

The original .44WCF was designed so that a person could have a rifle, and a revolver, and use the same ammo in either one. The .45 Colt follows those same rules. I reload my .45 Colts with 8.5 grains of Unique under a 200 grain projectile, and shoot them in both the rifle and the 6 shooter. Pretty sure the rifle delivers a bit more velocity, but that's how it works.

[PositiveCaster]

The original .44WCF was designed so that a person could have a rifle, and a revolver, and use the same ammo in either one. The .45 Colt follows those same rules.…

To be strictly accurate, the .45 LC was never designed to be used in a rifle. It wasn’t until well into the 20th century that factory rifles so chambered were made available. One issue was supposedly the very small soft rim, which caused feeding issues in rifles. My M94 has no feeding problems however, that theory may just be urban legend.

I load for rifle, revolver and pistol but find that for best performance I need slightly different bullets diameters, either .452” or .454”. It simply depends on the bore/chamber dimensions of particular firearms. Most rifles chambered to .45 LC are plenty strong, using pressure tested loads in either the OP’s Ruger or most rifles is safe. Most loads will give higher velocities in the rifle barrel. http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/45colt.html

As for pressures, it’s been known for five decades that pressures in revolvers can be higher than in rifles, but again it depends on the firearms’ dimensions.



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[TheFlynn01]

Okay interesting, thank you for all the info! I have Marlin 94 I am looking at to get to match with the Ruger. Out of all the things I have shot, I found the 45 ACP to be my favorite... but I think the 45 Colt might be climbing that list. It has been fun! I am also glad to know that the two can use the same, more or less depending on the diameter. I will start with reloading for just the blackhawk first before I even think of getting the rifle. It is just the idea of having a matched pair seems pretty cool! I have heard the 45 can be a good hunting round if loaded properly, so while my purpose at the moment is simply plinking and practice.. I would love to get into hunting if possible.

I have a Hornady reloading manual and it has lists for Ruger only, which is interesting and seems to be much 'Spicer' than the rifle/regular 45 colt data.. would those be better for hunting? For the time being I am going to stick with the load data I have found in my Lyman book for the cast stuff, but I am curious.

for economy reason I was thinking of picking up the Lee 454-255-RF to try out, unless anyone has better suggestions?

Thanks for everyone who has replied, I have enjoyed the info!

Also, thanks Froogal about the info on the .44WCF that is just plain neat! Thanks for the link as well PositiveCaster, thats cool info! Never knew of that site!

[Winger Ed.]

Any of the flat faced 250-260 gr. have been very well thought out, tried, tested and proven.
Your choice of a 255 is good. If you cast on the softer side of alloys, you'll probably end up with a 260-265.

[PositiveCaster]

… for economy reason I was thinking of picking up the Lee 454-255-RF to try out, unless anyone has better suggestions?…

That Lee 255-RF cast in wheelweights is my favorite all-around cast bullet for the .45 LC. I did use a 300-grain LBT LFN for IHMSA silhouette competition out to 220 yards, but the Lee 255 is plenty accurate (partly due to its long bearing surface) and that big meplat kills game well. The other cast bullet I like is the 285-grain LBT WFN - but it really isn’t any better than the Lee for my uses. The M94 Winchester really likes the Lee bullet.



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[T-Bird]

for cutting paper, I use the 200 Lee rnfp in both revolver (Ruger Bisley) and rifle (rossi 92) sized .452. It looks like the 255gr with 1 less groove. Both like it, I did have my Ruger cylinders opened to .4525 tho. I was told here it was a good idea years ago. I don't regret it.

[jimb16]

Since nobody has seen fit to mention this, I will. Your revolver can handle heavier loads than some of the earliest lever rifles like the 1873 models. The internal linkage of those models is weaker than later lever rifles. So approach with a slight bit of caution. I shoot an 1873 cattleman revolver and an 1873 rifle. I limit my loads accordingly. I use a cast 265 gr round nose flat point and a moderate load of Unique in both. The rifle prints sub 1 inch 5 shot groups at 50 yards, and I have taken multiple deer with it. I could do the same with the pistol IF only the deer would show up on the days when I carry the pistol!

[Soundguy]

Try a rnfp for both. Should feed ok in a tube magazine too. If it was me..i wouldn't try to hunt best powders for both..but rather make one good spec ammo and run in both..personally..i like titegroup. I run it in my revolvers and levergun.

[Wheelguns 1961]

I use a noe 280 wfn in both my blackhawk and marlin 1894. It is also a good hunting bullet. I tried .454” bullets in the marlin, but they didn’t shoot any better than the .452” bullets. This bullet also feeds good in the marlin. I usually load tier 1 loads for plinking, and tier 2 loads for hunting.

[M-Tecs]

To be strictly accurate, the .45 LC was never designed to be used in a rifle. It wasn’t until well into the 20th century that factory rifles so chambered were made available. One issue was supposedly the very small soft rim, which caused feeding issues in rifles. My M94 has no feeding problems however, that theory may just be urban legend.

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Not an urban legend. It is and was a fact that the early 45 Colts did not have a suitable rim for use in a lever gun.

https://forums.sassnet.com/index.php?/topic/165364-why-no-original-45-colt-rifles/

The very very first version of the 45 Colt cartridge was not a Balloon Head cartridge. It was known as a Benet primed folded rim type of cartridge. Benet was the name of an official with the Frankford Arsenal and he developed this priming system. Here is a photo of some Benet primed folded rim cartridges. The one all the way on the left is a 45 Colt, I am reasonably sure the cartridge next to it is what we would call today a 45 Schofield. Notice these cartridges are copper cased, not brass. The Benet priming system did not use an externally visible primer. You can see that from the view of the bottoms of the cartridges. Benet cartridges were inside primed. The priming material was applied to the inside of the bottom of the case, then an anvil plate was pressed down on top of the priming material. The anvil plate was crimped in place so it would not move. These crimps are quite evident in this photo. When the firing pin struck the rear of the case, the priming material was compressed between the rear of the case and the anvil plate, causing the priming material to ignite. Because of their construction, Benet primed cases were not reloadable. Early 45-70 cases also used the Benet priming system.

As far as these early Benet primed 45 Colt cases is concerned, it is true that they did not have a large enough diameter rim for a rifle extractor to get a good grip on. But as you say, the 45 Colt cartridge was conceived of as a revolver cartridge for the SAA and an extractor did not enter into the equation. We all know that the SAA pokes its empties out from the inside. There is no extractor on a SAA, only an ejector rod.

The other thing to be noted about the Benet Primed case is it had the most case capacity of all. Some firearm historians believe the Benet primed case is the only case that could truly hold 40 grains of FFg Black Powder in the 45 Colt cartridge.

https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v495/Driftwood_Johnson/cartridges/benet.jpg

https://forums.sassnet.com/index.php?/topic/232288-colt-saa-45-lc-loadsammo-to-avoid/page/2/

[georgerkahn]

Hey there folks, I was lucky enough to have Ruger blackhawk fall into my lap in 45 Colt. I have ben having fun plinking with it, and want to start casting for it. I also like the idea of having a matching lever gun, just seems like fun!

Without trying to sound too stupid, what sort of difference's should I consider with casting and reloading for a rifle and a revolver? I know that some powders burn better in shorter barrels vs longer and such, but I am all quite new to it. So I figured I would ask, mold recommendations and if I could make good revolver loads that would work in a lever gun as well. Part of me feels it should be fine, same caliber and all, but another part of me wonders about burn rates and pressure and such.

Anyway, thanks for reading and I look forward to some helpful advice!

As a suggestion, try and pick up -- or, if you're lucky a local to you library may have it? -- John Taffin's book of the .45.305642 He aptly lists oh soooo many different .45 handguns AND rifles, also providing load information to complement his fine photos and text.
I have Vacquero and a Winchester AE -- both in .45 Colt -- and shoot same loading in both.
Congrats on yours, and best wishes!
geo

[Soundguy]

Thanks for posting... Wow.. Virtually no rim!! Almost like a 32acp

[PAndy]

We buy cast bullets for my son's 45 colt Marlin. It shoots better with bullets sized 0.454", but they were a little harder to find . His rifle feeds everything including a 255 swc, which is actually the most accurate for some reason.

[Soundguy]

255 pretty small eh?

[TheFlynn01]

I will be sure to check out that book! Now I am curious: Gas checks? Do I need them? It seems the mold I got is not made for them, and I am not sure who offers a 45 with one (I am sure they are out there, I am just new and dont know where to look)

[Soundguy]

If your mold is not set up for gas checks you don't need them besides 45 ACP and 45 Colt don't get up to the velocity that you would need them