45 ACP casting/loading question

[compass will]

Currently as I start back up I just loaded 100 rounds for 45 colt.
255 g Lee boolet over 4.8g of Trail boss. (this has been load for years now)
the recommend 4.3 to 5.5 grain for 621-769 fps

Now for 45 ACP with a 200g Lee cast boolet

I could use trail boss, I have enough in stock for around 800 rounds. (but this is my 45 colt load)
I also have enough Clays for 1750 45 acp rounds.
I have an unlimited supply of Winchester 572 Ball because that is my shotgun power for 20/28 gauge (and is available at times).

but first real life problems: Primers

I currently have 700 large pistol and 1000 large pistol magnum (which I bought by accident).
I would like to save the 700 for 45 Colt loads and maybe start with the Magnums in the 45acp.

clay's calls for 3.6g to 4.3g for 759 to 888 fps
Winchester 572 calls for 6.4g to 7.2g for 897 to 1,018fps (this winchester even in 45 colt seems fast speeds)

If I want to use my magnum primers, where would you start? should i maybe save this clays for when the trailboss runs out and use 572 for the 45acp from the start?

[Dusty Bannister]

Is there any reason that you can not start with the suggested starting load for the 45 ACP?

[Hick]

I have the same problem in that I have lots of magnum primers and very few standard. I just load 45 acp using the starting loads in the manual and use the magnum primers. They shoot great.

[compass will]

Dusty, I have no problems starting with the starting loads. I was just asking about using Magnum primers because that is what I have the most of.
I also threw the 3 powder choices in there because someone might say "I had good luck with 572" or something like that.

[Martin Luber]

Magnum LP are fine as long as you're not with max loads. Specifically, Your clays loads are fine; they are target loads, not max. 3.8 Clays is popular in match shooting.

I've even used LR ( yes harder cup, slightly taller) with target loads, 50 fps increase there

[compass will]

shhhhh, I got 2000 Large Rifle

[Kosh75287]

Reloaders who use Winchester Large Pistol Primers in .45 ACP are, in effect, using magnum pistol primers. Those things are used to light up magnum pistol propellants like W296, so they're serious magnum primers, but are also recommended for use in non-magnum applications.
I'D say you'd be just fine using the mag pistol primers in either cartridge, with any propellant.

[BNE]

Clays is my go to powder for 45 ACP. 4.0 grains works great in all 45s that I have used it in.

3.6 with a magnum primer should work just fine.

[bruce381]

Clays is my go to powder for 45 ACP. 4.0 grains works great in all 45s that I have used it in.

3.6 with a magnum primer should work just fine.

Me too also i load 185gr at 4.2 work real well

[Winger Ed.]

I never tested the theory:
It used to be the common knowledge that you'd need to back off 1/2 a grain for mag. pistol primers in standard loads.
That would more or less get you back to the listed speeds listed for standard primers.

Cast boolits are pretty forgiving as far as over pressures go.
I'd start with the minimum charge listed, and go from there. I doubt you'll shoot your eye out kid.

[ioon44]

In .45 ACP I use WSPM and WLP with a 200gr SWC with the same powder charge I get almost the same chrono results, the WSPM always has a lower ES reading.

Using Magnum primers is like any other component change, use the suggested starting load and work up.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

One thing...
I assume you are shooting them in a semi-auto?
I might start a wee bit below the starting load.
Because, when starting with starting load with Mag primer, I'd load a few just to see how the gun reacts, it will likely not be noticeable, but just in case, watch for the slide slamming and launching the spent brass into another zip code.
I had this when working up a load in 38 super (1911), and I was no where near max load.

[charlie b]

I would use the mag primers. Just start at min load. Like above, I have found Win LRP and LPP to act like mag primers.

If you don't have a chronograph, and the rounds cycle the action, I'd stop right there. Win572 has a burn rate right at Blue Dot and AA#7. Those are my two favorite powders for max loads in the .45acp. With a chrono I'd increase the charge until I got about 50fps under the book max vel.

[ABJ]

Clays is my go to powder for 45 ACP. 4.0 grains works great in all 45s that I have used it in.

3.6 with a magnum primer should work just fine.

I agree, Clays is an excellent powder in the ACP case. The only time mag primers caused an issue is near the top end slaming the slide back harder than I wanted. 3.6/3.8 should be fine. 4.0 with regular primers is a good load for me.
Tony

[Soundguy]

using a mag primer.. work up.. that being said.. I have virtually NEVER found a starting load for an autoloader that worked GOOD.

IE.. loading for semi auto pistoils.. I almost NEVER start at minimum.. I usually start dead in the middle.. that's just me.. I'm not recommending others do that, using mag primers, I would likely start at more like 35-40% of max ... vs starting... starting acp loads and strong springs generally always yield fails to feed.. failure to extract.. stovepiping.. etc..

[openbook]

JonB, could you describe how this works, and what exacerbates it, a little bit more? I had the brass-to-next-week problem with some light-for-caliber 9mm loads using Titegroup.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

JonB, could you describe how this works, and what exacerbates it, a little bit more? I had the brass-to-next-week problem with some light-for-caliber 9mm loads using Titegroup.

you got two choices, reduce the load or swap springs.

[oldsalt444]

I'll let you in on a secret. Magnum primers are not much different from regular. The difference is they add powdered aluminum (or a similar metal) to raise the temperature of the flame. This is to help ignite slower burning powders used in magnum and rifle loads. It is not more "explosive", just higher temperature. I learned this from remaking my own primers. You would do just fine by starting out maybe 0.2 grain less in your .45 and go from there. Chances are you won't notice the difference.

[openbook]

you got two choices, reduce the load or swap springs.

That's so weird, I was using the minimum load from Lyman's 4th. Lee 356-102-1R (102 grains), with 4.2 gr Titegroup. So, yes, at 102 gr it's a light-for-caliber bullet...but what surprised me was it was the starting load. Not sure how much below the "minimum" load it's ok to go.

[compass will]

thanks everyone. The mold and dies will be here tomorrow, but I think the boolets need to rest before going through the luber/sizer so maybe I should not cast on Saturday shoot on Sunday so we will see in a week or 2.

[charlie b]

Why do they need to 'rest'. I usually resize the same day I cast.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

That's so weird, I was using the minimum load from Lyman's 4th. Lee 356-102-1R (102 grains), with 4.2 gr Titegroup. So, yes, at 102 gr it's a light-for-caliber bullet...but what surprised me was it was the starting load. Not sure how much below the "minimum" load it's ok to go.
How much? Your gun will tell you. Do a ladder test. Like working up a load, but you work down.

[compass will]

I just cast around 20 lbs of 200g lee SMC (math shows me this is around 700 Boolits., I forget how much fun this is.
Next I sized and lubed all of them them with NRA lube I had bought 10 years ago, I forgot how messy that stuff was.
Than I loaded around 20 (all the brass I have) with 3.6 clays over mag primer.
tomorrow we shall see.
thanks for the suggestions everyone

[Dusty Bannister]

Don't get too upset if the bullets do not perform to your expectation. You are shooting bullets that have not had time to age harden. In a 45 you might get away with it in light loads though. Depends upon neck tension of the case squeezing down the soft lead bullet.

[compass will]

They were not the best I have shot but this is just the start of a new caliber for me. Next week is an ATA event so no boolets.
Today I also shot around 20 32acp's out of my Beretta Tomcat, 150 45 Colt between of my Uberties, my Snake slayer 4 and my Rossi Brass receiver 92.
Maybe ran 20 through the M&P 9mm and about 100 through my Ruger MkIII .22 that I put the Volquartsen trigger parts in. plus some jacketed through the 1911.
plus for a side show I got to see someone flying a radio controlled Jet (with a real turbine engine) at the field behind the range.
than came home and cleaned/reloaded those 150 45 Colts. All and all a good day.

[charlie b]

Nice work. As long as you had no leading it is a success.

There were two engines I always wanted to try in my RC stuff, the scale radial and a turbine. I just could never wrap my head around that much money being flown around. An old saying in RC. Whatever you fly you should be able to easily pay for another one. Implication being that crashing is part of the hobby. Now days my hands aren't steady enough so my planes are still hanging in the garage.

[Stacts]

I have virtually NEVER found a starting load for an autoloader that worked GOOD.

At the risk of hijacking the thread... I have.

I have used one load that was a starting load that worked well (at least... it worked for the 15 rounds I used to test it). 3.9 gr of HP-38 under a Lehigh Xtreme Defense (67 gr all copper) in .380. Please note that the max charge is 4.1 so... there isn't a lot of wiggle room :shock: and I use 4.0 even as my loading.


They were not the best I have shot but this is just the start of a new caliber for me. Next week is an ATA event so no boolets.
Today I also shot around 20 32acp's out of my Beretta Tomcat, 150 45 Colt between of my Uberties, my Snake slayer 4 and my Rossi Brass receiver 92.
Maybe ran 20 through the M&P 9mm and about 100 through my Ruger MkIII .22 that I put the Volquartsen trigger parts in. plus some jacketed through the 1911.
plus for a side show I got to see someone flying a radio controlled Jet (with a real turbine engine) at the field behind the range.
than came home and cleaned/reloaded those 150 45 Colts. All and all a good day.

Glad to hear it was a good day!

[compass will]

Guess I should follow up on this.
3.6gr clays, 200gr Lee SWC, CCI mag primers. leaning my hand on a bench shooting 10 yards = 2" group
3.9gr clays, 200gr Lee SWC, CCI mag primers. leaning my hand on a bench shooting 10 yards = 1" group (yes it really was 5 rounds in 1" with no flyers)

I think I will stop at 3.9gr and maybe approach this again when I can switch back to regular primers.

Wish I could shoot like that standing :).

[Forrest r]

Clays has been a fantastic powder for me in the 45acp/1911 with the 3 different +/- 200gr bullets I cast.

https://i.imgur.com/N17hNIE.jpg

Left: cramer 5f 200gr swc that is actually a hb version of the 5f that weighs 175gr
center: mp's h&g #68 clone 200gr swc
right: mp's 200gr hp
https://i.imgur.com/lZyBjGD.jpg

All 3 bullets held 1" or less @ 50ft for the 5-shot test groups using a 1911 rested with a burris fastfire III.

The actual targets/stand used to do a simple ladder test using those 3 bullets and 4.0gr and 4.3gr of clays for the test loads. As you can see my 1911 didn't like the4.0gr of clays load.
https://i.imgur.com/GcK8If3.jpg

[sse]

I had a guy give me 2 trays of large primers with no idea what they were or how old they were. I loaded some of them up in 45 acp and 200 gr. slugs and could not tell the difference but later managed to figure out 1 tray was Federal large pistol and the other was CCI large rifle.