TLC313-150-RF load for a CZ 527M 7.62x39 to hunt deer???

[GBCAPT]

I want to use my CZ 527 7.62x39 carbine to hunt deer in a nearby woodlot. A few years ago I got a NOE TLC313-150-RF 4 hole mold but never really got to develop a satisfactory load with it. I sure would appreciate anyone insight re: a good powder and charge info if you have something that is working well for you!

Also am interested in using a Forster hollow pointing accessory with my case trimmer with this boolit. A friend of mine has one he uses with some pistol boolits, and finds it beneficial accuracy wise - thinks it shifts the center of mass, improving stability for his round.

Once I saw some load info that came from Ranch Dog for this boolit, but failed to save it. Is it still recoverable anywhere?


Thanks!

[405grain]

I've got a pdf of that reloading information. PM me with your email address and I'll send you a copy.

[Milky Duck]

I used lilgun in my bolt action x39 with good results..cant remember off hand what charge weight.

[Larry Gibson]

Problem with that mould is it isn't a GC bullet. That means to attain and maintain hunting level accuracy you'll probably be restricted to 1400 - 1600 fps with a softer alloy that would expand for use on deer. A soft cast bullet of yours (16-1 alloy) at 1400 fps would still make a decent 100 yards deer cartridge. IMHO that could suffice for stand hunting but for still or spot and stalk I would prefer more velocity.

In my Mini Mk X 7.62x39 I use a GC'd C312-150-FN [a GB mould of the RD bullet] cast of COWW +2% tin then mixed 50/50 with lead. I HP them 3/16" deep. Best accuracy runs at 1850 - 1900 fps when loaded over IMR4895. Useable hunting accuracy for deer can be had upwards of 2050 fps. Case capacity for slower burning powders, magazine length and the 20" barrel with a 10" twist being the limiting factors.

If you're serious about wanting to hunt deer with the 7.62x39 cartridge I'd suggest either getting a GC mould to boost the velocity upwards of 1850 - 2000 unless you are stand hunting, keep the range inside 100 yards and can pick the shot to carefully place the bullet.

[GBCAPT]

Thanks Larry! Your posts are always very informative and experience based, and I pay close attention!

My TLC313-150-RF is a gas check version. I have some cast of reclaimed shot mixed with some range scrap, some added tin gas checked with gator aluminum checks and sized .310/.311/.312 for testing. Also received a copy of Ranch Dogs Load Notes for this boolit from 405GRAIN. I just exhausted my supply of RL-7, but have some 2400/5744/Red Dot/IMR 4227/800X/AA2200 and RL -19 onhand.

My hope was to use some of one of these, but will definitely consider your 4895 experience!

[Larry Gibson]

That's excellent that you have the GC'd version of the mould. You can now use the full potential of the 7.62x39. However, your alloy may be too hard or brittle for any expansion. I'm assuming expansion is wanted because of potential HPing the bullets? I also prefer some expansion for my own hunting bullets. I find the alloy I mentioned to work very well with 30 cal bullets launched at 1900 - 2100 fps which makes for a 200 yard effective range on deer. For hunting with that softer alloy I clean the barrel every 5 - 8 shots to maintain best accuracy. Though, if you ar PCing (I don't), you may not have to.

[GBCAPT]

Hollow Pointing will be a future branch of experimentation - don't have the hollow pointing accessory for my Forster Trimmer yet. My current task is to get some down the tube with sufficient energy and accuracy to do the job properly. I shoot for testing at my local club range, but am not able to recover fired bolts from the backstop. My thought is to take time to put a few rounds into a softwood firewood round endwise and did out the bolts to inspect for expansion/penatration. I am using ALOX/JPW and tumble lube boolits. I just got some HTC coating, but have not tried it out yet.

Where I will be hunting, shots are most likely going to be less than 100 yds and 60+ years of hunting experience have taught me to never pull a trigger unless I am very highly confident of a good shot. I no longer risk shots at runners and would rather have no venison in the freezer than wound and not recover game.

Thanks for your valuable insight Larry!

[Larry Gibson]

Sounds like you're on the road to success.

[Grayone]

Hollow Pointing will be a future branch of experimentation - don't have the hollow pointing accessory for my Forster Trimmer yet. My current task is to get some down the tube with sufficient energy and accuracy to do the job properly. I shoot for testing at my local club range, but am not able to recover fired bolts from the backstop. My thought is to take time to put a few rounds into a softwood firewood round endwise and did out the bolts to inspect for expansion/penatration. I am using ALOX/JPW and tumble lube boolits. I just got some HTC coating, but have not tried it out yet.

Where I will be hunting, shots are most likely going to be less than 100 yds and 60+ years of hunting experience have taught me to never pull a trigger unless I am very highly confident of a good shot. I no longer risk shots at runners and would rather have no venison in the freezer than wound and not recover game.

Thanks for your valuable insight Larry!

I have much better luck with testing expansion by soaking paper and at least 24" thick to catch the bullet than using wood. I have the Forster Hollow pointer and followed Mr. Gibson's recommendation of 3/16 deep x 1/8th hole. It works very well with the mentioned alloy.

[GBCAPT]

Thanks!
I just ordered a hollow pointer for my trimmer, so will be giving that a try. Do you or Larry Gibson know what hardness your boolits are coming out? I know brine number is not the whole story for expansion but I do have a Lee hardness tester to compare my alloy with your known performing rounds.

Thanks!

[Intel6]

I have the same NOE 150 gr. RD mould along with the NOE 129 gr. SP mould that I use for loading cast in the 7.62x39. I have both the CZ and a Ruger American in 7.62x39 and also a Yugo SKS that I typically shoot them in. I PC and Gas check them for shooting in all of them. I had jugs of Accurate 1680 and 2200 so I worked up a load to use in all of them. Looking at my chrono data I only have it for the Ruger but it will give you an idea of the load. I really like the 150 RD, it hits the steel real hard, and I assume it would be great for critters.

150 gr. NOE RD PC/GC - Loaded in RP cases with Winchester Small Rifle primers

20 grs. Accurate 1680 - 1,950 fps.

22 grs. Accurate 2200 - 1,842 fps.

Since you say you have AA 2200 I think it might be worthwhile testing it out.


In the PIC you can see the two NOE bullets along with the Lee 155 gr. bullet I used to shoot in the 7.62x39 before I got the 150 gr. RD mould.


305705

[Larry Gibson]

After 2 weeks of "aging" my AC'd bullets cast of COWWs + 2% tin then mixed 50/50 with pure lead give a BHN of 9 - 10.

[GBCAPT]

Thanks Larry

I tested mine this A.M. and find them in the 18-19 BNH range. These were water quenched at casting. I will try annealing a few by heating to around 450 and air cooling to see if they might soften up a bit.

[WinchesterM1]

So i have the NOE version of the RD-165 TL-HP, I cast mine to around 11-12BHN with 4% SN (I know a waste, but I have 100s of lbs of 90/10) I PC mine and size to .311 with a al GC, i weight sort them when they are all sized and ready to load, they come out at 168.8gn, i use IMR4198 and shoot them out of my Ruger Ranch rifle going around 1900-2000fps, I have killed around 20 or so deer with this out too 200 yards. This is my neice and nephew rifle for when they want to hunt, they like how small and light it is, every deer i have killed with it has only ran MAYBE 10 feet but most were bang flops, when i get home ill look up the data but im sure its around 21.5 gn of imr4198

[GBCAPT]

Thanks Intel6

The only load data I have for this particular boolit is the "load note" matrix originated by "Ranchdog" - the designer of this mould. I am unsure how he arrived at this data.

His load note matrix appears to be based on a 20" barrel and does not specify a particular boolit lube. AA1680 is shown at 21.0 grains yielding 1851 fps and 22.2 grains yielding 1954 fps.

There is no listing for AA 2200.

Did you find a source for the 2200 info or get there by other means?

Thanks!

[Intel6]

Thanks Intel6

The only load data I have for this particular boolit is the "load note" matrix originated by "Ranchdog" - the designer of this mould. I am unsure how he arrived at this data.

His load note matrix appears to be based on a 20" barrel and does not specify a particular boolit lube. AA1680 is shown at 21.0 grains yielding 1851 fps and 22.2 grains yielding 1954 fps.

There is no listing for AA 2200.

Did you find a source for the 2200 info or get there by other means?

Thanks!

Honestly, I am not sure where it came from, been shooting that load for some time. I am sure I got some "good" info to start with and then went from there with testing. I am not a haphazard reloader, I dont like blowing up my guns. :-) Looking at the 2200 data in the Western manual the low for a jacketed 150 is 26.1 gr. (for 2,100 fps).

[GBCAPT]

Since my last post I tried loading this bullet over AA5744 with abysmal results! Partially the result of a scope ring issue, but a dead end alley none the less. Also noted that the gas checks I used were Gators for .303s - all I could get at the time.

So I may start over from scratch - better alloy, right checks, different powder - after a break to let the frustration subside!

THANKS!

[GBCAPT]

WHOA MULE!

After my post above, I had second thoughts. I went to the shop, retorqued my scope mounts and stock bolts, gave the barrel a thorough scrubbing and decided to try INTEL6's 2200 load. Loaded up my remaining 5 primed Lapua cases with his 22gr recommendation and stopped by the club 25 yd range because it was empty and I could shoot and retrieve target at will rather than wait for the crowd at the 50 and 100 yd range.

Shots were low and right of the 1/2 inch target, but all shots were in a single overlapping oval - some slight vertical dispersion - only slightly large than the target dot.

So, I will rework my batch of Lapua brass and try this load out at longer ranges! Without a chronograph, I don't know velocity numbers, but if it will print well at 50 /100/150 I will go with it for the season!

Thanks for those that shared theirs info with me!

[GBCAPT]

As a continuation, I loaded up five new pieces of PPU brass with Intel6's AA2200 load with fed 210 primers and moderate crimp to get a look at a slightly longer range. I made sure to mic the case lengths & base diameter as well as closely inspecting the primers before heading to the range.

When I got to the club the wind was too gusty to really do well at 100yds, so I went to a more protected 60 yd range.

With a dry clean barrel the first two shots were almost touching, but 6" high and an inch left of the aim point so I cranked in some correction before the remains three. The last three didn't group as well as the first two. I think shot three would have been right in there with 1 & 2 had I not adjusted the scope, but 4 & 5 would have opened the group up for sure - perhaps my concentration wained.

When I got back to the shop, I inspected the 5 cases closely for signs of high pressure, but found non! Primers were not flattened, the case length and head diameter were unchanged.

So, I will load up more for longer range testing when the wind abates. I will also try dry patching after 3 shots to see if it helps prevent early accuracy decay. After all, I am searching for a hunting load and it's the first few that are going to make the difference.

[405grain]

If your deer season is fast approaching you'll have to "go with what you know". If you're getting minute of Bambi at the range, then take that hunting. After you've got venison in the freezer you'll have a whole year to work up a more accurate load. I don't want to muddy the waters, but with 150 grain cast loads in my 7.62x39's I've had good luck using BLC2. The reason that I chose this powder was because I had just starting out loading cast bullets in that caliber, and according to load data it was (supposedly) impossible to get enough BLC2 into that size case to get too much pressure. Another powder that I've had good results with is IMR-4198. If you're pressed for time don't let "perfect be the enemy of good enough".

[Intel6]

GBCAPT, glad to hear you are having some success. I know that 22 grain load is on the low end and I am sure you could go up a bit with it. I just like it for a great plinking load that doesn't tear up the brass. The Accurate 2200 was originally made as a 7.62x39 powder so it works well. Good luck with your quest!

[sawzall]

Thanks Intel6

The only load data I have for this particular boolit is the "load note" matrix originated by "Ranchdog" - the designer of this mould. I am unsure how he arrived at this data.

His load note matrix appears to be based on a 20" barrel and does not specify a particular boolit lube. AA1680 is shown at 21.0 grains yielding 1851 fps and 22.2 grains yielding 1954 fps.

There is no listing for AA 2200.

Did you find a source for the 2200 info or get there by other means?

Thanks!

Ranch Dog came up with his load data by running the numbers through QuickLoad. None of it is actually tested. He picked the powders based on load density. He likes full cases.

[GBCAPT]

I worked up to 23 grains in small numbers of .25 grain increments with new unfired brass, being sure to measure case length, case head diameter and closely inspecting primers before and after firing. This morning at the 23 grain level, I could measure .0005 increase in case head diameter, even though there was no sign of primer flattening.

I also observed that accuracy seemed to deteriorate with every shot. At 100yds from a concrete bench over bags, the first shot was high center of a 1" dot, the second, third, fourth and fifth each drifted progressively further from the aim point. shots 1& 2 were 1 moa, shots 1,2 and 3 grew to 1 1/2 Mao, and all shots grew to 3 moa.

Post shoot cleaning with JB bore paste showed small flecks of what I presume are lead.

So I think 23 grains is a bit over the practical max for my rifle & alloy @.311 sizing. I may shoot another small batch sized at .310 for comparison and then drop back to 22.5 to stay safe.

[GBCAPT]

Tried the .310 sizing at 23 gr of 2200 this A.M.. cases showed no head expansion, however, accuracy degraded significantly - more like a buckshot pattern. A quick swab with a tight patch showed some lead flakes too.

[GBCAPT]

Well, rifle deer season opens in the morning here in central Michigan. My pop up has been in the woods for 10 days, cameras are showing regular traffic with smaller bucks and does and a couple of good bucks at night.

I settled on a load of Lapua bass, primed with Fed 210s behind 22.6 gr of AA2200 seated to the grip groove of the TLC313-150-RF sized .311, gator AL .303 gas checked, lubed with 45/45/10 and with a modest crimp from a Lee FCD and hollow pointed 1/4" deep.

To verify everything is copacetic, I was at the range at 8:00 and fired three shots @ a 1" dot on the 100 yard range with a cold clean dry bore from bags with no cooling time between shots. All three shots were in the 1" dot, recoil was mild, but velocity remains unknown.

So we will see what tomorrow morning brings!

Thanks to everyone for the help!

[Kosh75287]

Deleted.

[armoredman]

Good luck! Sorry I missed this one - I used to load the NOE 129gr boolit for my CZ 527M/CSR before it went bye bye for medical bills. That little pill was wicked accurate! Think I still have the mold somewhere...

[wilecoyote]

...I doubt that, other conditions being equal, PPU cases can give the same group results as LAPUA.
About the Forster HPer, I own a Forster tool that works exclusively in manual mode, composed of a drill bit and a concave guide, to be held in the hand, which houses the tip of the ogive _
maybe I'm not up to date, but is there a conversion to apply it to a Forster Case Trimmer, or have they marketed an ad hoc one?

[GBCAPT]

My 2022 deer season ended yesterday with my second yearling doe hanging in the equipment shed. Both were pass thru shots at maybe 45 yards - no boolits recovered. One shot kills with neither doe traveling more than a few yards and dead before I could get to them. I saw a couple of good bucks on my camera's but only at night.

So now it's time to work on bettering my load for next season!

Thanks for members that responded to my post!

[Intel6]

Glad to hear everything worked out!