Judges

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

So my daily morning bible study is currently in Judges. Just got to the point where Samson martyred himself. I've been thinking about all the events recorded in Judges about Samson. As a whole, it's such a crazy story, with the riddle of the Lion being the craziest.

Also, 50 years ago in Sunday school, they taught us Samson got his great strength from his long hair. That also seemed Crazy. I'm glad I learned during this study, that the source of Samson's strength was God [YHWH], so at least the moral of the story was no longer crazy to me.

[Good Cheer]

At one point I had to go try to research the architectural norms of their temples. Was thinking about the twin pillars motif.

By the way, did you think there might be another level concerning the lion and the honey?
As if to say the lion that would eat Samson could be representative of the Philistines themselves. And the honey was , well, his sweet honey from among the Philistines. Or was Samson getting his strength back from God and slaying the many Philistines inside their temple the sweetness, the honey within the lion?
I don't know. It's just something I thought about.

[1hole]

... 50 years ago in Sunday school, they taught us Samson got his great strength from his long hair. That also seemed Crazy.

If that's what "they" taught you, it was indeed crazy because it totally misses what the story is about. As an object lesson Samson was given great strength because of his obedience to God's instructions about his hair, it was not about the hair itself.

When Samson rejected God's rule and followed his gonads it all fell apart so he blindly suffered and then died young. And THAT'S the message WE should also get about his lustful story.

[Good Cheer]

By the way JonB, through the centuries the bees are a symbol also. As it was then it still is today, a pretty interesting research project in and of itself.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

At one point I had to go try to research the architectural norms of their temples. Was thinking about the twin pillars motif.

By the way, did you think there might be another level concerning the lion and the honey?
As if to say the lion that would eat Samson could be representative of the Philistines themselves. And the honey was , well, his sweet honey from among the Philistines. Or was Samson getting his strength back from God and slaying the many Philistines inside their temple the sweetness, the honey within the lion?
I don't know. It's just something I thought about.


By the way JonB, through the centuries the bees are a symbol also. As it was then it still is today, a pretty interesting research project in and of itself.
Good Cheer,
thanks, you've given me a few things to thing about.

[MT Gianni]

All of Judges represents a tough life. Can you imagine the thought process in catching 300 foxes, tying their tales together, then placing a firebrand in the tails and letting the animals run through your enemy's grain field? To a hunter that may be more difficult than killing the Philistines with a jawbone or bringing down the temple.

The key point is to not let your promises' to God lapse.

[Milky Duck]

If that's what "they" taught you, it was indeed crazy because it totally misses what the story is about. As an object lesson Samson was given great strength because of his obedience to God's instructions about his hair, it was not about the hair itself.

When Samson rejected God's rule and followed his gonads it all fell apart so he blindly suffered and then died young. And THAT'S the message WE should also get about his lustful story.

well put...

[Gobeyond]

God had mercy on Samson until he broke the third part of his vow to be a nazarite. He lifted up his people and destroyed their enemies through Samson. He was a very important judge during the times of Israel’s disobedience. He was a type of Christ showing His invinceable strength against His (their) enemies. Invinceable strength , keeps His promises, mighty warrior for our protection.

The judges came when needed and prayed for. They never knew when. It wouldn’t have happened but because of idolatry the fell every generation. It’s so precarious we don’t know when he will save us. We keep falling but he comes when we are ready to repent. It’s all of grace and mercy for us. We can’t do what He (Jesus) can do. Helplessness to save, then turn to Him. And He restores.

[Thundarstick]

What time span did the book of Judges cover?

[LAH]

What time span did the book of Judges cover?

About 1043-1004 BC.

[HWooldridge]

All of Judges represents a tough life. Can you imagine the thought process in catching 300 foxes, tying their tales together, then placing a firebrand in the tails and letting the animals run through your enemy's grain field? To a hunter that may be more difficult than killing the Philistines with a jawbone or bringing down the temple.

The key point is to not let your promises' to God lapse.

It would also take a minute or two to catch 300 foxes. How long does that take - maybe figure 10 foxes per day, would take a month. He’d have to collect them in some sort of fox proof corral, then take the time to tie on all the firebrands. The corral would need to be available prior to fox catching, and you have to feed them while you catch all 300. Then he has to transport them to the burn site, get the brands lit, and turn them loose.

I bet he had help…just sayin’.

[Wayne Smith]

Couple of things about Judges, the book. It is not in chronological order, it is a compilation of stories that are organized by purpose rather than time. If you read it as chronological, as we think, you will miss some of the purpose.

My take on Judges is that it shows the failure of the Levite tribe to teach the people as they were supposed to. Of course, each father had the responsibility to teach his children, but the Levites were to teach the nation. That's why they were spread throughout the nation.

[Thundarstick]

About 1043-1004 BC.

Less than 50 years?? I always thought it was near 500 years!

[LAH]

Less than 50 years?? I always thought it was near 500 years!
I copied that from one of my study Bibles. Maybe I need to fact check that & check myself while I'm at it.

[LAH]

Less than 50 years?? I always thought it was near 500 years!

About 1043-1004 BC was the period of time to write the Book so forgive me. Seems the period from the first judge Othniel till the death of Samuel was 336 years. 1350-1014 BC.

This came from https://www.bible.ca/archeology/bible-archeology-exodus-route-date-chronology-of-judges.htm

[Gobeyond]

Yah they got a new judge often in 40-50 years. When the oppression God sent them was too much and they would cry out to the Lord. It seems just a few generations and all is forgotten. Now we have more reason to remember, the HS, and less prosperity in material things and trials to keep us turned to the Lord. He is providing for our spiritual needs. And always there in time.
Our source of spiritual strength is from the lord too. If we keep in his word. Hopefully we are all ripped. But then again we have to depend on the lord to bail us out all the time. We need strength to stay close, repent often and exercise our faith and to turn back to Him when we fall. It’s all not easy any way. But it’s not just the lord and it’s not just our strength needed for continuance. We have our part too.

[fixit]

There is/was a book and video series called The three chairs that went into the cycle that Christianity and Judaism goes through. In a nutshell, you have the generation that calls out to God, believes in God, and sees God working, then the next generation knows God, believes in God, and knows God's works, and then, there is a third generation that springs up, and the Bible refers to them with the statement, "and they knew not God". First chair, second chair, third chair.

[Nines&Twos]

I know this is an old thread but i am about to start judges myself.
Everyone studies different...I like to skim through then go back verse by verse....Kinda like picking up loose rocks before you plow deep.

I grew up believing the false teaching that his strength was in his hair....As JonB said...his strength came from our Father. The deal with his hair is better understood in Judges 16:17 when he said He had been a Nazarite from his mothers womb. The vow of a nazarite is pretty binding and our Father didn't take lightly the breaking of that vow. Numbers chapter 6 goes into the vow. One stipulation being no haircuts (my words)
It's a seemingly simple detail to some but it certainly makes clear how his strength was gained.

[Wayne Smith]

Not just his hair. Nothing to do with wine and grapes and grape vines, nothing to do with dead bodies - even though he had to kill people. Just about everything we have recorded that he did went against those vows.

[Nines&Twos]

Not just his hair. Nothing to do with wine and grapes and grape vines, nothing to do with dead bodies - even though he had to kill people. Just about everything we have recorded that he did went against those vows.

Yep, typical 12 tribes insanity. We have faith today and have not SEEN anything. They got to physically SEE things and failed constantly.
I suppose Father bent the rules for a war he approved of? They are HIS rules so if he chose to ignore them in that instance..............

[hoodat]

"If my people, who are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14

This verse has always been probably the most important and pertinent for both the people of old, as well as our modern society. I wonder if we'll do any better than the people of old? jd

[.429&H110]

There is way more in Judges than Sampson.
Like Jael said "Nailed it!"

I once had hair, and I was strong.
Now I am bald, and I am not.

[sureYnot]

I know this is an old thread but i am about to start judges myself.
Everyone studies different...I like to skim through then go back verse by verse....Kinda like picking up loose rocks before you plow deep.

I grew up believing the false teaching that his strength was in his hair....As JonB said...his strength came from our Father. The deal with his hair is better understood in Judges 16:17 when he said He had been a Nazarite from his mothers womb. The vow of a nazarite is pretty binding and our Father didn't take lightly the breaking of that vow. Numbers chapter 6 goes into the vow. One stipulation being no haircuts (my words)
It's a seemingly simple detail to some but it certainly makes clear how his strength was gained.There is a lot of incorrect teaching out there. For example, everybody knows about the 3 wise men who visited Jesus in the manger. Except there weren't 3. And they visited about 2 years later at a house.
As far as Samson, he was nagged into stupidity. Nagged to death, really. The lesson is that it's better to live on the corner of a roof than with a nagging wife.

[Good Cheer]

"If my people, who are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14

This verse has always been probably the most important and pertinent for both the people of old, as well as our modern society. I wonder if we'll do any better than the people of old? jd

On a side note I'd venture that no, we aren't. The same principle has been used against us as was used by Balaam.

[Thundarstick]

There is a lot of incorrect teaching out there. For example, everybody knows about the 3 wise men who visited Jesus in the manger. Except there weren't 3. And they visited about 2 years later at a house.
As far as Samson, he was nagged into stupidity. Nagged to death, really. The lesson is that it's better to live on the corner of a roof than with a nagging wife.

Solomon should have had plenty of experience with that one, and know what he was talking about!

[Nines&Twos]

There is a lot of incorrect teaching out there. For example, everybody knows about the 3 wise men who visited Jesus in the manger. Except there weren't 3. And they visited about 2 years later at a house.
As far as Samson, he was nagged into stupidity. Nagged to death, really. The lesson is that it's better to live on the corner of a roof than with a nagging wife.

It's assumed there were 3 because there were 3 gifts presented but you are correct, nowhere are they numbered.


On a side note I'd venture that no, we aren't. The same principle has been used against us as was used by Balaam.

That poor donkey would have done well to treat him like any good donkey treats a coyote.



Solomon should have had plenty of experience with that one, and know what he was talking about!

For all his wisdom...Solomon was one of the dumbest idiots in The Word. Our Father handed him everything on a gold platter and what did he do with it? Took up with a bunch of foreign whhores and their filthy godless ways. I'll never understand how people fall for the same old garbage. Lucifer really is an accomplished liar.

[Bowdrie]

For all his wisdom...Solomon was one of the dumbest idiots in The Word. Our Father handed him everything on a gold platter and what did he do with it? Took up with a bunch of foreign whhores and their filthy godless ways. I'll never understand how people fall for the same old garbage. Lucifer really is an accomplished liar.

Might Solomon's life been somewhat of a parallel of many?
He was born into a "God fearing" household, probably well read in all the existing Scripture of his time.
His reign started on a good note, the sword and baby episode, people from the known world enthralled at his wisdom, building the temple, etc.
Then he went downhill, but later "came back to God", realizing that all was vanity and writing about how good it was to have one good wife.
His story is similar to the prodigal son, only on a larger scale.
The words change but the song remains the same

[Nines&Twos]

Bowdrie you are correct...all things in our Father's word are ensamples to live and learn by. Nothing new under the sun, everything that has been will be again...Ecclesiastes 1:9


Doesn't change my confusion at all....how can you see and not believe?

[Wayne Smith]

One possible understanding of Solomon in that time and society to have a relationship with another country you would have a marriage relationship with the daughter or close relationship with the king of that country. This was normative for the time. No reason why he allowed them to follow their gods, have temples to their gods, and worship there. David did not do this largely because he conquered everyone in sight. For that matter it was custom but not necessary by my understanding, but I have been wrong plenty of times prior to this.

[Bowdrie]

One possible understanding of Solomon in that time and society to have a relationship with another country you would have a marriage relationship with the daughter or close relationship with the king of that country. This was normative for the time.

Good point, thank you for reminding me of that.
Samson did the same thing. marry outside of his people. Didn't Issac do the same?
And Samson is still mentioned in Hebrews in the "chapter of faith".
I gotta feeling that Solomon became a victim of his success and riches that God had provided for him.
I do want to meet all those guys, and I want to ask Noah how he shaped all that wood without a Skillsaw. lol.

[Alabama358]

His story is similar to the prodigal son, only on a larger scale.
The words change but the song remains the same

I have never linked the two together... Very true

[Milky Duck]

Good point, thank you for reminding me of that.
Samson did the same thing. marry outside of his people. Didn't Issac do the same?
And Samson is still mentioned in Hebrews in the "chapter of faith".
I gotta feeling that Solomon became a victim of his success and riches that God had provided for him.
I do want to meet all those guys, and I want to ask Noah how he shaped all that wood without a Skillsaw. lol.

if youve ever watched an episode of the flintstones...he probably had a team of "eager beavers" on hand(maybe thats where the term origonated) but in all seriousness we have lost far more skills to do practial stuff than many of us would believe.