Dead CCI pistol primers

[John in WI]

I recently picked up a Rock Island .38 snubnose. I loaded 12 148gr WC and 12 158gr SWC and today took it out for a spin.

2 of the rounds in the first cylinder failed to fire, and 3 from the next cylinder. As a test, I ran 12 Aguila standard pressure and these ran without any problems.

All of the failed rounds showed nice, healthy primer strikes.
My primers were about 10 years old, but they were stored in a dry basement. I didn't want to use them, but with the local shortages it's all I had.

Is it possible for primers to go bad over the course of 10 years? I've heard a lot of reports of people using decades old ones.

[ShooterAZ]

I have had similar experiences with CCI SPP. If the revolver has a strain screw, make sure it's all the way tight. I have a couple of S&W revolvers that have been "tuned", and Federal SPP are the only ones that are 100% reliable in them.

[Brassmonkey]

After you pop them out can always (with ear pro) whack them with a hammer to test.

[ShooterAZ]

After you pop them out can always (with ear pro) whack them with a hammer to test.

And eye pro!

[Dusty Bannister]

CCI and Winchester are generally felt to be a little harder than other primer makes. That is why it is suggested that you adjust the hammer strain screw. Not sure about the Rock Island revolvers, but this works with most S&W with the leaf mainspring. Often this spring is loosened to make the trigger pull lighter, but is a compromise.

[dannyd]

CCI 450's did that to me, 17 out 100 failed to fire with Big dents in the primer cup. In 35 years and 193,675 rounds loaded that's a first. These were used in an Encore rifle and Ruger American in 300 blackout.

305192

[slim1836]

Run em through another weapon and see if they go pop.

Slim

[Dave W.]

I suppose they could go bad. The last batch of reloads I did were with primers from the 60's, so far all went bang. Did you try firing them a second time?

Sounds like you need to send them to me for "proper disposal". :-P

[dannyd]

I suppose they could go bad. The last batch of reloads I did were with primers from the 60's, so far all went bang. Did you try firing them a second time?

Sounds like you need to send them to me for "proper disposal". :-P

These were new stock; I shoot 12,000 rounds a year never have old stock of anything ;)

[ShooterAZ]

John in WI, I'm going to move your thread to the Cast Boolits forum, as I think it's a better fit than the Testing Area. I'll leave a two day redirect so you can find it.

[Hanzy4200]

I highly doubt the primers are bad. Rock Island revolvers are known for being a little out of spec. My guess is you may have seated the primers a hair deeper than the factory loads. I would load a few in a different firearm and see what happens.

[NSB]

I’ve got primers here from the sixties and they all go bang when used. It’s your gun as suggested above or they aren’t seated correctly. I’ve never gotten a batch of “bad” primers, but I believe anything’s possible….in this care rare though.

[barnetmill]

Assuming that the batch of primers was good when it left the factory, for all to have misfired with a good firing pin impact implies that the primers were deaden or deactivated. Normally does not happen with an experienced reloader that knows how to handle and store primers.
Is there anyway that lubricant or some other contaminant could have gotten on them. If not it is a big mystery.

[dannyd]

I am not the only one having problems with the CCI 450's other people have had the same with the new ones. Only problem I have ever had with primers. One store here in town has a whole shelf of them because everyone is scared to buy more.

All the rest have gone bang see below.

See below

305199

[M-Tecs]

Primers are very robust. I have been given primers that have been underwater for three days yet when they were dried the fired.

Most likely is light firing pin hits. Federal primers are the first, second and third choice for the folks running tricked out revolvers in competition.

[44Blam]

I've had issues with Winchester LP in 44 mag when I wasn't seating them fully. Occasionally, I would have one that went 'click'. If I rolled back the cylinder and tried again it always went bang. The first hit was seating the primer fully...
Now with 44 mag, I make sure it's fully seated when priming.

[John in WI]

Thanks for all the idea. I don't have another .38 to test these on, but I did a bit of reading and it seems like light primer strikes are not uncommon in the RIA 206. Several people said the easy fix is to use a Wolff spring for a S&W J-frame. I may start there. Drop in a new spring, and see what happens from there.

[bedbugbilly]

John -

New pistol . . . . it may very well be the primers, but . . . .

I had an issue many years ar with a nice S & W 15. The pistol was used nut new to me. Like you, the primers showed what I thought were good strikes. I put them through my Smith M & P and each one fired with no problems. In my case, I discovered the previous owner had shortened the tension screw on the main spring. Then I remembered that I was Shooting in single action (IIRC). So, I ran some loads from the same batch in single action and had misfires. Did double action and the went bang just fine. Running in DA gave enough extra oomph to set the primers off. In my case, I replaced the mainspring tension screw with a new one and no more misfires in SA or DA.

Not saying your new revolver is the issue - but the advice given to try the misfires in another revolver that you know goes bang each time may show you if the problem is the primers or the revolver.

I have always tried to get CCI primers as I like them. With the shortage, I started using the oldest in my stash and they are probably close to 20 years old - always stored in airtight military style ammo boxes in cool dry area. So far every one I've used has worked - but that's not to say that a different lot number may not have some that won't.

Good luck!

[Froogal]

After you pop them out can always (with ear pro) whack them with a hammer to test.


I've experienced some CCI small pistol primers that were total duds, and they were NOT old. I punched them out, took them outside and laid them on the sidewalk, hit them with a hammer, and nothing. Just the sound of the hammer hitting concrete.

[toallmy]

Twice in my lifetime I have had a bad brick of primers , in the late 80s I had trouble with a brick of small pistol primers - then again in the early 2010s with a brick of large rifle magnums both times the primers were CCI so it can happen . I know I'm going to be told it's possible to not seat primers properly and have a misfire but that wasn't the case both times the primers were the cause . I still use CCI primers but I only purchase them 1 brick at a time ( because of trust issues ) . Honestly until the last problem brick I used CCI for all my metallic loading but now when I order a case of 5K it's not going to be CCI .
By the way CCI wasn't even interested in the lot number when I contacted them .

[Castaway]

10 year old primers shouldn’t be an issue. I’d try to refire them. If they go bang the second time, a likely cause is the primer not being seated deeply enough when installed. All primers are not the same height and you may have to adjust your primer seating tool to seat a little deeper.

[nannyhammer]

Had a similar issue with a 6.8 AR and CCI 450's. After troubling shooting it, I found the hammer spring was not installed properly which reduced the firing pin hit. Fixed spring and issue went away.

[MUSTANG]

Elsewhere I had commented that prior to this cycle of Powder and Primer shortages; I did not experience primer "Fail to Fire" using USofA made primers despite having reloaded many hundreds of thousands of Rifle and Pistol rounds over the several decades of my reloading. I have experienced several "Fail to Fire" in small rifle and small pistol primers I have bought in 100 round sleeves during this shortage (Recent Production). I have also picked up many rounds at the ranges/remote shooting areas where the primer is indented - but the round "Failed to Fire".

My thoughts are is that we are seeing a decline in Quality Control at the USofA ammunition manufacturing facilities that are showing up as these "Fail to Fire" observations from myself and others. I further suspect that the "Quality Control" issue is driven by the acquisition of companies under corporate umbrellas - resulting in less competition pressures due to these Firearm/Ammunition consolidations. Post WW-II through the 1970's we saw a similar consolidation in the USofA automotive market - with an associated deterioration of quality and increase in prices which drove many in the USofA to embrace and but foreign made vehicles instead of USofA made (with the follow on of foreign vehicle companies setting up plants in the USofA to overcome "Buy USofA Made" efforts from the Unions, State, and Federal Government.

Bottom line; I believe that we will continue to see current productions of Primers having "Fail to Fires" being more prevalent than the decades before.

QUESTION FOR CURRENT MILITARY MEMBERS: Are you seeing failure to fire at the Rifle & Pistol Qualification and Training Ranges? In my Career from the 1970's - 1990's I would see a round or two of "Fail to Fire" over a week at the Rife Range Quals (50 targets - 6 relays - 50 rounds - 5 days. That's about 75,000 rounds fired for each Qual week (USMC old Qual format based). Thats a 0.001333% to 0.002666% failure rate for one or two "Fail to Fires". To be truthful; most of those "Fail to Fires" I saw in my Marine Corps Career WERE NOT primers failing to fire; rather they were bullets pushed back into the case or bent sideways due to a chambering issue - with 1911's and Berrettas having bullets pushed back or sideways thrust resulting in a bent over bullet at the neck - once again not a primer failing to fire.

[mdi]

First "test"; did the suspect rounds fire with a second strike? I have been reloading CCI small pistol primers for about 40 years and cannot remember a FTF that was not my fault. 3, 38 Special revolvers, 1, 357 Magnum, 1, 9mm revolver one each 32 ACP and 380 ACP, 4, 9mm semi-autos, and experimented with about 250 rounds of small primed 45 ACP. All worked quite well with CCI SPP (some 15-20 years in my possession). The only FTF, if memory serves me correctly, were improperly seated using a Hornady hand primer...

[crackers]

When I see 'Dead CCI pistol primers' I can't get past 'I recently picked up a Rock Island .38 snubnose.' A soft spring won't snap a primer not firmly seated.

[Slahp]

I have a Rock Island snub nose and have had the same problem and have sent it back to Rock Island for repairs still the same. It fires fine when shooting single action but misfires when shooting double action. I have tried other springs and they didn't help. I use it as a truck gun and use it as a single action only. We bought 3 of these when Sarco had a sale on them and 2 have had this problem, its not a primer problem.