Members hit by Ian?

[georgerkahn]

It is indeed so very sad to see the destruction of lives and property from the paths of hurricanes. A fair number of members on this forum have no doubt been affected. (I believe #1 resides in the Sunshine State!)
If there is any way I might be able to provide some help, relief, or even just a kind word or two -- hesitate not in reaching out to me.
Seeing Ian's path and the total destruction from it... albeit where I reside our major weather worry is ice storms which have the challenges of no electricity (which, for many = no heat), severe shortage of Essence to run generators, and even food in short supply for many -- this totally pales with what those affected by this horrendous storm are going through.
All ARE in my thought and prayers -- and, again -- I will try best for any I may be able to help.
geo

[elmacgyver0]

Things are bad in Florida, but they could be a lot worse.
They could have had a Democrat for governor.

[Land Owner]

The next assault is the Insurance Agent saying, "It isn't covered in your homeowner's policy", to everyone without flood insurance. Next is the total lack of materials - wiped out, nothing open - wiped out, river and tributary flooding to its unprecedented New Peak continues through NEXT TUESDAY before subsiding over the following week(s), inflation, higher fuel prices, higher lumber prices, unscrupulous Contractors, Carpet Baggers, stock market tanked, futures lost.

Pray. Just pray. This too shall pass...


https://i.postimg.cc/50RfSLq9/0037.jpg


Record High Water elevations are being set everywhere:
https://water.weather.gov/ahps2/area.php?wfo=mlb

Somewhere is a map of the flood plain associated with every gage. Obviously, these maps will change as significantly larger flooded areas are mapped. Florida being "flat" and filling with flood water, many flood plains, the extent of flooding, will become co-mingled with other flood plains and become indistinguishable or unattributable to a single gage.

Not to make light, but this does "sum up" what I just wrote:

https://i.postimg.cc/wjrKPgRF/HERE.jpg

[beezapilot]

Thank you for the kind thoughts.

[No_1]

It is indeed so very sad to see the destruction of lives and property from the paths of hurricanes. A fair number of members on this forum have no doubt been affected. (I believe #1 resides in the Sunshine State!)
If there is any way I might be able to provide some help, relief, or even just a kind word or two -- hesitate not in reaching out to me.
Seeing Ian's path and the total destruction from it... albeit where I reside our major weather worry is ice storms which have the challenges of no electricity (which, for many = no heat), severe shortage of Essence to run generators, and even food in short supply for many -- this totally pales with what those affected by this horrendous storm are going through.
All ARE in my thought and prayers -- and, again -- I will try best for any I may be able to help.
geo

Yes, I am at the top of the state. Once it reached me it was just wind and a steady medium rain. My damage was limited to leaves / branches on the ground as well as a pool full of leaves.

[Castaway]

elma…., you’ve got that right. Yesterday DeSantis reminded looters that Florida is a 2nd Amendment state and warned them they may get shot by homeowners

[jonp]

The next assault is the Insurance Agent saying, "It isn't covered in your homeowner's policy", to everyone without flood insurance.

Why is that an assault? If you live in an area prone to flooding or major storms and don't have flood insurance that's your fault for not being a responsible adult. That's the same line of thinking of graduating from college with a Gender Studies degree, not being able to find a job and demanding someone else pay your student loans off.

Your picture of Florida is funny in a gallows humor kind of way. People with military in their background can appreciate that I think or most of us.

[Land Owner]

jonp...I'm a Civil Engineer (ret.), read everything, not a fanboy of insurance, and it will be "an assault". Most insured folk don't think. They are all about, "I'm OK with the insurance (used car) salesman's advice. I've got 'adequate' homeowner's insurance. These 'things' are never really 'that bad'." Then the insured, that survives, is told about the exclusion for water damage, after not reading or understanding the policy doesn't cover that, and when their loss most needs to be covered.

Who prepares for a 500-year flood? Do you even know what that is? Even the Federal Hwy Administration, State of Florida DOT, and Local County Road and Bridge require only the one-hundred-year (100-year) event in public bridge and highway culvert plans and construction. Roadside ditch and culvert drainage is designed to the 25-year event. That makes flooding above and beyond historic levels guaranteed when Nature overcomes the constructed event.

Who is "responsible" for that? Is it the insured's fault? Is it the insurance company's fault? It had not flooded in recorded history here (or there) before. We've never experienced a 500-year event either. It wasn't planned and construction wasn't designed for it to pass without incidents.

Where does the line get drawn? Might just as well just "go naked", save the insurance premium dollars, roll the dice, drink beer, party, and see what happens. Walk away. Let's not be responsible at all. Not everyone is financially viable.

I suspect the aftermath of a mega-tsunami (or 1000-year event) in the Atlantic that blanks Florida and some amount of Atlantic and Gulf coastal USA into a sand dune devoid of all life will in time be viewed by survivors and the non-affected as "just another sad day" in the annals of recorded history and poor planning for those in the path of that destruction.

[Shopdog]

You don't have to live in the damage areas to feel the $$ effect of it.

Was a State Farm customer for years and years with ZERO claims. Without going into the sordid details...

Months after Katrina, we had lightning blow a full sized trashcan hole in our roof. State Farm basically said,go pound sand.

Just saying,insurance co's aren't your friend.

[popper]

Yup, insurance rates for everybody going up this year. She asked why people didn't move their big boats someplace else - I say, 500 mi trip to safe water. Now why the McLaren guy didn't move his? And be sure to get your mosquito spray out, they will be real nasty for a couple months.

[super6]

Yup, insurance rates for everybody going up this year. She asked why people didn't move their big boats someplace else - I say, 500 mi trip to safe water. Now why the McLaren guy didn't move his? And be sure to get your mosquito spray out, they will be real nasty for a couple months.

I'll bet there will be plenty of deals on those boats soon! Small aircraft to.

[MaryB]

If you have a shortwave receiver ham radio is handling a lot of traffic out of the areas with no cell coverage. 14.325mhz+- interference upper side band. And somewhere in the 40 meter ham radio band above 7.2mhz... I have to much interference there to pick them up.

[jonp]

jonp...I'm a Civil Engineer (ret.), read everything, not a fanboy of insurance, and it will be "an assault". Most insured folk don't think. They are all about, "I'm OK with the insurance (used car) salesman's advice. I've got 'adequate' homeowner's insurance. These 'things' are never really 'that bad'." Then the insured, that survives, is told about the exclusion for water damage, after not reading or understanding the policy doesn't cover that, and when their loss most needs to be covered.

Who prepares for a 500-year flood? Do you even know what that is? Even the Federal Hwy Administration, State of Florida DOT, and Local County Road and Bridge require only the one-hundred-year (100-year) event in public bridge and highway culvert plans and construction. Roadside ditch and culvert drainage is designed to the 25-year event. That makes flooding above and beyond historic levels guaranteed when Nature overcomes the constructed event.

Who is "responsible" for that? Is it the insured's fault? Is it the insurance company's fault? It had not flooded in recorded history here (or there) before. We've never experienced a 500-year event either. It wasn't planned and construction wasn't designed for it to pass without incidents.

Where does the line get drawn? Might just as well just "go naked", save the insurance premium dollars, roll the dice, drink beer, party, and see what happens. Walk away. Let's not be responsible at all. Not everyone is financially viable.

I suspect the aftermath of a mega-tsunami (or 1000-year event) in the Atlantic that blanks Florida and some amount of Atlantic and Gulf coastal USA into a sand dune devoid of all life will in time be viewed by survivors and the non-affected as "just another sad day" in the annals of recorded history and poor planning for those in the path of that destruction.

I don't really care what you do for a living. If you own a home in an area that is prone to flooding, hurricanes or other major disasters and you don't have the insurance to cover it then tough luck. Right now I'm paying higher insurance than I need to because I have to subsidize all those fools on the Outer Banks who built houses next to the ocean and that get destroyed by storms on a regular basis. Pay for insurance and if the rates are too high then live somewhere else. They are probably high for a reason and that goes for fire insurance in Cali. Build houses out in the woods that burn down every year and of course your insurance is going to be high. The companies are not in the business to lose money.

[super6]

Most news organizations say this will put smaller insurance out of business, Your rates will go up! Comes a point where you just can not afford it. I will do what I can to help these people. Send a PM if you can and I will see what I can do to help.

[bedbugbilly]

My, my jonp . . . . you certainly are a cheerful sort of fellow!

For what it is worth . . . WE ALL PAY HIGHER INSURANCE RATES because of things such as this, and tornados, wildfires, etc. AND, you are correct . . . Insurance companies are not in the business to lose money. BUT, most insurance agents I have dealt with in the past 60 years are pretty much "order takers", out to get their cut and they aren't eve completely knowledgeable of what they are selling.

Personally, I have dealt with two complete losses due to fire - a commercial building i owned that a tenant torched and got away with it and my M in L who lost everything when her apartment building burned due to electrical . . . and I have seen more than my share of losses suffered by many when I was on the fire department. A person pays insurance premiums for years with no claims and when they do have a loss, the Adjuster is out to settle the claim as cheaply as he can.

NONE of the residents in Florida or other places affected by this hurricane ASKED for it . . . and yea, many probably are not insured as they should be . . . for many reasons . . . low income, fixed income, etc. . . . . but according to you they should have moved somewhere else? Hmmmm . . . . that if they aren't covered fully for their loss . . . tough luck . . . it's their own fault?

I think it's nice that you have the means to make sure that you are fully covered by insurance and that you'll never suffer a "loss" because you are so responsible that you have everything covered and can live with no worry. I notice that you don't list where you are from . . . doesn't really matter and that's your business . . . but I hope that you will remember that any location can have catastrophes happen.

It's pretty easy to stand back and say that it's a person's own fault if they suffer a loss. Sort of makes me wonder if you really know what "loss" is. Have you ever had to do search and rescue after a tornado? See the destruction one causes . . . how will completely take a building and make it disappear and the one right net door to it be totally collapsed? Have you ever had to crawl in looking for survivors and work so many hours that you can't think you can take another step but you still have to go on because there is work to do? Have you ever had to roll up on a house fire in the middle of the night only to find people standing in the yard in their nightclothes, screaming that there is still someone inside as they watch everything they own burn? Have you ever had to crawl inside a burning building and do a search for anyone? Or worse yet, have you ever had to sift for what little remains you can find of a human being in the ashes of what is left, or go inside to retrieve a beloved pet and have to tell a child how sorry you are that you couldn't get to it in time? I have and you never forget those things. The material things can be replaced, but there are some things that can never be replaced . . . and until you see and experience those things, you don't know what true loss is and I hope you never have to find out.

Lives have been lost . . . some people have lost everything and for many, it may well be such a shock that they will not survive. It doesn't matter if they are rich or poor, black, white or brown or anything else. If they had insurance or not . . . they didn't ask for this and it's a time when people should be helping other people . . . not passing judgment about what they should have or have not done or what they should have had and didn't. There are a lot of folks with a very hard road ahead of them to walk in order to get their lives back in order and they need all the help they can get, regardless of who they are and what they have or don't have.

My Dad always said, "people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones" . . . maybe some folks ought to remember that . . . regardless of how much insurance they have on their glass house.

[Edward]

Bed Bug Billy , I could not have said it any better and most likely would have got hollered at by a mod for unkind thoughts/words /Ed

[xs11jack]

Land Holder, you are not that far from Edgewater, Fl. where a dear friend lives. He moved down there for a really good job about 3 yrs ago. I haven't been able to get in touch by any means. I am not asking anything I am just a old man worrywort. May the good Lord help you in your recovery efforts.
Ole Jack.

[dannyd]

Things are bad in Florida, but they could be a lot worse.
They could have had a Democrat for governor.

Did a Hurricane with a Democrat governor; they looked at how your county voted before you got help.

[quilbilly]

There is a lot of Doug fir softwood stacked on the ground from this summer's clearcuts Near my house that hasn't been sold yet. Hopefully that will help members of our community in Ian's path who need 2x4's, 2x6's, and plywood (lots and lots of plywood considering the size of a lot of the trees on the ground). As a volunteer first responder, my thought are with all affected. Doing house-to-house SAR is only for the strongest.

[Bmi48219]

I can understand how a person might not be able to afford Flood Insurance. I can’t understand how anyone with a fifth grade education would be unaware of what Home Owners Insurance does and doesn’t cover. Particularly those that reside in a low lying area. The words ‘Florida’ and ‘Flood Insurance’ are practically synonymous. The HO policies
I’ve seen go to great lengths to point out the policy does not include flood coverage.
Our home is 3.5 miles from the Inter-coastal, 4.5 from the Atlantic. The elevation is 21’ above SL, so not a zone that a financial institution would require Flood Insurance on. To me it’s a no brainer.
Our Flood Policy is either 5 or $600 per year. Pretty much doubled in the last ten years. Max coverage is 50k. Only covers rising water. Not rain, wind driven rain, roof blew-away rain, only rising water..
Looking at the pictures of destruction from Ian, 50k won’t go very far. Flood insurance is better than nothing, but not a lot.

[Soundguy]

Florida member here. We saw 30+ hours of rain. Only a little damage to power in my neighborhood. Got lucky. People 60m away got demolished... :(

[MrWolf]

With my divorce I had to sell our vacation home on Pine Island in St James City. Sold it about seven years ago. Took a slight loss and then it more than doubled I price a little later - oh well. Heard they got hammered hard with the bridges being wiped out, surges, etc. Shame. Lot of places there worked on "Island time". Open and close when they felt like it and locals were great folks. Best of luck to all impacted.

[gpidaho]

We got very lucky here at Oak Hill fish camp. My RV sits about four feet above the water of the intercoastal. At high tide Friday there were little fish swimming under the trailer! I only lost weather stripping around one window. I've been about the area a bit and seen the damage some of the local homes and business's have suffered. Heart goes out to those folks. Something to see for a fellow from SW Idaho! Gp

[1Papalote]

Jonp, are you an insurance guy? My home flooded during Harvey and Imelda, lived there 22 years, no flood plus none in the previous 50+ years. Sounds safe? Who can plan for near annual rainfall in two days, TWICE? I lost personal items as well as sheetrock, cabinets and insulation. I did not have everything I own blown away. One can never fully recover the loss whether they have insurance or not. Not one has a list of every item in their home. Plus I figure replacement costs would exceed policy maximum. I've lived it.
I haven't filed an auto claim in 40 years yet my premiums go up annually. Why is that? Because they can.
Insurance is a necessary thing but it is one sided in that they make the rules, decide the premiums and carefully hand out coverage $$ to their benefit. Then...........when THEY suffer loss, they get to raise rates. Talk about bailing someone out!!

[MaryB]

My, my jonp . . . . you certainly are a cheerful sort of fellow!

For what it is worth . . . WE ALL PAY HIGHER INSURANCE RATES because of things such as this, and tornados, wildfires, etc. AND, you are correct . . . Insurance companies are not in the business to lose money. BUT, most insurance agents I have dealt with in the past 60 years are pretty much "order takers", out to get their cut and they aren't eve completely knowledgeable of what they are selling.

Personally, I have dealt with two complete losses due to fire - a commercial building i owned that a tenant torched and got away with it and my M in L who lost everything when her apartment building burned due to electrical . . . and I have seen more than my share of losses suffered by many when I was on the fire department. A person pays insurance premiums for years with no claims and when they do have a loss, the Adjuster is out to settle the claim as cheaply as he can.

NONE of the residents in Florida or other places affected by this hurricane ASKED for it . . . and yea, many probably are not insured as they should be . . . for many reasons . . . low income, fixed income, etc. . . . . but according to you they should have moved somewhere else? Hmmmm . . . . that if they aren't covered fully for their loss . . . tough luck . . . it's their own fault?

I think it's nice that you have the means to make sure that you are fully covered by insurance and that you'll never suffer a "loss" because you are so responsible that you have everything covered and can live with no worry. I notice that you don't list where you are from . . . doesn't really matter and that's your business . . . but I hope that you will remember that any location can have catastrophes happen.

It's pretty easy to stand back and say that it's a person's own fault if they suffer a loss. Sort of makes me wonder if you really know what "loss" is. Have you ever had to do search and rescue after a tornado? See the destruction one causes . . . how will completely take a building and make it disappear and the one right net door to it be totally collapsed? Have you ever had to crawl in looking for survivors and work so many hours that you can't think you can take another step but you still have to go on because there is work to do? Have you ever had to roll up on a house fire in the middle of the night only to find people standing in the yard in their nightclothes, screaming that there is still someone inside as they watch everything they own burn? Have you ever had to crawl inside a burning building and do a search for anyone? Or worse yet, have you ever had to sift for what little remains you can find of a human being in the ashes of what is left, or go inside to retrieve a beloved pet and have to tell a child how sorry you are that you couldn't get to it in time? I have and you never forget those things. The material things can be replaced, but there are some things that can never be replaced . . . and until you see and experience those things, you don't know what true loss is and I hope you never have to find out.

Lives have been lost . . . some people have lost everything and for many, it may well be such a shock that they will not survive. It doesn't matter if they are rich or poor, black, white or brown or anything else. If they had insurance or not . . . they didn't ask for this and it's a time when people should be helping other people . . . not passing judgment about what they should have or have not done or what they should have had and didn't. There are a lot of folks with a very hard road ahead of them to walk in order to get their lives back in order and they need all the help they can get, regardless of who they are and what they have or don't have.

My Dad always said, "people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones" . . . maybe some folks ought to remember that . . . regardless of how much insurance they have on their glass house.

After the 1,000 year floods along the river near me they made people move off the flood plain. Entire neighborhoods were given a new lot in a subdivision up on the bluff. They had flooded 6 times in 20 years... now they are parks full of wildlife and insurance doesn't get hammered when the river floods every spring. Some of these houses had flooded 50+ times! I was in one before the 1,000 year flood and it stank, moldy, nasty... how anyone could live in that... and that river was an open sewer for many years and is just starting to clean up. So the flood waters were VERY contaminated.

[Soundguy]

Man I used to love to go to Pine Island but yeah I hear Pine Island and Sanibel Island got hammered

[Bmi48219]

We’ve never made a claim on HO. Has Federal National for last 12 years, last May (2021) our rate went up 50%. This past May they dropped us and 59,999 other owners because they were over exposed. So 60,000 owners looking for a policy all at the same time. They still insure 90,000 homes in Florida but I’m assuming they must be well inland. Travelers did the same thing in 2004.

[farmbif]

as far as financial loss from storm I got to believe the loss to usa will be far greater for this storm than Spain's loss of the 1715 plate fleet from florida hurricane.
my daughter and her mother are in Cape Coral struggling to get even clean water and food. cell connection is very spotty and connections drop after just short conversations. there is no internet yet and there is a huge gap in emergency services available and getting that help to hundreds of thousands who need it. areas of Matlacha and pine island are just gone. part of Matlacha was reclaimed by Matlacha Pass but there were homes and businesses on both sides of the road that are completely gone just like the Sanibel causeway.
I thank the good lord that they are ok and not harmed. other friends of ours are missing completely and cannot be contacted.
there is a lot of damage that they dont show on the national news that most of us have gotten our information about the storm from. if that makes any sense.
I continue to pray for those who are missing and struggling with the basic necessities of life in these trying times and will send care packages though the mail for those I know who now have nothing.

[Land Owner]

Reuters posted an interesting map of Ian's rainfall (the "plus" part after 8 inches is questioned for a reason discussed below):

https://i.postimg.cc/fRztDQ2X/0038.jpg

I think Reuters used partial data as the linked article appears to me as speculative with regard to the storm track.

Ian has been called a "500-year" event. For clarification, a "100 [500] -year event" does not mean it will occur exactly once every 100 [500] -years, or that it will not happen again for another 100 [500] years.

The "100-year event" statistically describes the CHANCE of an event in ANY year equal to 1 chance in 100 or 1.0%. Similarly, the 500-year event is 1 chance in 500 or 0.20%. The US Gulf or Atlantic coastline could experience (say) three (3) 100-year events in a single year - EACH event independent and measured in the AMOUNT of rainfall per event. Let's hope not though.

The AVERAGE 100-year rainfall amount in 24-hours is 10.9 inches with a 90% confidence interval between 8.34" and 14.4".

The AVERAGE 500-year rainfall amount in 24-hours is 15.2 inches with a 90% confidence interval between 10.6" and 21.6".

https://hdsc.nws.noaa.gov/hdsc/pfds/pfds_map_cont.html?bkmrk=fl

It is noted that both the 100-year AND 500-year 24-hour events have overlapping rainfall amounts within their respective 90% confidence intervals (namely 10.6" to 14.4"). This is not problematic, only coincidental, think - Kamala's Venn Diagrams. The actual flooding characteristics are a considerably greater indicator of rainfall and will be reverse engineered in the weeks and months after the storm for a "bell-weather" (clear) understanding of Ian's cumulative rainfall.

Check out the State's river gages: https://water.weather.gov/ahps2/forecasts.php?wfo=mlb Deep Purple means MAJOR Flooding, as many gages exceed their historic recorded flood stage along the storm's path. Ian was a MAJOR storm event.

Hold your cursor over the gage node on the linked map and that gage will pop up. The gage just below me on Lake Harney, GENF1, has quit working, was still rising on Friday afternoon at 11.71' (NGVD '29 datum), and was expected to continue to rise to 12.5' through tomorrow afternoon (5 DAYS after the event passed) before receding over the next two weeks. That's a LOT of water!

Today, the FDOT closed the State's highway, SR46, between Geneva and Mims due to flood water overtopping the roadway. The last time this happened was 2008, when the highest flood record was set following Tropical Storm Fay, not even a hurricane, which dumped 20+" of rainfall in 24-hours.

[gpidaho]

Here at East Volusia county The weather service said there was 19.1 inches of rain, thirteen inches in just one 24hr. period. In SW Idaho sometimes we don't get 13 inches in a year! Lots of folks in New Smyrna and South Daytona got flooded. Gp

[lolbell]

Whomever said Insurance Agents are just order takers, somewhere back up the line, hit the nail on the head. A few years back a small tornado came through and blew my barn away. When the adjuster came out I was told it wasn’t covered. With policy in hand I showed him where out buildings were covered at a value of 10% of the home, which would have been about $21,000. Adjuster said yeah but you have a tractor parked in it. That makes it a barn, not an out building. When the Agent was out to inspect and go over coverage THAT building was discussed and I was told it was covered. Not only did I not get reimbursed for the “barn” I had to hire help to clean up the debris from country road row’s and neighbors property. I had just written Alfa a $3,600 check a week before and I got nothing. I no longer have insurance other than liability on my vehicles. If this house get destroyed I’ll buy a mobile home to finish out my years. I wish I would have saved the 45 years of premiums. I’d be $100,000 richer.