40-65 smokeless loads

[RobP1]

I'm wanting to load some 4198 in 40-65 cartridges. This is for my 1885 high wall. Would it be wise to use some Dacron filler in the cases with this powder? thanks

[pworley1]

I usually use it with 4198 in large cases. I don't know if it is required but it usually tightens up my groups.

[Fitz]

I use it in my 44 1/2 Stevens CPA with a 400 gr bullet and no filler shoots inch or under most of the time , Thats at a 100 yds stretch it out past two hundred and the filler might be a game changer for the better .

[RobP1]

I want to make sure to do this right. I'm loading 22 gn do you think about 1gn of Dacron is to much? I certainly don't want to use so much that it acts like a wadding.

[marlinman93]

I want to make sure to do this right. I'm loading 22 gn do you think about 1gn of Dacron is to much? I certainly don't want to use so much that it acts like a wadding.

You do not need any dacron filler at all with 4198. I use 23 grs. with either a 350 gr. or 400 gr. cast bullet, and get good accuracy out to 1000 yds.
Been loading 4198 for many years, and never used a filler. But I refuse to use fillers with any powders I load.

[j p sixguns welldone]

what kind is your high wall? i have one of the repo's in 40-65 and would be interested in the bullet your using just got dies and brass for mine no mold yet. or if any suggestions thanks

[RobP1]

It's a Uberti 1885 with a Lee Shaver installed 14 twist barrel. I shoot a 420gn money bullet and a 420gn paper patch bullet.

[indian joe]

It's a Uberti 1885 with a Lee Shaver installed 14 twist barrel. I shoot a 420gn money bullet and a 420gn paper patch bullet.

not being critical at all just curious what the reason for wanting to shoot smokeless in a 40/65?

1)cant get blackpowder?
2)blackpowder cost
3)cleaning issues?
4)fouling issues?

1 & 2 = make it
3 & 4 = duplex loads

just curious......................

[RobP1]

not being critical at all just curious what the reason for wanting to shoot smokeless in a 40/65?

1)cant get blackpowder?
2)blackpowder cost
3)cleaning issues?
4)fouling issues?

1 & 2 = make it
3 & 4 = duplex loads

just curious......................I'm not equipped to load blackpowder. I'm already loading multiple cal. with smokeless. Plus I don't want to deal with the cleaning issues. At some point I may go to black powder but in the meantime I'll be loading smokeless. The reason I'm asking about fillers is because I want to develop the most accurate and consistent load possible with smokeless.

[marlinman93]

I'm not equipped to load blackpowder. I'm already loading multiple cal. with smokeless. Plus I don't want to deal with the cleaning issues. At some point I may go to black powder but in the meantime I'll be loading smokeless. The reason I'm asking about fillers is because I want to develop the most accurate and consistent load possible with smokeless.

IMR and H 4198 are excellent powders for the .40-65 in smokeless loads. Pressures are lower than BP pressures, and without fillers the deviations between shots are extremely small. I shoot all four of my .40-65's using 4198 and no fillers. Two Rolling Blocks a Hepburn, and a Ballard.

[indian joe]

I'm not equipped to load blackpowder. I'm already loading multiple cal. with smokeless. Plus I don't want to deal with the cleaning issues. At some point I may go to black powder but in the meantime I'll be loading smokeless. The reason I'm asking about fillers is because I want to develop the most accurate and consistent load possible with smokeless.

hmm always interesting

I dont get ........"not equipped?" ......if you are loading smokeless all you are lacking for blackpowder is the actual powder - and some card wads.

Cleaning issues I kinda get - can go shoot with smokeless and park the dirty gun back on the rack safely - can not do that with blackpowder Ever - but if you clean it after a session i reckon the BP cleanup is no more difficult .

I never fooled around with fillers in smokeless loads - sounds like a accident lookin for a place to happen to me - but I will happily load duplex cuz I know that works an its easy.

more'n one way of skinnin the cat I guess. ---have fun - be safe is all we need to do.

[marlinman93]

hmm always interesting

I dont get ........"not equipped?" ......if you are loading smokeless all you are lacking for blackpowder is the actual powder - and some card wads.

Cleaning issues I kinda get - can go shoot with smokeless and park the dirty gun back on the rack safely - can not do that with blackpowder Ever - but if you clean it after a session i reckon the BP cleanup is no more difficult .

I never fooled around with fillers in smokeless loads - sounds like a accident lookin for a place to happen to me - but I will happily load duplex cuz I know that works an its easy.

more'n one way of skinnin the cat I guess. ---have fun - be safe is all we need to do.

There's shooting BP, and then there's shooting BP accurately. Yes, you can dump a charge of BP into a case, and seat a wad and bullet, and make it go bang. But accuracy will suffer.
If you want optimum accuracy with BP loads, there's a lot more to it. A thin tissue filter wad over the primer before the powder makes for better ignition. A drop tube of about 24" is mandatory to get equal fill in each case. Over powder wads of your choice, and then how much compression your gun and cartridge like. Some like very little, and some want .10"-.20" compression for best ignition and accuracy. Then there's various wiping or blowing techniques between shots.
A little over a year ago I took the plunge into loading and shooting BP to be able to shoot in BPCR matches, and was shocked at how complicated loading, and shooting is. Cleaning the gun and the brass is probably the easiest part of it all. I'm still an amateur at it, but I've had good people take me by the hand and help me get a faster learning curve than I would if I just winged it, or tried to get it from books.

[RobP1]

hmm always interesting

I dont get ........"not equipped?" ......if you are loading smokeless all you are lacking for blackpowder is the actual powder - and some card wads.

Cleaning issues I kinda get - can go shoot with smokeless and park the dirty gun back on the rack safely - can not do that with blackpowder Ever - but if you clean it after a session i reckon the BP cleanup is no more difficult .

I never fooled around with fillers in smokeless loads - sounds like a accident lookin for a place to happen to me - but I will happily load duplex cuz I know that works an its easy.

more'n one way of skinnin the cat I guess. ---have fun - be safe is all we need to do. So do you use something like my rcbs powder thrower with the plastic hopper when you load black powder? Because that's the only powder measurer I have.

[indian joe]

So do you use a something like my rcbs powder thrower with the plastic hopper when you load black powder? Because that's the only powder measurer I have.

38/40 and 44/40 I have a powder horn the spout end of which is just neat in the case mouth pour em full with the horn - sounds rough but it works better than you might think.
That 40/65 I would make a dipper measure and scoop onto the scale - weigh every charge - then drop tube (you can make that easy) - overpowder wad (tablet backing card, LDPE or HDPE poly) I would be expecting ES chrony number to be to single digit or close.

This at 100yards from a 45/75 model 76 - I am careful but my process is not that complicated -
305097
stuff like tissue paper over the primer might make a hair of difference. I cant shoot good enough to tell that. Theres a heck of a lot of mental in this game and I think sometimes these things work because the trigger man thinks they do - tries that little bit harder or focusses that bit better - and it shows on the paper. I have posted that group several times - not so shabby - but I pulled one just a little bit and that doubled the group measure. Thats mental !!!

ps made the powder too! [smilie=w:

[tnlonghunter]

FWIW, I use 24g of 4198 with the 400g Lyman Snover bullet in CPA .40-65. I get about 2 1/2" at 200yds. I haven't tried any filler, but that's a group that makes me happy enough to stop worrying and shoot steel.

I load BP in my .45-70 Sharps, but I have not been really successful on loading it for my CPA. I suspect that's somewhat due to only having 3f on hand. I shoot a good bit of flintlock and liked the idea of only having to keep on kind of BP on hand.

Then, as said, the extra wiping and whatnot to shoot the BP rounds accurately is kind of a pain. I don't mind cleaning the rifle after a session, but having to essentially clean the bore between every shot - I have to be in the right mood to be willing to do that. So, one rifle for BP and one for smokeless works out for me.

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[indian joe]

FWIW, I use 24g of 4198 with the 400g Lyman Snover bullet in CPA .40-65. I get about 2 1/2" at 200yds. I haven't tried any filler, but that's a group that makes me happy enough to stop worrying and shoot steel.

I load BP in my .45-70 Sharps, but I have not been really successful on loading it for my CPA. I suspect that's somewhat due to only having 3f on hand. I shoot a good bit of flintlock and liked the idea of only having to keep on kind of BP on hand.

Then, as said, the extra wiping and whatnot to shoot the BP rounds accurately is kind of a pain. I don't mind cleaning the rifle after a session, but having to essentially clean the bore between every shot - I have to be in the right mood to be willing to do that. So, one rifle for BP and one for smokeless works out for me.

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

that little group in post 14 was shot dirty - I dont clean between shots - might blow tube ifn I think the weather warrants it - the 76 will do ten without losing the plot - (nut behind the but loses the plot often enough but thats another story)