Question about woods and trees.

[Bazoo]

I got aome mixed new growth woods. Mostly yellow poplar, walnut, cherry, maple, box elder. There is a few others here and there, sassafras, red mulberry, shingle oak, blackjack oak, white oak, sycamore. So my question is, there are a few white oak saplings I’ve seen, from 12” tall to 5’ tall. How do I encourage their growth without clear cutting everything around them?

I’d appreciate any suggestions as to this, including links to tree and wood management articles.

[ascast]

you miught try a little fertlizer, but in the end, those with the most sunlight grow the fastest and biggest, All the others just fade off. You need to decide what kind of mature forest you want now.

[jonp]

You don't need to clear cut anything but you must open up the secondary and tertiary canopy to provide more sunlight. This requires selective cutting.

[hc18flyer]

A little 'balanced' fertilizer after they go dormant for the Winter, plenty of sunlight during the growing season, and keep the pruning to a minimum. Maintain a strong central leader and leave the side branches on for now. Some type of protection for the truck from rodents and deer. hc18flyer

[Misery-Whip]

Out west we just let them grow, more competition the fir , spruce and alder grow straighter. Develop heart wood sooner. Its the blackberries that need manage or they grow over the trees choking out light. Also bring in the black bears and they will kill fir trees for the sap.

What im trying to say is if you want saw logs let it be. Just tend to what is going to fall, or has fallen.

You listed species ive never heard of, research them and cut what is easily diseased or calls bugs. or like western cedar takes 80 years to reach maturity and naturally kills anything growing under its canopy. My forest is for $ so this is the basis of my $0.02.

good luck enjoy them they grow fast.

[Bazoo]

I’m interested in three things. Hunting, firewood, harvest to sell. Likely I’ll never be able to harvest any of it for sale because it’s all too new. But my son might 30 years or so from now. This was all fields, hill and bottom land that has been let grow for about 20 years now. There is very few mature trees currently.

[waksupi]

I recommend thinning them to around 20 feet apart.

[ascast]

Under good conditons, Black Walnut ( and about any tree) will reach log size in 30 to40 years. That means 18 inches diameter at breast height. Now days they take logs at 10 inches minimum. Trees like lots of sunlight. I have planted lots of B walnut in the '80s and now have some to log off. It can be tough to balance out three things you mentioned, but it can be done. School up on what feeds deer and what sells for top dollar and burn the rest.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

White oak! Wonderful tree, if we're talking about the same tree. I had 30 acres in the Coast Range Mountains in Oregon. There were several dozen HUGE white oak trees, and they must have been at least a couple of hundred years old, maybe older.

If you take a slab of any oak tree and put it under a microscope you'll see lots of hollow capillaries that pass liquid through the wood. They look like minute soda straws. However, a white oak has the capillaries, but they're solid and don't pass liquid. We'll have to ask the Creator about that some day, as there are a dozen species of oak, but only the white oak has the solid capillaries.

White oak is, therefore, widely used for whiskey and wine casks. The other species will allow the contents of the cask or barrel to leak out through the wood. Well, as fate would have it, my only daughter decided to get married and me being the dad was supposed to pay for the wedding. Well, so they say...still not sure about that. I was wondering how I might come up with the funds, and happened to see an ad in a local shopper-type newspaper wanting white oak logs of a certain length and diameter minimum. I gave the number a call and learned that the logs would be shipped as cut to Chile, S.A. where they would be milled and used to make wine barrels. We stuck a deal and the wedding was paid for plus a little; but they wouldn't send me a barrel of Chilean wine as partial payment, citing Customs problems.

The moral to the story, if there is one, "Mighty Oaks From Little Acorns Grow"; but again, if we're talking about the same tree, you can fertilize, cut away surrounding trees, whatever--but you're not going to see impressive trees until maybe the 23rd Century, and at least 50 years for firewood. You'll have to think of them as a legacy.

DG

Oh, I might add, that they've been married for 30 years and I've got two almost grown granddaughters, so the investment paid off.
Still have to try some Chilean wine.

[Wayne Smith]

Check with your state forestry department. They will provide plenty of advice that is both local and professional.

[justindad]

Aggressively trim back all trees except for the oak… but just to stunt their growth. Do this during winter when the trees are dormant. For the oak, only trim sick branches when it looks like cutting will allow healthier leaves to get the sunlight.
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A variety of trees with help keep the ecosystem in balance. I keep apples trees because the hornets/wasps they bring eat the pests on my peaches.
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The fertilizer for my fruit trees says only fertilizer in early spring to mid summer. A late application of fertilizer can cause the tree to start new growth when it should be preparing for winter. Might apply to oak.
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Keep the poplar - they’ll need it for black powder in the last days.

[white eagle]

oak wilt seems to pass white oak tree's
most of my red's are firewood

[akajun]

Single species forest management with hardwoods is not good for wildlife
If you have a bad white oak acorn year you’ll have no hard mast at all.
If they’re a marketable size have a logger come in and do a “ wildlife cut” which is similar to a high grading thinning but ask him to go easy on the white oaks.
If not big enough yet, google hinge cutting and get too work. I have a few areas I went in and took out all the small trees and undesirable species, they’re still growing on the ground, the briars are growing on them, and the deer love it.

[bedbugbilly]

+1 to the suggestion of checking with your state forestry department or your county ag department. My F in L was a state forester in the UP here in Michigan. Part of the job, besides cruising and marking state timber for harvest and management was to assist/advise people on how to manage their wood lots.

Here in lower MI, we sold selected timber from our wood lots in the farm about 35 or so years ago. For those anticipating doing tyhast - it's not just about selling the timber and getting a check. You need to know "how" it is going to be done, how they intend to skid the logs top the loading area and then how you intend to clean up the crowns afterwards. If you leave the crowns - it provides cover for wildlife, but will impede new growth. Crowns can also be cleaned up for firewood. However, a logging crew can also do a lot of damage to remaining trees during felling, skidding, etc. i.e. - have a damage clause in your contract that is specific as to minimum diameter of trees they can take and damages to be paid for damage to remaining trees - and the boundaries within which they can cut and harvest. A good idea is to walk right with the logger's/buyer's cruiser as trees are marked - and get at least two quotes from two different companies if selling and not harvesting for personal use.

When we sold timber off the farm, IIRC, the IRS rules were that it could be done every 40 years as far as any pertinent tax codes. Check with a knowledgeable Accountant as far as the code and how to handle it for tax purposes. Another thing to remember is this timber is a "cash crop" - i.e. - say you have a 29 acre wood lot that is clarifies as "Agricultural" and it is assessed at $60,000.00 - $3,000.00 an acre. Then you sell $20,000.00 worth of timber off of it, you have removed $20,000.00 of crop from the acreage that technically was part of the assessment as it has been part of the property for 40- years or more and helped create the value of the property - no different than building a structure on it increases the value, but you remove the structure and the value of the parcel goes down. So . . . if you sell and remove $20,000 worth if timber from the property, you have every right to go to your local board of review and argue that the assessment on the 20 acres be lowered ad you have removed $20,000 worth of the value. You may not get a lower assessment as the could argue that you have :cleared" the property and made it more desirable as a building lot - but your response should be that it is classified as "agricultural" - that timber is a "cash crop" and the property is not classified as "residential".

Just sone things to keep in mind relating to the subject.

[WRideout]

As far as feeding wildlife, I would keep any pin oaks you may have. Deer and turkey love the acorns.

Wayne

[Bazoo]

I haven’t seen any pin oaks. I did however identify 2 ash trees. One is 40 foot tall the other 4 foot. The real treat... a small persimmon tree. About 5 foot tall. I’m going to clear everything round it and baby it. That thing is a critter magnet.

[Bmi48219]

Oh, I might add, that they've been married for 30 years and I've got two almost grown granddaughters, so the investment paid off.
Still have to try some Chilean wine.

If you’re looking for a consistent Chilean Table Wine find FRONTERA ‘Chonce e’ Toro brand’. Their Cabernet-Merlot mix and Chardonnay are have a slightly ‘young’ bite compared to more expensive vintners but way better than any others in the price range. My favorite Frontera is the Merlot. Smooth. Plus you can find it in 1.5 liter bottles. A definite bonus if your sitting more than five feet from your wine cellar.

[1Papalote]

We have county agricultural agents for such advice. They can provide information and resources. Also NRCC?

[William Yanda]

Natural selection will lead to the strongest surviving. I know nothing positive about Box Elder. Blackjack oak is less desireable to me than the other species you mentioned. Selective thinning will reduce competition for the trees you favor.

[ulav8r]

Black Jack is very undesirable, full of knots and nearly impossible to split. Dad cut one for firewood and it lasted all winter. It took that long to split it all, wore out 2 wedges and a sledgehammer.

[Bazoo]

Box elder is a type of maple. It grows fast and is often harvested and sold with mixed maples. It’s a soft maple.

I found a mature plum tree on the property. Today I found a couple nice mature white oaks. And a couple decent hickory’s. I don’t want to harvest the white oak. There is also another huge poplar. It is probably over 3’ across and massive. And I found another very nice walnut, 20” or so.

I hate to cut any of them really. But pends on what I’ll make. Be a nice boost to get my shop going right and my car in better shape.

[GregLaROCHE]

If you want it for hunting and firewood, I’d just let it grow as it wants. Nature tends to be pretty efficient when left alone. If you are looking to harvest quality logs someday, you’ll need a different strategy depending on what you have growing and the local climate. Don’t forget that things are warming up and some species may be doing better in forty years than others.

[akajun]

If you want it for hunting and firewood, I’d just let it grow as it wants. Nature tends to be pretty efficient when left alone. If you are looking to harvest quality logs someday, you’ll need a different strategy depending on what you have growing and the local climate. Don’t forget that things are warming up and some species may be doing better in forty years than others.
That is the absolute worst advise there is. Carrying capacity can be greatly increased by intensive logging. Big Pretty woods really dont offer much to wildlife once the canopy chokes out the forest floor except for a few months of hard mast production. By selectively thinning and allowing mast producing species that produce at different times you can feed in fall/ winter for an additional 2-3 months and by allowing the sunlight to hit the forest floor you can feed wildlife and provide cover for the spring and summer.
Selective thinning is basically taking the place of natural fires that did the same thing before man.

[farmbif]

first thing I would do is cut every single one of those boxelders. they grow like weeds and will crowd out everything else if given a chance. but I'm no expert. your local county extension agent will come out for free and if he is not an expert on solving your problems or answering your questions he will know who to get in touch with in your area that is and get you the expert information you need.
wish I had more white oak on my property. on my little 50 acres of north facing mountainside there are only 2 but across the road on south facing slope the land is covered with many big white oaks