Sizing conicals...

[cwlongshot]

I posted this on a few forums..

I know its generally not sized. I also know generally there is no advantage to size these from a accuracy stand point...

BUT, I am having difficulty loading some I have cast. So thought I would try sizing them. I have a .498, .500 & .501 to try.

Wondered if anyone paved this road before?

CW

PS, like to try .54 too but see how 50 works. Then find proper sizers

[LAGS]

I feel that Sizing Conical for a rifle might help with consistant loading.
If you check your just cast slugs,
You will see that the do vary in Diameter and sometimes Out of Round.
But that is just a minor issue.
I had a rifle that was for Conicals only with a Deep Fast Twist.
But I also had a 2" long cut off section of the barrel that I built the rifle with.
I would Pre Groove the Conicals and size them with the section of barrel cut off.
That surely made loading much easier.
One other thing.
I marked the cut off section to the barrel , and marked the slugs so they once Grooved we're timed to go into the barrel.
It was a lot of extra work and took a little more time to reload the rifle.
But was Physically easier and Accuracy was more consistent.
I sold that rifle because it I really think that is a lot of extra labor unless you were using it strictly for long distance Target Shooting.
Hmmm
I just thought of something.
I could have pre grooved the slugs, then Powder coated them to help prevent leading in the barrel, then run them thru the barrel Cut off section again.
If I did the PC , I would have still used lube to prevent powder residue build up or fouling.

[Edward]

I never (EVER) size conicals ,just make sure your using pure BHN #6-7 on my Cabin Tree tester . If it gets sized it was not designed for sizing but is meant to engrave upon loading (example) Lee REAL is (rifling engraved at loading) /Minnis do the same with the base having a skirt that flairs to do the same (engage rifling) another mold I never ever size as it defeats the purpose (accuracy ) I again suspect your not using pure! I have cast hundreds of conicals/minnies
(thousands ) of my favorites and never had your problem but I test what I cast as I sell them also ,and never had a complaint either/ your mileage may vary but mine doesn't /Ed

[Maven]

CW, I answered you on the Art & Science forum.

[mattri]

Interesting question.

Do muzzleloaders tend to use a bullet .001-.002" over bore size like casting for cartridge loads?

[Good Cheer]

1 or 2 under if the mass and design of the boolit and the force of the powder charge will promote expansion into the rifling.

[cwlongshot]

Agreed. The BP REALLY boots them in the but. So combined with pure PB they generally obturate easily.

CW

[longcruise]

I worked with PCd maxi balls a bit last summer but didn't get too far along because I got messing with changing out tc stocks and haven't been able to do further testing. However I acquired what I need to shoot mor 50 cal and the process will be restarted.

But getting to the point (finally) i had to use a 501 sizer to load them. With the maxi the disadvantage of sizing is the he first band is a bit larger to center the bullet at the nose and leaving the base to bump up.

[Super Sneaky Steve]

I've done a lot of testing recently in 45 and 50 cal. I've found that solid base bullets are best sized 0.002 over bore. Will an undersized boolit bump up? It sure will but not right away. Before it does you'll have some gas blowing by and fouling accumulating there. 0.002 over bore is a bit of a push so expect some deformation unless you have a perfectly matching short starter.

[longcruise]

I've done a lot of testing recently in 45 and 50 cal. I've found that solid base bullets are best sized 0.002 over bore. Will an undersized boolit bump up? It sure will but not right away. Before it does you'll have some gas blowing by and fouling accumulating there. 0.002 over bore is a bit of a push so expect some deformation unless you have a perfectly matching short starter.

Have you tried any of the HB? I just acquired a Lee HB Modern Minie to play with.

[charlie b]

I've done a lot of testing recently in 45 and 50 cal. I've found that solid base bullets are best sized 0.002 over bore. Will an undersized boolit bump up? It sure will but not right away. Before it does you'll have some gas blowing by and fouling accumulating there. 0.002 over bore is a bit of a push so expect some deformation unless you have a perfectly matching short starter.

Not if you use a felt and/or card wad under the bullet :) If you do use a bore size bullet then the bullet alloy needs to be soft enough to bump up. 1-20 will work with a stiff charge of powder but I like something a little softer.

[OverMax]

I've never seen any accuracy shooting musket conical's.
Than again having Side locks only. I never bought a swap-out barrel for the purpose. I found having the correct twist rate is crucial so to shoot them sewing thimble look a'likes. I'm a traditionalist shooter ball_ maxi maybe a sabot or two now and then. Years ago I purchased alot of Ideal conical molds for my 45-54-58 cal Hawkins. Neither 1-48 or 1-66 twist showed no resemblance of accuracy. Eventually I gave up the chase of my shooting conical.

[missionary5155]

If you have not read Ned Roberts excellent book The Muzzle-Loading Cap Lock Rifle" a light want to. 100 year standing records are pretty good proof that some "observations" noted above (sizing) a be a bit under researched. Page 115 gets real interesting.

[charlie b]

Might also read up on the Brit vs US matches when the Rigby rifles were shot against the breechloaders. Bullets were sized to slip down the muzzle with only the weight of the ramrod.

[longcruise]

One thing I'm going to try with the PC maxis is pushing them base first into a 501 sizer and then extracting them with the front band remaining unsized . Maybe also experiment with partial sizing of the front band.

It's probably a project for 2023. Too many projects already!

[charlie b]

Why not just size them all the way to .501? I do that with the Hornady Great Plains bullets and it works well.

[cwlongshot]

Why not just size them all the way to .501? I do that with the Hornady Great Plains bullets and it works well.

Well Thats whay I was askin!!

I have a GP mold but have t used in a spell

Just picked up a REAL mold ta try.

CW

[Super Sneaky Steve]

Have you tried any of the HB? I just acquired a Lee HB Modern Minie to play with.

Yes, I've tried them in 50 and 45. I didn't have good luck with my fast twist in-lines. They like big solid boolits 0.002 over bore.

[charlie b]

Well Thats whay I was askin!!

I have a GP mold but have t used in a spell

Just picked up a REAL mold ta try.

CW

REAL bullets are different animals. They are meant to fully engage the rifling and seal the bore. They were meant to be a substitute for round ball, especially in the 'medium' twists. Also, they are a bit lighter than the GP and other solids. That means they will not 'upset' into the grooves as well if you size them to bore dia.

I use the Lee mold for the S&W 500. 440gn flat nose. Most of the time I paper patch them and use 80gn powder. The GP's are a bit lighter and they like 100gn charges. They seem to shoot better not patched, but, I can only get ~5 shots before the bore needs to be wiped/cleaned.

[Woodnbow]

I size all conicals, depending upon the rifle they may be sized to be a slip fit, (weight of the ramrod will seat the bullet) or a thousandth or so oversized for use in hunting rifles where you want them to seat on the charge and stay put. Generally the best accuracy is obtained by a bullet that will slip fit.

[cwlongshot]

Good info!!

Thank you