Cast in .308 win issue ( Rem 700 bolt )

[Krh1326]

Guys.. I’m beyond frustrated with this rifle. It is a brand spanking new, never fired , Rem 700.
I bought it for my brother ( Sgt USMC ret, Scout/ Sniper, Counter Sniper Spec, Quantico Scout/Sniper Inst ), so the closest I could get, to his beloved M40, within my own means, was a new Rem 700.

It will cycle and chamber factory j-word ammo, no problem. For the very life of me, I cannot get it to fully chamber ANY of my half dozen .30 cal cast boolits…

I have not fired it, and I have not slugged it, as I want to give it to him PRISTINE and factory mint.

I tried sets of dummy boolits sized in steps of .311, .310 and .309 . Every piece of brass carefully processed … sized, trimmed. I have the .309 and .310 neck expanders, and have made separate sets with both sizes. I even tried to go straight from Small Base sizing die, to seating die, with the slightest bell possible, barely enough to accept .309 sized cast boolits. Every single cartridge attempt easily passes cartridge case drop in block, even after loading.

I got so frustrated, I bought some Sierra 175gr HPBT ( his beloved “hogs tooth”) and some Hornady 150gr BTSP. I made up two dummy rounds of each, in the same carefully processed brass, without doing any neck sizing… going straight from SB sizing die, to seating die ( as they are all boat tails).
All of them feed, cycle and chamber very nicely.

I sat down with those j-word dummies and the .309 cast dummies , in both .309 neck sized and non neck sized. I can’t find any variations in neck measurements that exceed .005
To anger me even further, half of the cast bullet profiles ( the lighter ones ) are even smaller , in exposed profile, than the J-words , in diameter and length.

POI: when I say won’t chamber, I mean they feed from mag, enter the chamber, and start to seat, but just can’t get that last little < 3/16” to close bolt.

I tried to use excessive pressure on the bolt, hoping to mark the powder coat or brass… and have not found any marking at all.

After any dummy has failed to go to battery, I even ran it back thru SB sizer die, with boolit in place, and still won’t chamber.

I do not have these issues loading 30-30 nor .300 BO. I do not have 30-06 to try and compare.
I am at witts end. I actually just ordered a .308 push thru, well … because… it can’t hurt to try, at this point.

I am running out of time, to try to figure this cast issue out, before I have to give him the gift.
I know frustration leads to complications and compounding problems… so any help is more than appreciated.

305239 305240
305241

[HumptyDumpty]

I'd wager the throat is too tight. I've recently encountered the same problem with cast boolits in a 10mm Sig P320; that extra thousandth of an inch bulges the brass just enough to cause problems. I got them to reliably chamber by removing the decapping pin, and running the completed rounds through my sizing die.

[M-Tecs]

Blacken the case and bullet with a sharpie and see where the contact is. One you know that you can address the cause.

[Krh1326]

I'd wager the throat is too tight. I've recently encountered the same problem with cast boolits in a 10mm Sig P320; that extra thousandth of an inch bulges the brass just enough to cause problems. I got them to reliably chamber by removing the decapping pin, and running the completed rounds through my sizing die.

I have encountered that, every once in a while, with an odd boolit, here and there, and that remedy always seems to work. But having tried that, on every single dummy, after failing to chamber, still results in no-go.

Could a tight throat be a “new, non fired rifle” issue? Meaning after running many factory rounds, could it wear a little?

[Krh1326]

Blacken the case and bullet with a sharpie and see where the contact is. One you know that you can address the cause.

Simplisticly perfect..!! Thank you, will try as soon as I muster up to go back into the barn.

[Winger Ed.]

Just a guess, but I think your empty case may not be sized enough.
drawing with a sharpie on the entire round should tell you where the problem is.

This reminds of the same thing happening in my early days.
I bought a brand new Lee .308 dies set, and 1,000 fired GI 7.62 NATO.

I set everything up, Lee die going all the way down onto the Lee shell holder with my new Hornady single stage press.
Being trusting, and not knowing any better: I then sized & deprimed all 1,000 brass.

Not a single one would chamber in a rack grade Springfield M1A.
They stuck out about 1/8" from going on in.

I got a new Hornady die set, sized and checked the first 2-3, and lived happily ever after.

[Krh1326]

This reminds of the same thing happening in my early days.

I bought a brand new Lee .308 dies set, and 1,000 fired GI 7.62 NATO.

I set everything up, Lee die going all the way down onto the Lee shell holder with my new Hornady single stage press.
Being trusting, and not knowing any better: I then sized & deprimed all 1,000 brass.

Not a single one would chamber in a rack grade Springfield M1A.
They stuck out about 1/8" from going on in.

I got a new Hornady die set, sized and checked the first 2-3, and lived happily ever after.

Do you find the RCBS Small Base dies, to be any better than the Lee? On par with the Hornady?
I’m using brand new ( just for this project ) RCBS Small Base dies.

[Larry Gibson]

If the rounds chamber with .308 jacketed bullets then the sizing die and sizing of the cases is not the problem. Your cast bullets are the problem. The sizing of those is probably not the problem either. Best bet is the nose of the cast bullets (you don't mention the specific cast bullet(s) you're using?) is the problem or you're not seating them deep enough and the front of the front drive band is jamming into the leade.

What is the diameter of the bullet nose in front of the drive band(s)?

BTW, there should be no need for a SB die with that rifle. It will be much better served with a set (including both FL & NS dies) of Bonanza Benchrest Dies.

[crackers]

"I tried to use excessive pressure on the bolt, hoping to mark the powder coat or brass…"

Measure some of those six noses. Anything over .300 is going to be a problem when it's long enough to interfere with the rifling.

[Krh1326]

If the rounds chamber with .308 jacketed bullets then the sizing die and sizing of the cases is not the problem. Your cast bullets are the problem. The sizing of those is probably not the problem either. Best bet is the nose of the cast bullets (you don't mention the specific cast bullet(s) you're using?) is the problem or you're not seating them deep enough and the front of the front drive band is jamming into the leade.

What is the diameter of the bullet nose in front of the drive band(s)?

BTW, there should be no need for a SB die with that rifle. It will be much better served with a set (including both FL & NS dies) of Bonanza Benchrest Dies.

I should have indicated the molds…
Not that I expect to use each of them, just included these all for fit and test.

Lee C309-170-F. .3010
Lee C309-180-R. .3010
Lee TL309-230-5R. .3010
Lee C312-155-2R. .3080
MP 311-410. .3085
MP 308 Hunt HP .3085

[Krh1326]

I should have indicated the molds…
Not that I expect to use each of them, just included these all for fit and test.

Lee C309-170-F. .3010
Lee C309-180-R. .3010
Lee TL309-230-5R. .3010
Lee C312-155-2R. .3080
MP 311-410. .3085
MP 308 Hunt HP .3085

I am finding that the Lee molds are not round, lmao … these measurements are the largest of the diameters that I can find.

[405grain]

Larry's right, the problem isn't your brass or your sizing - it's the cast bullets. Here's the clue: "I tried to use excessive pressure on the bolt, hoping to MARK THE POWDER COAT or brass… and have not found any marking at all." Are you doing a typical shake-n-bake powder coat? When you powder coat cast bullets the coating enlarges the diameter of the whole bullet. You can run the bullet through a sizing die, but that only sizes the driving bands. If the nose of the bullet is too large in diameter the cartridge will not chamber.

I was experiencing this exact same problem with several of my rifles. The suggestion to seat the bullets deeper won't help with bore riding designs, and would most likely require placing the gas check well below the case shoulder which usually doesn't do accuracy any favors. Some casters have used nose sizing dies to try to solve this problem. I went that route, but soon discovered that it would make the nose the correct diameter, but that it would then no longer be concentric with the driving bands. Finally I started using a process to powder coat just the driving bands and leave the nose bare. It's more time consuming than just doing a shake and bake, but coating the whole bullet makes them totally useless in my firearms because then they can't be chambered. Even with coating just the driving bands the bullet prep takes no longer than say, paper patching.

Here's a quick and easy way to determine if the powder coating is what's causing your troubles; Make up a dummy round with a bullet that has no powder coating. Just run it through a .309" sizer and load it into a sized case. If it chambers without any issues the problem is that the powder coat is making the nose too fat. If the dummy still won't chamber there's some other issue going on. Here's a snapshot of some of the bullets made in the way I described.
305242

[Krh1326]

Larry's right, the problem isn't your brass or your sizing - it's the cast bullets. Here's the clue: "I tried to use excessive pressure on the bolt, hoping to MARK THE POWDER COAT or brass… and have not found any marking at all." Are you doing a typical shake-n-bake powder coat? When you powder coat cast bullets the coating enlarges the diameter of the whole bullet. You can run the bullet through a sizing die, but that only sizes the driving bands. If the nose of the bullet is too large in diameter the cartridge will not chamber.

I was experiencing this exact same problem with several of my rifles. The suggestion to seat the bullets deeper won't help with bore riding designs, and would most likely require placing the gas check well below the case shoulder which usually doesn't do accuracy any favors. Some casters have used nose sizing dies to try to solve this problem. I went that route, but soon discovered that it would make the nose the correct diameter, but that it would then no longer be concentric with the driving bands. Finally I started using a process to powder coat just the driving bands and leave the nose bare. It's more time consuming than just doing a shake and bake, but coating the whole bullet makes them totally useless in my firearms because then they can't be chambered. Even with coating just the driving bands the bullet prep takes no longer than say, paper patching.

Here's a quick and easy way to determine if the powder coating is what's causing your troubles; Make up a dummy round with a bullet that has no powder coating. Just run it through a .309" sizer and load it into a sized case. If it chambers without any issues the problem is that the powder coat is making the nose too fat. If the dummy still won't chamber there's some other issue going on. Here's a snapshot of some of the bullets made in the way I described.
305242

Wow those are purty!

I get what you are both saying…. It’s killing me, as the same boolits fly out of son’s .300 BO AR…
Calling it a night. Back to drawing board, in AM

[Hahndorf1874]

I use the Lyman 311644BV mold ,sized to .309 ,it is a tapered pill fits most .308 throats ,easy peasy shoots like a dart, sub and Min. MOA in my Schultz and Larsen mod 62. 30 grains of varget,LLA lube. BTW it shoots in my other 308 s as well. Cheers Mal in au.

[TurnipEaterDown]

A 'cobbler' way to check the bullet nose for interference w/o slugging throat or casting the chamber would be to simply take a DUMMY BULLET and turn the nose down a thousandth, and two thousandths, etc. until it chambers. This can be done with a piece of sandpaper wrapped on the nose of the bullet and turning by grabbing the base. Make sure no grit gets embedded to get carried into the chamber, and never use a modified bullet like this to shoot -- Murphy will embed a bit of grit somewhere...

This should help you diagnose nose fit in another manner if you need, and has a side benefit of putting circumferential grooves in the nose that will show contact marks from throat / leade a little easier.

I have brought the body of DUMMY cast bullets down this way to slip fit in stoney point modified cases (wildcats where I had just Sized cases to make modified to fit the tool and I hadn't fired anything to the chamber yet).

I also have a rifle that has a tight throat that allows jacketed bullets of full bore body dia to seat out past magazine length and yet chamber, but a cast bullet 0.001 over bore has to be seated much short of magazine length. In a funnel throat this nose diameter feature isn't as noticeable as a in parallel throat. By SAAMI drawing, the 308 Winchester has a 0.310" parallel throat for 0.090". Stated tolerance is +.002, -0.000. Sometimes things get past factory checks or SPC.

[charlie b]

Yep. My Savage has the same kind of issue. When using a 'std' bullet, like the NOE XCB, it must be seated deep in the case. Powder coating just makes this worse. When using bore riding designs they may need to be nose sized to fit inside the rifling, and they may still be seated with the base below the neck.

The SAAMI spec for .308 shows a short throat. Most cast bullets do not have much of an ogive so they must be seated deeper.

I still get good accuracy from cast bullets, including the XCB and some of the Lee designs (C309 150 to 200gn). They just get seated deep.

Do as mentioned with a black sharpie to see where on the bullet the rifling engages. Then seat the bullet deeper. And, yes, you will be seating them deeper than the crimp grooves.

[Multra]

This is why I switched over to hi-tek from powder coating. PC just adds too much girth to the nose of the bullet and makes chambering in some firearms a pain.

[TurnipEaterDown]

A 'cobbler' way to check the bullet nose for interference w/o slugging throat or casting the chamber would be to simply take a DUMMY BULLET and turn the nose down a thousandth, and two thousandths, etc. until it chambers. This can be done with a piece of sandpaper wrapped on the nose of the bullet and turning by grabbing the base. Make sure no grit gets embedded to get carried into the chamber, and never use a modified bullet like this to shoot -- Murphy will embed a bit of grit somewhere...

This should help you diagnose nose fit in another manner if you need, and has a side benefit of putting circumferential grooves in the nose that will show contact marks from throat / leade a little easier.

I have brought the body of DUMMY cast bullets down this way to slip fit in stoney point modified cases (wildcats where I had just Sized cases to make modified to fit the tool and I hadn't fired anything to the chamber yet).

I also have a rifle that has a tight throat that allows jacketed bullets of full bore body dia to seat out past magazine length and yet chamber, but a cast bullet 0.001 over bore has to be seated much short of magazine length. In a funnel throat this nose diameter feature isn't as noticeable as a in parallel throat. By SAAMI drawing, the 308 Winchester has a 0.310" parallel throat for 0.090". Stated tolerance is +.002, -0.000. Sometimes things get past factory checks or SPC.

My thought organizer / self checker was pretty compromised when I wrote the other post here...

I was trying to say:
Nose dia (portion ahead of driving band, less than body dia) is related to bore dia. Nominally 0.300. Rifling marks should be present if interferring. Still can check by turning slightly like I mentioned.
Body / driving band fit is important to throat, and the 308 is supposed to be parallel for 0.090 at 0.310. This should relate to how far the driving band can extend past mount of case. If sized 0.310, could well interfere on a tight throat. If sized 0.309, should pass unless sub spec on throat.

My bad on the hash I made of my original comment / attempt to contribute. Was pretty muddled it seems...

[Larry Gibson]

I should have indicated the molds…
Not that I expect to use each of them, just included these all for fit and test.

Lee C309-170-F. .3010
Lee C309-180-R. .3010
Lee TL309-230-5R. .3010
Lee C312-155-2R. .3080
MP 311-410. .3085
MP 308 Hunt HP .3085

If you have any of the first 3 Lee bullets not PC'd yet size one .310, seat and then see how it chambers. If it chambers, it's the PC that is causing the problem.

I have a bunch of Bore riders in various calibers for use in rifles. I have obtained then so the nose fits the bore. The PC them would simply cause the problems you have. Another reason I haven't jumped on the PC wagon.

[Ben]

The nose of the cast bullet is too large.

Ben

[Krh1326]

I use the Lyman 311644BV mold ,sized to .309 ,it is a tapered pill fits most .308 throats ,easy peasy shoots like a dart, sub and Min. MOA in my Schultz and Larsen mod 62. 30 grains of varget,LLA lube. BTW it shoots in my other 308 s as well. Cheers Mal in au.

I google searched for this mold, and am not finding one for sale. None of the Lee molds seem similar, in any way. Can anyone recommend AN AVAILABLE mold, from any of the other manufacturers? Other Lyman molds? NOE , Accurate, MP etc?

[gwpercle]

If you have any of the first 3 Lee bullets not PC'd yet size one .310, seat and then see how it chambers. If it chambers, it's the PC that is causing the problem.

I have a bunch of Bore riders in various calibers for use in rifles. I have obtained then so the nose fits the bore. The PC them would simply cause the problems you have. Another reason I haven't jumped on the PC wagon.

:goodpost:
Excellent Advice !

The Lee C309-170-F should work for this as Larry outlines .
It works in my 30-06 with it's minimum dimensioned (tight) chamber and throat ... but they can't be powder coated and must be sized .309" ... for many years I sized them .308" because that was the size listed in Lyman Cast Bullet #3 ... .309" is max.

Gary

[popper]

Also check the case length. 9.62 is different from 308W. AR10 would take 7.62 & 308W, Henry won't so I have to trim.

[Char-Gar]

You have one of two problems going on:

1. You have the bullets seated out so far, you are trying to jam the bullet body past the chamber throat into the rifling.
2. The bullet nose is too large to engrave on the rifling.

I have no issues shooting cast in my Remington 700 .308. The case neck is short, so I use the RCBS165 SIL, sized .310. None of this PC stuff for me.

[quilbilly]

I have been using that Lee 155RNGC in a Remington 7xx series for years. New right out of the box that rifle shot MOA and fed with that boolit which I sized to 308 and lubed with the Lee Alox. Like Larry, I haven't jumped on the PC wagon yet even though I bought all the necessaries some time ago. I also seat that boolit so the gas check is even with the bottom of the neck.

[Krh1326]

I have been using that Lee 155RNGC in a Remington 7xx series for years. New right out of the box that rifle shot MOA and fed with that boolit which I sized to 308 and lubed with the Lee Alox. Like Larry, I haven't jumped on the PC wagon yet even though I bought all the necessaries some time ago. I also seat that boolit so the gas check is even with the bottom of the neck.


The C312-155 ? The one folks are using for 300 BO? Mine is dropping .307 forward of the drive bands.
I just set up several un coated 170-Fs and 180-Rs, like Larry and others suggested. I set the boolits at various depths, to find the longest one, that chambers.

I’m going to set up a set of those 155s at the same various depths, as well. So you sized to .308 ? My .308 sizer hasn’t arrived, yet. .309 is my smallest, ATM. When you say “check set to end of neck” , do you mean the leading edge of check, or the base of the check? I’m going to make both in this set.

I can’t thank you all enough.

BTW, brother popped into my barn, while I was working on this. I thought I was busted. I had just stuck rifle back in box, and set it, under work bench. I had .308 brass out on bench, bunch of .308 dies and such, and right in the middle of it all…. The boxes of 175 HPBTs and 150 BTSPs . He saw them and asked about them ( he knows I don’t haz .308 ) being I’m a .35 Rem hunter. Took some quick fibbing to throw him off the trail….. close call.

[M-Tecs]

Maximum external dimensions between the 308 Winchester case and the 7.62mm NATO are identical. The chambers do have different specs with the 7.62 NATO being somewhat larger. Case length SAAMI for the 308 Win is 2.015" -0.020". Headspace on the cartridge is 1.634" - 0.007". The 762 NATO case length is 2.015" - 0.015. Headspace on the cartridge is 1.634" - 0.006".

[Krh1326]

My trimmer is set to 2.010 ( listed case length was 2.015 with a trim to of 2.005 ) I aimed to split the difference. Every single piece of brass, that I am trying, has come in at 2.010
Am just trying for consistency, while trouble shooting.

[MUSTANG]

Nose on your cast boolits is too large after powder coating (possibly before?). With my Remington 700 ADL Varmint Bolt-Action .308 I have to Size the Nose of my cast and Powder Coated boolits to get them to chamber.

1. Order a "CUSTOM" Lee bullet swage die at .301 inches.


https://leeprecision.com/custom-lube-and-size-kit/

2. Size the NOSE ONLY of your cast boolits. I turn the .301 die into the RCBS Rock Chucker Press only 2 full turns. I lube the nose area of the cast boolits (311290, 311299, RCBS 165 Sil, RCBS 200 Sil, Lee 170 gr .309, etc..). I then cycle the press - sizing the boolit nose (2 turns into press only); then I have to drive the Boolit out of the die using either a cut off hard wood dowel or steel punch of ~.270 to .298 diameter and hammer.

3. I then size the entire bullet bases and seat gas checks using a Lee .310 sizing die. Pushing each boolit entirely through the Lee .310 Sizing die. Then seat the overall length I desire.

Examples:

https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?439569-311290-in-the-308-Winchester-using-BLC2-Powder&highlight=

https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?438595-RCBS-200-Sil-Powder-Coated-in-308-Winchester&highlight=

[Krh1326]

I thank you sir, I am getting along those lines, now.

I didn’t order a custom one, as I have ordered one in the past, and found it took a long time to get. I found a .285 with Amazon Prime , that I plan to lap.

[charlie b]

I guess my Lee 180gn mold cast small. They fit in my .308 after powder coating. My land dia at the throat is .302. At the muzzle it is .300.

I tried other bullets. The RCBS 165SIL and Lyman 311299, both conventional lube, sized .309. The RCBS fit my bore almost perfectly. The Lyman could be chambered but was a very tight fit (almost would not chamber). Made me realize the issue with bore riding bullets and the short throat area of the .308 (and relatively short neck vs the .30-06).

So, when I ordered a mold from Accurate (31-210E) I specified the nose dia to allow powder coating (.300" -.002). He allows a tolerance of .002. It can be either +/- .002, +.002 or -.002. The good thing is they cast almost exactly .300.

I have two nose size bushings from NOE. One is .299 and the other is .302. After casting I size the noses to .299. After PC I size them to .302. The second just barely touches the PC'd bullets.

The bases and drive bands are all sized to .310.

So, you can use powder coat on bore riders, you just have to size the noses to fit. Just as I would have to nose size the 311299 to fit, even with conventional lube.

305276

[405grain]

This thread has got me thinking! I'd previously tried nose sizing, but had bad results. I machined a 7/8-14 die body that accepts Redding neck bushings, and used that as a nose sizing die. It sized the bullet nose really good, and with a wide selection of neck bushings available I could tailor the nose size to whatever I wanted. The problem I was having was that the sized nose would no longer be concentric with the driving bands. With the nose "off center" there would be little prospect of accuracy. At that time I was thinking that about the only way to correct for this would be to make what would almost amount to a swage die - sizing both the nose and driving bands at the same time. Instead I went in another direction and began powder coating just the driving bands, leaving the bullet nose bare.

charlie b's post above just kicked me in the head like a mule! Why not machine a die that holds a stack of two neck bushings? In example: the lower bushing could be .309" in diameter, and the one stacked on top of it could be .301". The die body would hold both bushings in perfect alignment. With this set up (if it works) both the nose section and the driving bands could be sized at the same time. Neck bushings are available in a huge amount of sizes in .001" increments, and most bushing manufacturers use the same external dimensions so there's even brand interchangeability. Again "if this works", using different size bushings, a die set like this might be able to size practically any caliber bore riding bullet and keep the nose & driving bands concentric. I'm going to start drawing up some plans, and once it starts raining this winter and I get cabin fever I'll machine some stock and see where this ends up. This is one of the fun things about casting bullets: there's always something more to try and to learn.

[Krh1326]

That sounds genius!
I’d be very happy to do some field testing ;)

[charlie b]

I thought about your idea as well, but, I have good luck with just the nose die.

BUT...the base of the bullet must be held centered on the bushing. The NOE setup comes with a standard ram. If you are not really careful with how you set the bullet on the ram it can jam the bullet sideways a bit, which will cause bending.

I replaced the NOE ram with a bullet holder (machined to fit on the reloading press ram) that is bored to accept the sized bullet base. The bored hole is also deep enough that the holder touches the size bushing when the nose us fully sized (this would need to be changed for each bullet design). That way every bullet is sized exactly the same length.

You could probably make a 'sleeve' that fits over the ram and is reamed to the sized bullet base. The length could also serve as a 'stop' the same as my bullet holder. Washers could be used to adjust the length of the sized section of the bullet. (Now that I mention this I may have to try it :) ).

The nose bushing also makes a short tapered section on the bullet. The bullet is seated in the case such that the tapered section is touching (or lightly jammed) into the rifling.

If pursuing the dual bushing method keep in mind the design of the size bushings. There is only a very short bearing surface. Most of the bushing is a tapered section.

[farmbif]

the Lyman 311299 is a bullet design that has been very popular and shoots very well for quite a few folks and just plain works for me in both the 308 win and 30-06 in every gun I've tried them in, savages and Remington 700's.

[MUSTANG]

This thread has got me thinking! I'd previously tried nose sizing, but had bad results. I machined a 7/8-14 die body that accepts Redding neck bushings, and used that as a nose sizing die. It sized the bullet nose really good, and with a wide selection of neck bushings available I could tailor the nose size to whatever I wanted. The problem I was having was that the sized nose would no longer be concentric with the driving bands. With the nose "off center" there would be little prospect of accuracy. At that time I was thinking that about the only way to correct for this would be to make what would almost amount to a swage die - sizing both the nose and driving bands at the same time. Instead I went in another direction and began powder coating just the driving bands, leaving the bullet nose bare.

charlie b's post above just kicked me in the head like a mule! Why not machine a die that holds a stack of two neck bushings? In example: the lower bushing could be .309" in diameter, and the one stacked on top of it could be .301". The die body would hold both bushings in perfect alignment. With this set up (if it works) both the nose section and the driving bands could be sized at the same time. Neck bushings are available in a huge amount of sizes in .001" increments, and most bushing manufacturers use the same external dimensions so there's even brand interchangeability. Again "if this works", using different size bushings, a die set like this might be able to size practically any caliber bore riding bullet and keep the nose & driving bands concentric. I'm going to start drawing up some plans, and once it starts raining this winter and I get cabin fever I'll machine some stock and see where this ends up. This is one of the fun things about casting bullets: there's always something more to try and to learn.

This would be an interesting build. To do it more effectively; one would need an arrangement similar to BT Snipers Swaging die sets to remove the boolits from the two stack die. (Size on downstroke of handle and eject on upstroke of handle).

305314

I have a similar arrangement I purchased from BT Sniper to swage 5/16 copper tubing into Jackets for .308 caliber bullets. The one above is a Lee based set; mine is for an RCBS Rockchucker press.

[405grain]

Hey Mustang: I read your posts on the site and you're one of the guys that's pushing the envelope. FYI: I already made a bullet extractor based on the BT Sniper design when I machined my first nose sizing die.

Just a heads up to Krh1326: This researching new stuff takes time, and it sounds like your hard pressed to deliver your brother's rifle. I suggest that you don't wait on trying to find a solution to the cast problem, and load him up some jacketed ammo so you can make the gift. Then you'll have the time to sort out what works and what doesn't as far as cast loads go. Maybe the fastest and easiest solution would be to get a mold that's designed specifically for powder coating. I totally understand your wanting to gift a rifle to your Bro. I was an E5 in the Navy in the late 70's & early 80's. My kid brother was an E4 in the Army stationed in Berlin. He was there when the wall came down. When he came back home I gave him my M1 Garand.

[Krh1326]

Hey Mustang: I read your posts on the site and you're one of the guys that's pushing the envelope. FYI: I already made a bullet extractor based on the BT Sniper design when I machined my first nose sizing die.

Just a heads up to Krh1326: This researching new stuff takes time, and it sounds like your hard pressed to deliver your brother's rifle. I suggest that you don't wait on trying to find a solution to the cast problem, and load him up some jacketed ammo so you can make the gift. Then you'll have the time to sort out what works and what doesn't as far as cast loads go. Maybe the fastest and easiest solution would be to get a mold that's designed specifically for powder coating. I totally understand your wanting to gift a rifle to your Bro. I was an E5 in the Navy in the late 70's & early 80's. My kid brother was an E4 in the Army stationed in Berlin. He was there when the wall came down. When he came back home I gave him my M1 Garand.

Reluctantly seeing your point… loaded up a bunch of the Hog Tooth 175s , and a bunch of the 150 BTSPs.
He came so very close to busting me, once already, so I’m fixing to go that route. I have never loaded 30-06 rifle , and the closest thing to .308 win I’ve done , is sons AR in 300 BO. I’m an old lever guy, and I definately do not have the PC prob with .35 Rem. That 300 BO eats up all of these exact same boolits with full PCing, so that’s throwing me with the .308W.

But ….. I never surrender…. Look wut I did….

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But I did it a little different. I dissolved some Eastwood Ford Dark into some acetone, and just brushed it on. Let it dry, then baked’em.

[405grain]

Those bullets look really good. That's a clever idea painting the driving bands. I know that I've posted about it in another thread, but there's another hack I've learned that's made life easier. Standing up tubby pistol bullets on a piece of parchment paper and then sticking them in the toaster oven works great, but trying to stand long skinny rifle bullets on their ends isn't always fun. If even one bullet falls over it causes a domino effect, and that type of frustration is something that we can do without. There's also the issue of the powder coat sometimes forming an edge (fining) around the base of the bullet as it cooks, and this can cause problems when trying to seat the gas checks. What I needed was a way to cure the powder coat with the base of the bullet facing up, and a way to prevent any of the bullets from falling over.

Because the bulk of the rifle bullets I cast are 6.5mm, 7mm, & 30 caliber I got a piece of perforated stainless sheet metal with 5/16" holes from Amazon. I bent the edges down so that the sheet metal will stand proud of the plate that I use for curing by about 3/8". I made up a tray for powder coating out of 1/8" thick aluminum plate because the flimsy sheet metal trays in the toaster oven would sag under the weight of bullets. I put a piece of parchment paper between the plate and the perforated sheet metal to keep the mess to a minimum. When I'm curing a batch of powder coated bullets I place them nose down in through the perforated sheet and that holds them from falling over. With their butts in the air, the powder coat cures evenly over the gas check shank. So far I've done about 600 bullets this way and it has worked great.
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[Krh1326]

Very clever !

I was rushing it, between making j-word cartridges.
As I painted the bands and base, I got the idea to stick the gas check on, while pc was still wet, and they all slipped right on. Baked them standing up, then sized/ crimped. They are actually crimp and “glued” now, lol.

Not very efficient for large quantities, but worked for these dozen or so.

[mehavey]

When you have bore-riders, best to simply ALOX them.

As to MAX OAL . . .
- Close the bolt and run a cleaning rod down to meet the bolt face. Mark it at the muzzle (just a piece of masking tape will do at this point)
- Remove bolt. Drop a sized bare bullet into the throat/held firmly there with a pencil from the rear. Cleaning rod down the muzzle to stop at bullet. What is distance from muzzle to masking tape? (MAX OAL for that bullet)
- Ditto with a sized PC'd bullet . . . what is distance to masking tape?

I wager you'll have isolated the problem....

[Krh1326]

Thank you all so much for the help.

Surprise went over without a hitch….
And I just checked the cast dummies, that I had made, without the PC on noses. They all chambered, and they actually did so, with out setting them any deeper.

Thank you all, again.

[Hahndorf1874]

You could be correct re 311644bv, it is an old mould,there is one similar listed as 311644 no bv on the end ,the nose looks a little different mine has a grouve near the front,the 311644 has only a faint ring instead. Cheers Mal in au. It is listed in The LymanCast Bullet Book No 4 edition.

[charlie b]

Thank you all so much for the help.

Surprise went over without a hitch….
And I just checked the cast dummies, that I had made, without the PC on noses. They all chambered, and they actually did so, with out setting them any deeper.

Thank you all, again.

Congrats. It is amazing how much difference 0.002" in dia makes on the ogive.

[Digger]

Just want to thank every one here for all their input as I was having the same problem with my .308"s ...
Digging around in my stash of molds , found a Lyman 311332 .
With that sized and lubed to .309 , happy camper , just touches the lands and functions fine .
Powder coated it's just a bit snug but still functions 100 percent with out setting back from the crimp groove.
will proceed on loads and accuracy.