bluetti solar generator

[rancher1913]

any body have one and care to let me pick your brain. looking at using it for a UPS type system for the wifes freezers, yes that plural, she has 5 and i am getting worried about all the unrest in the country and fragility of the grid. i need something that will buy us a good chunk of time so that we can get stuff canned. have a couple gas gennies but the solar gennies are intriguing.

[farmerjim]

5 freezers are going to pull a lot of watts. Things in the freezers will go a day or so before things will start to thaw. I looked at the bluetti website and they are solar panels with battery storage for when the sun doesn't shine. Like rainy days and night. Inverter generators are great for intermittent loads like freezers. They shut down to idle when the compressor isn't running.

The solar generators cost more than a generator for their output, but then there is no fuel needed.
There are other systems with solar panels that are essentially the same thing so if you are going to go solar, shop around. You may get a tax credit for solar.

[jonp]

Those solar panels look expensive to me. There are several solar generators on the market with good reviews so shop around. A freezer does not have to run more than once or twice a day to stay cold so take that into consideration and make sure you get solar panels that will provide enough power to recharge that generator. One more thing, are you sure you need a pure sine wave generator? You don't need one for a freezer.

[farmbif]

I was looking into those bluetti . they have excellent reviews by bob at cheaprvliving and many others. they can take something like 1500 recharge cycles. and they seem to take great care in building each and every one. seem to be well thought out. with a couple solar panels you will never again need to lug cans of gas I'm pretty sure you can charge them up with just about any solar panels as well as plugging them into the wall or even from your cigarette lighter in a vehicle. they are not inexpensive but from everything I could find out about them they seem like a solid investment. if you have ever run a 13hp generator day and night you know how much gas they can drink.

[HATCH]

Its not the best choice for your application to be totally honest with you.
I am not sure what part of the country you live in but a better choice would be a natural gas/propane powered generator.
Something with a auto transfer switch.
Get a big propane tank and use it only for the generator. You could run it for several days on it.

[HATCH]

i need something that will buy us a good chunk of time


Read over your post again. Good chuck of time - buy solar panels and get a battery bank,

[dverna]

Five freezers of food....you think that is enough?

Do a test. Unplug one and check the temperature every two hours and see how long before it needs to be restarted. Then check how long it takes to get back down in temperature

That will give you an idea of your power needs.

[BLAHUT]

Whatever you decide on, get a propane run system. Fuel Never goes bad and minimal upkeep.
There are hole house system's that run on propane/natural gas, with an auto transfer switch, that you can size to your needs.
I prefer propane with a stand-alone designated tank, as long as you have gas you have power.

[rancher1913]

Its not the best choice for your application to be totally honest with you.
I am not sure what part of the country you live in but a better choice would be a natural gas/propane powered generator.
Something with a auto transfer switch.
Get a big propane tank and use it only for the generator. You could run it for several days on it.

for the cost of a tank and one fill, i can get a unit that lasts a lot longer and is quiet.

[rancher1913]

Read over your post again. Good chuck of time - buy solar panels and get a battery bank,

that is what the solar generator does

[rancher1913]

the system im looking at will do all the freezers. the panels bluetti sell are garbage and have horrible reviews but the generator and batteries have the best reviews. i am looking at regular hard solar panels and it will take 12, 200 watt panels to max out the generator at 2400 watts. i have good southern exposure so i should be able to make power all day.

i have a 60kw genset but i would rather have something a little more renewable, fuel is expensive.

[JimB..]

I’m thinking about your use case.
Power goes off, you want enough time to pull stuff from the freezers and can it, without power. So gas service for defrosting, packing and canning? I think you’d be better off starting canning now, and besides canned food doesn’t take power. If you need that much food you have an intolerable single point of failure, you need a generator plus solar backup!

[Brokenbear]

Natural gas is immediately shut off with any seismic activity so my natural gas supplier tells me
It will take a huge propane tank to run a 10KW generator because natural and propane gas have far less energy than gasoline has
There still is NO CAN to put electricity into that you created yesterday ..we still do not have the technology
Elon Musk has told the US Gov't they are idiots in that there is not the technology YET to store electric energy
Get a gas fired electric start inverter generator and run it 2 hours a day twice a day and your freezers are good to go
I say inverter type because most modern alliances have circuit boards and processors in them as well as large household stuff as simple as modern furnaces and refrigerators have processors and circuit boards
There is not a storage battery on the planet that is not dying the day it is built and does not accelerate that death every time you charge it period ..
No magic ..beware of Kool-Aid sellers

Bear

[ulav8r]

the system im looking at will do all the freezers. the panels bluetti sell are garbage and have horrible reviews but the generator and batteries have the best reviews. i am looking at regular hard solar panels and it will take 12, 200 watt panels to max out the generator at 2400 watts. i have good southern exposure so i should be able to make power all day.

i have a 60kw genset but i would rather have something a little more renewable, fuel is expensive.

^60KW should be enough to run three large homes or one home and a good sized welding or a 4-5 man machine shop. For one large all electric home with 5 freezers. 20KW should be enough capacity with little effort to regulate usage. A 5kw generator would handle the five freezers and leave power left over for lighting, computers and phones just by alternating the start time of the freezers. Sell the 60KW generator and get a reasonable setup that will not require near so much fuel.

[john.k]

Musk is the master flim flam man...........he sells costly ,flammable batteries that self destruct sooner or later,when for the same money you can buy old ,old fashioned tech Edison cells .........if weight is no factor ,then Edison cells are a long way ahead of any high tech stuff,and they dont need a massive computer to controll the charging and discharging......... they are not flammable ,even a massive short will only do electrical damage ,and not cause a massive fire of the batteries.

[Thumbcocker]

You might want to check and see if the system is compatible with a wind charger as well. A hybrid solar/wind generator system always made sense to me. The wind blows at night and on cloudy days. Just a thought.

[rancher1913]

while i appreciate the replies, most have missed the point. i have a way to power stuff now but fuel is very finite. the solar generator would be used right now to power the freezers, thus cutting out the power company, and then if we lost power they would just keep on keeping on. i figure there will be a learning curve and i would rather get it out of the way before it matters thats why i was looking for advice from current owners of similar systems. yes batteries are the weak link but i figure that if i was careful in a grid down situation, i could get stuff cold during the day and let it ride at night.

[bedbugbilly]

The only experience I have had is with propane run generators . . . . so I ask this question out of pure curiosity.

Someone mentioned that the solar.battery system lasts for 1500 recharge cycles . . . and I assume at or around that point the batteries need to be replaced but the solar panels would still keep going. So in a realistic scenario . . . if it was strictly a stand-by system, how often would the batteries actually last before needing replacement - and with the current crazies - are batteries going to be available? And . . . if the system is pressed into continuous use due to whatever, how long will they last before needing replacement?

Not an easy choice I'm sure as there seems to be plusses and minuses to whatever system you would go with.

[Handloader109]

How are you going to 'cut off the power company now' ? Are the freezers in an out building you can separately power?

It doesn't make sense if they are like mine, in the garage, and in the dog run and in basement. No easy way to separate the power. I've looked at my house for solar and I use 20 kWh when the heat or air is not on in a 24hour day, so roughly 1kW per hour as a baseline usage, up to 100kwh per 24 hours at peak 100F day or 0F day in the summer or winter, which would be 4kWh per hour. A 4kW generator would pretty much run most of my house except for the main heating.

And next issue is that their largest battery is a 5kw battery. If your freezers use just say 500w each, that would MAYBE give you 10 hours.... even double would be 20 hours and the solar panels are NOT a dependable charger. if cloudy, you may be looking at 5 to 25% charge. If really bad, maybe almost zero.
You would be better off just getting several deep charge golf cart batteries.
Message MaryB, she runs her home off solar...

[MaryB]

any body have one and care to let me pick your brain. looking at using it for a UPS type system for the wifes freezers, yes that plural, she has 5 and i am getting worried about all the unrest in the country and fragility of the grid. i need something that will buy us a good chunk of time so that we can get stuff canned. have a couple gas gennies but the solar gennies are intriguing.

Those all in one systems are way over priced... go to a solar dealer, give him your requirements. Average freezer needs around 1kwh a day in power for a chest freezer. Upright are power hogs and use 3-4 times that(all your cold pours out on the floor when the door is opened, that warm air has to be cooled back down). May as well add some overhead for solar lighting in key rooms, and to power a laptop or small TV or some radios(my ham radios are solar powered). Go with an AGM style battery, they do well as a standby battery and are maintenance free. Regular lead acid require periodic watering to keep the levels up and they off gas a LOT of fumes.

[Mal Paso]

Current panels are in the 3-400 watt each range. 60 cell grid tie panels are the cheapest but 72 cell off grid/battery charging not far behind, battery charging is less complicated with 72. Also the panel life is 25 years and there are used panels, usually smaller for sale too. Sometimes large systems get replaced for financial or tax reasons. Lead Acid Batteries are still the cheapest per watt and premium cells last 16-18 years.

Cost per panel has stayed close to the same but panels have gotten larger.

[rancher1913]

The only experience I have had is with propane run generators . . . . so I ask this question out of pure curiosity.

Someone mentioned that the solar.battery system lasts for 1500 recharge cycles . . . and I assume at or around that point the batteries need to be replaced but the solar panels would still keep going. So in a realistic scenario . . . if it was strictly a stand-by system, how often would the batteries actually last before needing replacement - and with the current crazies - are batteries going to be available? And . . . if the system is pressed into continuous use due to whatever, how long will they last before needing replacement?

Not an easy choice I'm sure as there seems to be plusses and minuses to whatever system you would go with.

the lifepo batteries have like 10,000 cycles and can be run down lots farther than lead, or agm with out getting ruined.

[rancher1913]

How are you going to 'cut off the power company now' ? Are the freezers in an out building you can separately power?

It doesn't make sense if they are like mine, in the garage, and in the dog run and in basement. No easy way to separate the power. I've looked at my house for solar and I use 20 kWh when the heat or air is not on in a 24hour day, so roughly 1kW per hour as a baseline usage, up to 100kwh per 24 hours at peak 100F day or 0F day in the summer or winter, which would be 4kWh per hour. A 4kW generator would pretty much run most of my house except for the main heating.

And next issue is that their largest battery is a 5kw battery. If your freezers use just say 500w each, that would MAYBE give you 10 hours.... even double would be 20 hours and the solar panels are NOT a dependable charger. if cloudy, you may be looking at 5 to 25% charge. If really bad, maybe almost zero.
You would be better off just getting several deep charge golf cart batteries.
Message MaryB, she runs her home off solar...

they are all together and easy to separate off, the system has a built in device to draw from the grid if needed but will use solar first, and it will not back feed the grid. anybody with a little electrical know how can separate loads from a panel, i already have my essential ones in a separate panel that the gas gen set can power.

[rancher1913]

Those all in one systems are way over priced... go to a solar dealer, give him your requirements. Average freezer needs around 1kwh a day in power for a chest freezer. Upright are power hogs and use 3-4 times that(all your cold pours out on the floor when the door is opened, that warm air has to be cooled back down). May as well add some overhead for solar lighting in key rooms, and to power a laptop or small TV or some radios(my ham radios are solar powered). Go with an AGM style battery, they do well as a standby battery and are maintenance free. Regular lead acid require periodic watering to keep the levels up and they off gas a LOT of fumes.

yes you probably pay more for the convenience but i have next to no solar experience and there is nobody anywhere close that deals with solar. i figured the already put together unit would take a lot of the "mistakes" out of the equation for me and as a plus it would be very portable. i was just hoping somebody had already traveled down this road and i could learn from his/her experience.

[Handloader109]

they are all together and easy to separate off, the system has a built in device to draw from the grid if needed but will use solar first, and it will not back feed the grid. anybody with a little electrical know how can separate loads from a panel, i already have my essential ones in a separate panel that the gas gen set can power.HOW THE HECK won't it backfeed the grid when the power is off? You Have to have a switch of some sort to prevent this and it has to between the incoming power and the backup power. I didn't see any switch offered here. From what I see, the are made to plug into.

And I'll say it is way more difficult to 'separate' loads in an old panel if you have more than one circuit, and you do with 5 freezers. Just sayin, be careful.
Sounds like you like this little solar backup. I think you will spend way more on it than any real backup. These little things are good for powering up your phone and not much else. 5kw is nothing..... but your money.

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[MaryB]

the lifepo batteries have like 10,000 cycles and can be run down lots farther than lead, or agm with out getting ruined.

I can replace my AGM's 5 times for the cost of that lithium battery bank! And not have a fire hazard in the house! When you get to real solar systems very very few use lithium batteries. To expensive and to dangerous if a charge controller fails(had it happen, started boiling my lead acid bats... smelled it and pulled the solar panels fuse.) I prefer cheap and safe!

And lithium bats have 1,000 charge cycle life. Maybe 2,000 at the outside in a pampered system where battery temps are kept steady... heat and cold are the death knell for lithium bats!

[farmbif]

my mama got solar panels. she got suckered into buying from a unscrupulous salesman telling her she would get her $50,000 back in tax credits. even though she's 90 and has been retired for decades and she has no income to get tax credits on. the crazy thing is that her meter runs backwards all the time and the power company just keeps giving her credit, no cash back. and the crazier thing is that when the power goes out, the power goes out even though she got all this big giant solar panels its straight tied into the system and no way get power to the house when the grid goes down.
now my uncle learned something from this and put up a little 17 acre solar farm and gets some pretty good size semi annual checks from the power company that planted them in the pasture and got himself a whole house generator that runs off an oil tank that he uses to fuel the tractors and keeps it topped off.
back to the question at hand there is a guy on YouTube that reviews all kinds of stuff and did super thorough evaluation of the different lithium ion batteries used for solar storage and there is another guy that shows how to put together all this portable solar stuff. but the bluetti ac200 looks pretty convenient but the price is north of $1500. the only review of it I saw was by bob at cheaprvliving and he gave it a great review

[Handloader109]

I'll sideline more, there are a lot of the solar systems being sold where you sign over the tax credits to the installer. Watch out for those, and there are some that have roughly one panel that is tied to a separate controller that allows 1500watts to come into the house when the power goes down. Limited to that 1.5kw single breaker. Oh, and for anyone that has lithium batteries, only charge to 75% full for max life

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[Mal Paso]

the lifepo batteries have like 10,000 cycles and can be run down lots farther than lead, or agm with out getting ruined.

Bluetti says 3500+ cycles to 80%. I'll put that against Rolls Surette lead acid Any Day with 7200 discharges to 80% and more importantly 2800 discharges to 20%

[rancher1913]

cant find that battery you describe. the 12 volt rolls sell for about the same as the lifepos but if i am reading the specs right it only shows 1000 discharges.

my big complaint on lead acid is the maintenance, i will forget to check water levels and ruin the battery, thats why i have been looking at the lifepos and they have come a long ways. i will look into those rolls batteries a little more.

[Mal Paso]

cant find that battery you describe. the 12 volt rolls sell for about the same as the lifepos but if i am reading the specs right it only shows 1000 discharges.

my big complaint on lead acid is the maintenance, i will forget to check water levels and ruin the battery, thats why i have been looking at the lifepos and they have come a long ways. i will look into those rolls batteries a little more.

The 5000 series Rolls Surette batteries are premium quality 2-6 Volt batteries are connected together to make a battery bank. They have a usable life of 16-18 years (actual experience) compared to 6 years for most lead/acid batteries. They are Flooded and require watering but are the most reliable. Here is a 6 Volt: https://www.solar-electric.com/6cs-17ps.html

Gel and AGM can be permanently damaged by high current, I took out a set of gels that lasted 2 years. Helps to go big, more batteries to lessen the draw on each one. Also sealed cells are usually small and have to be put together in multiple strings making it easier for cells to drift.

The current generation of Lithium does not have a 16 year track record and is 4 times as expensive per Watt Hour.

[rancher1913]

thanks your response has been the type of info i wanted. i just know the electric company and the fuel company are just going to keep raising prices and i want to explore solar so i have a chance of staying on my farm in my old age.

[Mal Paso]

I work with Northern Arizona Wind & Sun among others but don't get paid by them for any reason.

There are similar batteries, steel cased like fork lift batteries but for Solar in the 800+ pound range if you have a tractor and access. The Rolls are plastic cased with fewer cells per battery and are easier to put in tight spaces. Look for a rating of 2,800 discharges to 20% and a 5 year warranty. Don't buy the watering systems, they Don't Work! Think of them as critters that need water to live.

Cheapest bang for the buck is the Interstate L16, good for 6 years.

72 cell panels can charge a 24 volt battery bank with a simple charge controller and wholesale without freight is around $.50 a watt for generic panels. Most of the big names are gone except Panasonic who charges a bit more, not a lot more when I looked. The supports to hold the panels usually cost as much as the panels so if you can figure out your own.... Not a big fan of panels on the roof, less air circulation under panels and Leaks and you should have Arc Fault protection.

I like Outback Inverters, you can replace parts in the rare event of a failure, shipping 100 lbs is expensive. Schneider bought Xantrex/Trace and is offering deals on whole house inverters 120/240. Outback is built here.

The Reliability of a good system is better than Utility Power.

[MrWolf]

Its not the best choice for your application to be totally honest with you.
I am not sure what part of the country you live in but a better choice would be a natural gas/propane powered generator.
Something with a auto transfer switch.
Get a big propane tank and use it only for the generator. You could run it for several days on it.

This is what I have. 500 gallon tank just for the house generator. Systems tests itself once a week. I have some solar panels set up but the weak link for me is the batteries. I know my generator works and I own the tank. Had it for about 5 years now and still about 90% full even running for days at a time. Only issue I've had was when stink bugs and lady bugs shorted out the transfer switch which cost me a furnace last winter for almost 4 weeks. Good luck with your decision.

[MT Gianni]

Natural gas is immediately shut off with any seismic activity so my natural gas supplier tells me
It will take a huge propane tank to run a 10KW generator because natural and propane gas have far less energy than gasoline has
There still is NO CAN to put electricity into that you created yesterday ..we still do not have the technology
Elon Musk has told the US Gov't they are idiots in that there is not the technology YET to store electric energy
Get a gas fired electric start inverter generator and run it 2 hours a day twice a day and your freezers are good to go
I say inverter type because most modern alliances have circuit boards and processors in them as well as large household stuff as simple as modern furnaces and refrigerators have processors and circuit boards
There is not a storage battery on the planet that is not dying the day it is built and does not accelerate that death every time you charge it period ..
No magic ..beware of Kool-Aid sellers

Bear

Generally if it shuts off it is through an earthquake valve at the meter set. This is reset with an allen wrench once the system checks out. The company I worked for had around 250,000 meters and estimated a relight for all of them at once to run over $25 million. Additionally,seismic activity occurs daily.
https://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes/map/?extent=23.24135,-126.12305&extent=48.07808,-69.87305&listOnlyShown=true

[elmacgyver0]

Why the 25-year life span?
Shouldn't they work forever as long as there is sun?
Are they truly turning light energy into electricity?
Perhaps they are only producing electricity by exciting electrons to flow similar to a vacuum tube exciting electrons to flow though heat from the heater coil.
So once the electrons are depleted, they are dead, like a vacuum tube.

[lancem]

Why the 25-year life span?
Shouldn't they work forever as long as there is sun?
Are they truly turning light energy into electricity?
Perhaps they are only producing electricity by exciting electrons to flow similar to a vacuum tube exciting electrons to flow though heat from the heater coil.
So once the electrons are depleted, they are dead, like a vacuum tube.

I don't remember the numbers but the 25 year lifespan is for a percentage of output. Like 75% of original output after 25 years. The panels degrade over time like anything else, though they will still be putting out power just not the original spec amount. For me the great deals come from buying used solar panels, I bought a big batch last year, 325W panels for $40 each shipped, they will probably last my lifetime. I have enough panels that even at a reduced output I have more power than I require.

[MaryB]

Most solar panels are specced at 80% output after 20 years, I have a 50+ year old 12 volt panel that tickle charges the lawn mower. Just a little 10 watt panel that was super expensive back in the day. It is still putting out 70% rated power! The silicon degrades over time, UV damage, near miss lightning can cause damage... those damages accumulate dropping panel output.

[Mal Paso]

I have some ARCO (Atlantic Richfield Oil Company) panels that are 40 years old and still working. Inverters are pretty bulletproof too, failure is rare. Batteries are more of a consumable, have a limited number of cycles.

[.429&H110]

Almost off topic...
When I retired we were putting Variable Frequency Drives on every motor large and small.

A VFD starting your freezer will softstart, only drawing a few amps, instead of locked rotor amps.
some freezers do not equalize pressure across the compressor and are like starting a car against compression.
A capillary tube freezer with a definite off cycle equalizes and just spins to start, like unloading an air compressor.

Nobody is stopping you from adding insulation, closed cell foam, new freezers go cheap on insulation
the Chinese hate us so they assemble junk in Costa Rica ship it here NAFTA for free. Don't buy it.
Keep minimum air space in the freezer; a full freezer is a happy freezer
and a frostfree freezer thaws every day, there is supposed to be frost, it's a freezer!
and old freezers have waterlogged insulation that is no help
So short story long, it depends on the freezer...and so do you.

[.429&H110]

As an old man rant
I taught the kids to rebuild a six cylinder Carlyle compressor cast iron from 1948 parts were $16,000
weighs 3/4 ton, 75HP, they are working up another, good kids, I passed the baton.

Tecumseh made compressors in Louisiana
Out-sourced to Bangladesh in the 80's
Bangladesh made poor compressors for a decade, but now the good compressors come from Bangladesh
So they cost too much and got out-sourced to China starting the quality control all over again.
The Japanese and Koreans would not buy from China so they set up in Taiwan.

America does make compressors, so does Denmark, but they are expensive.
America will only buy cheap plastic crap, cars or refrigerators. I can kick in a bumper with my boot.

Beckett oil burners in the 80's bought a batch of Marathon burner motors with centrifugal switch start.
I could hold the motor shaft with my hand my assistant plugged it in, I could hold the motor until it smoked.
The motor has to start an oil pump, it's not that hard to turn.
Customer paid $4000 for a new furnace, no heat the next day. Bad for business, replacement motor was junk, too.
Don't try this at home but I melted three motors for the factory rep.
So Beckett set up a factory in Croatia to make PSC motors cheaper and better, I can't stop those at all,
and Beckett designed a double ended burner motor which revolutionized water heaters.

If we don't build it, somebody else will.

[Handloader109]

I looked into getting a solar generator for my house because I liked the idea of not using gas and thought it would be quieter and more accessible. If the power went out, I needed something to keep my appliances running without trouble.Be aware that if you have a solar array and are ON grid, i.e. regular power from the utility, the solar panels have a disconnect switch when the power goes off. mandatory from the power company due to potential back feed of the solar into the system. Some systems have ONE, 115v 15 amp outlet that is powered...

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[MaryB]

Be aware that if you have a solar array and are ON grid, i.e. regular power from the utility, the solar panels have a disconnect switch when the power goes off. mandatory from the power company due to potential back feed of the solar into the system. Some systems have ONE, 115v 15 amp outlet that is powered...

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Unless you have a hybrid on/off grid inverter and batteries. The inverter will charge the batteries first before exporting to the grid. If power goes down it disconnects from the grid and switches to batteries. Note, NOT cheap! https://www.ecodirect.com/Outback-FXR2524A-01-2-5kW-24V-Sealed-Grid-Hybrid-p/outback-fxr2524a-01.htm but it will power a lot more of your house than those so called solar generator toys sold online!

[elmacgyver0]

I don't remember the numbers but the 25 year lifespan is for a percentage of output. Like 75% of original output after 25 years. The panels degrade over time like anything else, though they will still be putting out power just not the original spec amount. For me the great deals come from buying used solar panels, I bought a big batch last year, 325W panels for $40 each shipped, they will probably last my lifetime. I have enough panels that even at a reduced output I have more power than I require.

Where do you buy these used $40 solar panels?

[MaryB]

Where do you buy these used $40 solar panels?

Some of the big dealers get them in from failed projects that went under... or were hail damaged so badly that ALL the panels needed replacing to keep them in balance. If you mix solar panel outputs the new panel will drop to the output of the oldest/least output.

[lancem]

Where do you buy these used $40 solar panels?

https://www.santansolar.com/product-category/solar-panels/used-solar-panels/

Prices and availability have changed since I bought mine years ago, best deals are in buying in quantity like anything. I'm sure there are other sources but I have purchased from these guys.