30-30 info

[dearslayer]

Not sure what I'm doing wrong in the search function but I punched in 30-30 and it came back with nothing.
So up til now I've only loaded 9mm,40, and .45 and to be honest it's still a learning curve however lately I've want to dip my toe into reloading to my Winchester 30-30. I have a new 4pc set of Lee Dies that I've had for some time as well as some Leverevolution powder and some Hornaday FTX 160gr .308 bullets that I also purchased a long time ago.
Still need to purchase a mold to cast but I have no idea what brand or size to get. I know the Lee molds are cheaper than most and perhaps the quality isn't as good as some of the more expensive ones.
So can anyone offer some insight or point me in the right direction to get me started with reloading for this rifle. I know like everything else theres probably a ton of info on this on the web and I will do some research myself when I have the time. Just thought I'd get some opinions here first. Thanks.

[ShooterAZ]

The Lee C309-170F (and 150F too) have both been a really good boolit for me, but my favorite 30-30 mold is the 311041 clone from NOE. I bought a brass mold, I should have got aluminum though because it's pretty darn heavy. I hope this helps!

[Larry Gibson]

Very hard to go wrong with the 311041, Lyman or NOE. The Lee 170 gr is good also. With LeveRevolution and cast bullets you'll need a 170 gr or heavier bullet. Also an M-die will be needed for cast. I use a Lyman 31 M-die for my .311 sized cast in my 30-30s.

[dearslayer]

Very hard to go wrong with the 311041, Lyman or NOE. The Lee 170 gr is good also. With LeveRevolution and cast bullets you'll need a 170 gr or heavier bullet. Also an M-die will be needed for cast. I use a Lyman 31 M-die for my .311 sized cast in my 30-30s.

At the risk of sounding stupid what is an M-Die?

[Bazoo]

I use a M die and .310 sized bullets. Gas checks prevent the bullet base from being swaged. 30-30 is about the easiest rifle round to reload. Length of the case is important for safety as well as consistent crimp. Unless you have the lee factory crimp die, then length isn’t as important for crimp consistency.

Rifle rounds need to be lube. That’s the main difference even between them and pistol. Lube from the shoulder to the base, no lube or only faint on the shoulder and neck. Size it. measure length. Trim if needed. m die for cast of flat based bullets for ease of loading. Primer and powder, bullet. Simple as that really. Don’t worry about overall length and getting off the rifling for accuracy. Just load to the crimp groove whatever that makes the OAL is correct.

[trapper9260]

The M-Die flare the mouth of the case to seat the cast bullet. It also dose not matter the make of the mold , as long it is taken care of right it will last you a long time. I have some old aluminum molds and still will out last me. Welcome to the fun.

[Mk42gunner]

An M-die is Lyman's version of a neck expanding die. They are normally used in straight walled cartridges now; not being needed for jacketed loads in bottlenecked cases, but are needed for lead bullets regardless of case shape. They have a stepped expander plug that tends to work well for cast lead.

One M die will do most of the cartridges in a given diameter. For instance the one I use for all of my .30-.31 caliber riles came in the die set for .32 S&W.

Hope this helps,

Robert

[Bazoo]

M die is similar to the 2nd or flair die in a pistol set. It’s omitted for most rifle loading of bottlenecked cartridges. Basically it’s a flaring die for your caliber but it has a stepped expander.

You can omit the expander ball in a rifle die sizer when using an M die, and it works your brass less. But it’s not necessary and presents a new complication, mainly the need for an undersized trimming pilot to fit the neck between sizing without the expander plug and then expanding with an M die. For a lee with its integral expander button and depriming rod, you’d need to get a 270 expander / depriming rod to use in your 30-30 so it doesn’t work the neck of the case. Omitting the expander part of the sizer die is an option, not mandatory. I have done both ways and prefer omitting.

[dearslayer]

I'll have to check to see what's included with the Lee 4 die set. Bought it some time ago and didn't even open it.

[ShooterAZ]

The Lyman M dies do indeed work quite well, but if you don't want to spend a lot of money, the Lee Universal Neck Expanding Die will get the job done too. The important thing is to flare your cases just so much that so you aren't scraping lead off, or sizing your boolit diameter smaller when seating them.

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1011184394

[The Dar]

I'll have to check to see what's included with the Lee 4 die set. Bought it some time ago and didn't even open it.

If your 4 die Lee set has a powder through expander it should work similar to the Lyman M die. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, I know the pistol die sets do.

[TXCOONDOG]

If your 4 die Lee set has a powder through expander it should work similar to the Lyman M die. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, I know the pistol die sets do.

Yes, the pistol dies do. Just bought a Lee 4 die set (30-30) and it doesn't come with a powder through die. Lee does make a powder through rifle die, but it doesn't expand the case mouth.

Description:


30/30 Ultimate Rifle 4-Die Set. Choose this die set for maximum versatility. The set features a full length-resizing die to return brass to factory new dimensions, perfect for reloading brass fired in other guns. The Collet Necksizing die is used on your fire formed brass giving you best possible accuracy. No case lube required when using the Collet Necksizing die and cases last almost forever. The Easy Adjust Dead Length Bullet seating die foolproofs the bullet seating adjustment, and assures perfect seating depth every time. The Factory Crimp die provides a secure crimp on bullets with or without a crimp groove. In most cases it helps accuracy by providing a uniform higher start pressure and gives the finished cartridge Factory like accuracy and dependability. The set is complete, with shell holder, powder measure and famous Lee load data featuring all common brands of powder organized in a easy to read logical forma

E-mail from Lee Customer Service"

Thanks for reaching out! What you will need is the long charging die:

It works the same as the pistol powder through expanding die, except it doesn`t expand the case mouth. Rifle case expansion is done in the sizing die.

Thank You,
Jeri
Customer Service

[Larry Gibson]

At the risk of sounding stupid what is an M-Die?

In loading 9mm, 40 and 45 you are already using an "M-die". With those die sets it is called an "expander" die. The M-die/expander die expands the inside of the sized neck and flares the case mouth, so lead is not shaved off the cast bullet. BTW, you're not sounding stupid at all. I suggest you download Lyman's #3 Cast Bullet handbook as it gives an excellent treatise in the front of the manual on loading cast bullets in not only handgun cartridges but rifle cartridges, like the 30-30, as well.

[sigep1764]

Are you loading for a Winchester 30-30, a Savage 340, a Marlin 336? If a Marlin with Microgroove rifling, you might think about sizing larger. My accuracy got better by moving to .312-.313 sizing in my Marlin 336 30-30. They tend to like fatter boolits.

[dearslayer]

I love this forum. I didn't expect this much info so soon. I will have to set aside some time to read over all these posts again. Thanks everyone.

[dearslayer]

Are you loading for a Winchester 30-30, a Savage 340, a Marlin 336? If a Marlin with Microgroove rifling, you might think about sizing larger. My accuracy got better by moving to .312-.313 sizing in my Marlin 336 30-30. They tend to like fatter boolits.
It's a Winchester model 94.

[Baja_Traveler]

Of course if you can get your hands on a set of RCBS Cowboy dies they are already made to flare the case for cast, so no need for an M die...

[Bazoo]

You can work around not having an M die by using the lee universal expander but you cannot load plain based bullets without swaging the bullet bases. Gas checked bullets resist base swaging. But the beauty of the M die isn’t just that it expands the case mouth. It also creates that step that was mentioned. That makes loading flat based jacketed much easier too. Flat based bullets sorta balance on top of the case and you just ram them to start them. But with the step, they set down into the case a bit and are straight upon being started. Very much worth the extra step because of the increased ease of loading.

[Texas by God]

I load cast for 6.8 SPC, 30-30, 30-40 Krag, 30-06, and 8x57mm all without a M die.
I only use gas checked bullets and I chamfer the inside case necks to help with seating the bullet. Not a single problem. I do flare straight wall cartridges with the included expander die.
The Lee C309170F works very well. You may discover that you don't even need another mould for your 30-30. Enjoy yourself!

Sent from my SM-A716U using Tapatalk

[gwpercle]

Get the Lyman M-Die or better yet ... get NOE's set up ... a Universal Body with interchangable M-die expander plugs . A M-Die does one caliber only ... Noe's Die has interchangable plugs in just about every caliber you could want .
I bought a Lyman M-Die when I started doing cast in 30-30 , solved all my seating problems .
Since then I discovered the NOE system and have been using the different expander plugs .
Having one of these expanders is just about a necessity for loading soft cast lead boolits .
I'm still shooting the Lee C309-170-F , sized to .309" in 30-30 and then went on to 30-06 and 7.5 Swiss ... works well in all of them . Just a double cavity but it turns out good boolits so I keep pouring them !
Gary

[gwpercle]

In loading 9mm, 40 and 45 you are already using an "M-die". With those die sets it is called an "expander" die. The M-die/expander die expands the inside of the sized neck and flares the case mouth, so lead is not shaved off the cast bullet. BTW, you're not sounding stupid at all. I suggest you download Lyman's #3 Cast Bullet handbook as it gives an excellent treatise in the front of the manual on loading cast bullets in not only handgun cartridges but rifle cartridges, like the 30-30, as well.

:goodpost:
Larry knows ...
Good Advice !
Be sure and buy the latest Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook 4th edition ...
worth every penny !
Gary

[PositiveCaster]

I cannot believe the amount of misinformation in this thread about the Lyman M die. It is not a “flaring” die, it is a two-step die which expands the case neck to two different, specifically designed diameters. The smaller diameter is slightly below bullet diameter to grip the bullet, the larger allows easy, straight seating of the bullet with close to the bullet diameter. I’ve used them for decades, but there is a better product which allows a more custom fit. These are the custom expander dies from Bullalo Arms: https://www.buffaloarms.com/reloading-supplies-accessories/custom-bullet-expander-balls/291-329.html

You don’t need an M die or equivalent, but they can allow better bullet seating alignment and accuracy.

305641

.,

[dearslayer]

:goodpost:
Larry knows ...
Good Advice !
Be sure and buy the latest Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook 4th edition ...
worth every penny !
Gary
I do have the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook 4th edition but to totally honest I haven't really read it completely. Will have to review it again. Thanks. It

[PhilC]

Get the Lyman M-Die or better yet ... get NOE's set up ... a Universal Body with interchangable M-die expander plugs . A M-Die does one caliber only ... Noe's Die has interchangable plugs in just about every caliber you could want .
I bought a Lyman M-Die when I started doing cast in 30-30 , solved all my seating problems .
Since then I discovered the NOE system and have been using the different expander plugs.
Excellent advice, the NOE plugs are all I use now.

[white eagle]

now ya did it
I have to go make up some loads for my 30-30

[compass will]

I use the Lee 170g in a first-generation marlin 336. It knocks over a thick chunk of steel cut in the shape of a full size whitetail at 200 yards in levergun silhouette matches

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk

[Bazoo]

Noe M die plug is not sufficient in length to size the 30-30 neck it’s entire length. If you’re running plain based bullets, it will swage your bases.

[Wayne Smith]

Another piece not mentioned is that Lyman makes two M die bodies, long and short. They make multiple expander tips to use in those bodies and usually - but not always - the short body is used for pistol/revolver cartridges and the long body is used for rifle calibers. Buy two bodies and the expanders you need, or investigate what NOE uses for the same purpose. I haven't used his stuff as I had the Lyman dies before he got into business.

[white eagle]

well I took my old 30-30 out today shoots fantastic
using a 311341 Lyman boolit weighing inn at 180 gr with ww alloy
I used Accurate 2460 and it shot some fantastic groups
did a progressive load from 25-27.5 gr and the more the charge increased the better the groups got
them I had some Accurate boolits from last year charged with H 414 and that load shot even better
those boolits weighed in at 190 gr.
going to be my woods rifle this year, it's been a long time :Fire:

[PAndy]

I have an NOE expander plug that was made extra long, specifically for 30-30 cases. See if they still offer it.

[charlie b]

Before you buy a mold you can try out some different bullets. Montana Bullet Works has quite a selection, including the Lyman bullet Larry recommended. I was really glad I did that when I started. Saved me spending money on molds that would not have worked for me at the time.

Expander. If you are using gas checked bullets all you really need is slight flare to the case mouth. The gas check will prevent the neck from sizing down the bullet. But, if you are using plain base, especially if they are not very hard, then the neck may size down the bullet. For that case you need the "M die" or NOE's equivalent. This die, as shown in the drawing posted above, opens up the case neck to prevent sizing the bullets, and, it makes a nice 'stepped' flare for starting the bullt.

In both cases you will need to use the crimp die to remove any flare at the mouth. I use the Lee FCD and set it to just remove the flare, no crimp.

After a while you may want to crimp the bullets. Depending on the rifle, load, etc the tubular magazine may cause some bullets to be pushed deeper into the case. A crimp will prevent that.

[popper]

Lyman 31M is for long 30/30 case necks, uses the long holder. Lee universal tool is for flare, not expanding but accepts NOE expanders (use 309). I could never get the Lee neck sizer to work, just full length all cases. Lee FCD works fine (part of the Lee set). Size the NOE clone 041 mould to 311, load and go. You will need GCs for that mould. Make a couple dummy rnds and check fit for seating depth and chambering. PC or 2 coats of BLL work as lube for me. BLL is Lee Liquid Alox and Ludmark floor wax mixed 50/50, use about 6 small drips per 50 bullets. I use plastic deli meat container, drip in and swirl bullets around good, dump on wax paper or something to dry overnite, then repeat. Cheap and no cooking or anything special to make it.
I started with the Lee ranchdog 30/30 mould, half GC and half PB, worked OK but changed to a 31 170. Accuracy was better but the Lee worked OK.