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Half Dog
09-21-2022, 07:14 AM
“Don’t look at your barrel, focus on the clay”. I hear that saying but I need help understanding and a recommendation for reading material.
I am trying to transition from “focus on the front site post” to shooting skeet. The different shooting stations require different amount of lead. It seems that if I mount the gun consistently and focus on the clay then the shot will hit a consistent target. But going from station to station requires different amounts of lead.
What needs to change to accommodate the different leads?
There has been several times when I had to ask if I broke the clay. Does that point to a mounting issue?

Thanks in advance for your time and effort.

autogun
09-21-2022, 07:39 AM
Dan Carlisle or Anthony Matarese materials will help you. When you see the lead clearly you are looking at the end of the barrel to measure. Conventional wisdom is that the gun slows down and you miss behind. Practice focus by sitting under a ceiling fan and try to pick a blade to focus on. The blade will appear to slow down and you will see it as an individual blade for a brief moment. That's a Carlisle tip.

Half Dog
09-21-2022, 03:44 PM
Thanks for the response. I’ll look for those authors.

pietro
09-22-2022, 09:40 AM
.

A buttstock altered to fit the individual shooter's ergonomics will also dramatically/positively effect wing shooting with a shotgun - a plus over a mass-produced fits-all shotgun stock.

dverna
09-22-2022, 10:41 AM
.

A buttstock altered to fit the individual shooter's ergonomics will also dramatically/positively effect wing shooting with a shotgun - a plus over a mass-produced fits-all shotgun stock.

Most people do not consider this. I am pretty good at fitting a gun, but doing it right is not cheap or easy unless you know what you are doing. The attached shows how much I had to move my comb.

One valuable addition is a mid bead. If the front and mid beads are not in the same alignment each time you mount the gun, you will never shoot well.

As to the OP, many top trap shooters use Hi-Viz sights on their guns. Just focusing on the bird is not enough to make the shot. Might be different for skeet

centershot
09-22-2022, 05:08 PM
Two things:

First, the gun MUST fit properly. Once it does, aiming is accomplished by mounting the gun the same way, over and over and over..........and over.

Second, thousands of rounds of practice, just like pistol shooting. Except, in wingshooting you ignore the gun. The aiming is already done for you. Focus on the clay and swing smoothly as you press the trigger. Practice. There is no perfect. There is only practice.

These, in a nutshell, are the words of a friend of mine who held a AAA rating in ATA competiton before he passed away.

BLAHUT
09-22-2022, 05:36 PM
A lot of people will tell you to get gun to fit properly, most do not say how. learn how to fit the shotgun to you, so it points and hits where you are looking. once this is accomplished all else will fall in line with practice. a change of about 1/8 inch on the come, up or down, in or out, length of pull, can make a lot of difference as to where the shot Colom will hit at distance. change your clothes from hot weather to cold weather and you change all the measurements. I was taught to hang a bed sheet, draw a black circle about 3" in diameter and snap shoot at it, at about 10', close eyes, open eyes, just mount gun and shoot. with a number of shots a hole will develop, use the fuzzy adhesive stuff for blisters, I forget the name of the parches, use this to build the stock out away from your face to move the hole to your left, if you need to move to the right you need to remove some of the stock? when you get the pattern where you want it then you can make perminate changes to you gun. if you change clothes, it changes all your measurements. adjustable cheek piece and adjustable but plate make it easy to change all for the different clothes, if you keep close track of your measurements. with the adjustable but plate you can also rotate the gun if needed to fit properly in your shoulder? takes time, takes ammo, takes practice, when done and fitted correctly, you will hit anything you aim at consistently.

jimb16
09-22-2022, 09:57 PM
Learn what looks right at each station. If you are trying to "measure" your lead, you will miss. And quit thinking. When you think about your lead, you start to measure and you miss. See bird/shoot bird.....And keep the gun moving. Most misses are caused by getting the right lead then stopping your swing to shoot. And don't raise your head to see if you hit the bird. That is a guaranteed miss on doubles. Once the shot is gone forget it and go for the second bird. Its too late to worry about the first bird. Hit or miss, its too late to do anything about it, so get the second bird.

Half Dog
09-23-2022, 06:58 AM
Thanks for the responses. How does a beginner practice if he’s by himself? I understand I need to practice without measuring the lead and I don’t always have someone experienced enough to tell me where I missed the clay. Without just burning ammo is there a way to practice and the practice be beneficial?

Rapier
09-23-2022, 09:36 AM
A practice you can do to improve your mount and swing:
1. With two 5 pound dumb bells, practice the hand placement and body turn over and over to build arm strength.
2. Get a small mag light that fits in the muzzle of your shotgun, a 12 gauge works well, adjust the light to just a spot on the all. Then practice mounting the gun and following the wall ceiling joint, with the light's spot, using a smooth even swing.

autogun
09-23-2022, 10:25 AM
Skeet is very useful practice to train your brain and to practice running with the bird for a short distance to get the line and speed. When most people tell you that it was a miss behind, 1.) they are usually wrong and 2.) that says nothing about why.

Half Dog
09-23-2022, 04:52 PM
Get a small mag light that fits in the muzzle of your shotgun, a 12 gauge works well, adjust the light to just a spot on the all. Then practice mounting the gun and following the wall ceiling joint, with the light's spot, using a smooth even swing.
That’s a great suggestion!! I do need to practice a smooth swing.

elmacgyver0
09-23-2022, 05:03 PM
I like shotguns, but I'm more of a pistol/rifle type of guy, but not precision on anything, more of a plinker.

W.R.Buchanan
09-23-2022, 09:32 PM
OK: I just went thru all this over on another site. I was failing miserably at Skeet. after a few months of shooting I am doing much better. The single best source for Skeet info is Todd Bender. He has trained more champions than anyone alive and he is known the world over.

A friend sent me this,, It is the Todd Bender Cheat Sheet. https://cdn1.sportngin.com/attachments/document/0125/4614/BenderCheatSheet.pdf

Print it out and use it for "Toilet Reading" until you have committed everything to memory. It contains the fundamentals of foot placement, hold point, look point, and lead, for every station on the field. You can also go on You Tube and see his videos. He makes it really simple, however actually doing it is "challenging!!!"

The other single most important thing is "keeping your cheekbone on the gun at all times." If you raise your head up 1/4" off the Comb of the stock, you will shoot over the bird 3 feet high ,,, EVERY Single time! I know this for a fact but I still did it 25 times out of 50 just two days ago. all you have to do is take pressure off your cheek bone and you've raised up 1/4" and that's all it takes to miss.

I am just learning all of this stuff as I never had any formal training in this sport. At this point I am about 12 weeks ahead of you, and I am up to the high teens (17,18,19) with my .410 which I shoot better than my 12 GA. I have yet to break 20, but I am getting closer every week. If you want to be good, be prepared to shoot a lot. There is really no other way. There are several stations that will give you fits. 2 and 6 are the worst for me. Being able to shoot a whole box of shells at one station is what it takes to break thru, but once you know the shot, it is just a matter of repeating the process every time you step up.

You will learn to mount the gun then change where you are looking to the bird and hard focus on the front edge of it. This si easier said than done, but it can be done.!

Good luck!

Randy

Cap'n Morgan
09-24-2022, 09:59 AM
My best advice to the beginner is not to use sustained lead! Instead, catch and lead the target a little in front to get in line with its flight,
and then accelerate the swing while pulling the trigger in one smooth movement. The "apparent" speed of the target will ensure the correct lead
from station to station, once you get the hang of it.

Keeping a sustained swing (and trying to "measure" the lead) all too often results in stopping the swing when pulling the trigger.
You then scratch your head wondering what went wrong as the lead looked "just right" to you. This is by far the most common beginner mistake
I see with people shooting Olympic skeet, and I believe the problem is even worse in American skeet where the targets are slower and you pre-mount the gun.

dverna
09-24-2022, 04:08 PM
Good post Randy.

W.R.Buchanan
09-25-2022, 03:35 AM
Cap'n Morgan: Do you have any experience with Due Matic Traps? We just got two and they appear to be really good machines. Made in Denmark so I figured you'd heard of them?

Randy

Cap'n Morgan
09-25-2022, 07:03 AM
Capt Morgan: Do you have any experience with Due Matic Traps? We jsut got two adn teh appear to be really good machines. Made in Denmark so I figured you'd heard of them?

Randy

Randy,
I'm Quite familiar with the various Due-Matic traps. We use them exclusively at our local shooting range, and we must have about about 25 or so of various types.

As I recall it, they originally started out as "Danlac" traps. Later the company was acquired by an avid trap shooter, who believed he could improve on the design.
Over the years he worked out most of the kinks - including those who only show up after years of (ab)use - and modified the design accordingly.
Today the machines are extremely reliably, requiring hardly any service except, perhaps, new rubber for the throwing arm every fifth year or so.

It's my job to keep our two skeet ranges up and running, and so far it has only been a matter of replacing the small "broom" which fixes the clay pigeon against the throwing arm
on two of the traps - I'm sure you'll be happy with your machines.

Half Dog
09-25-2022, 07:47 AM
Eureka!! Thanks Randy for the suggestion. I have a laser boresight that I wrapped painters tape around. Enough tape to fit it to my 12 gauge. I mount the gun and run the laser dot along the wall where it meets the ceiling. I can focus both eyes on the laser dot. It seems this is an exercise to overcome my current issue with focus.

W.R.Buchanan
09-25-2022, 06:37 PM
Capt: I got ahold of the guy who sold us the traps. Talked to him for an hour and he told me these machines had been on 4 different fields before ours. They are easily 25+ years old. They are 12 volt machines and our club Pres want to run them off Solar Cells and Batteries.

He also told me about the only Maintenance they needed was to put oil in the throwing arm bearing housing every 6 months or so? He told me there was a Sprag in that housing? The blow up drawings I have of the machine doesn't go into enough detail to see that and parts list doesn't either.

Any info you could send me would be welcome. my Email is buchananprec@roadrunner.com

On another note: Since I am getting beat out of the hole by the high house birds every time on 2-6,,, I will be trying "pull ahead." Also my coaches are saying I'm measuring the targets on 3,4,5 stopping and starting and then shooting behind. Pull ahead should fix that too.

My new Citori CXS has 32" bbls and it is a bit heavy at 8lb 10oz so it is a little slow to get moving. That is why I shoot better with my .410 with 32" bbls and a pound and a half lighter. I can get it started faster.

They also suggested pull ahead to get past that too.

Randy

Finster101
09-25-2022, 06:59 PM
I guess I'm old school, but I thought most skeet guns were about 26" barrels. 32" seems real long to me.

W.R.Buchanan
09-26-2022, 12:58 PM
The old school was 26" bbls, and personally I think they had it right. The new school is 30-32" bbls. and that is because they are supposed to Swing Smoother? Also you can use the gun for Sporting Clays too.

I have no experience with short barrels except with my Tactical Guns and they are more like shooting rifles than shotguns, but it seems logical that the shorter barrels would accelerate faster out of the hole.

Looking at the Browning website yesterday I saw the "CXS Micro." Which is the same as my gun, but with 24" or 26" bbls. Now if they'd offer it with an English Stock I'd get one in a heartbeat.

The gun I'm looking for is a B25 with 26" bbls and the strait grip English Stock. But they are out of my price range unless they are junk. The good ones I've seen have all been $4500+.

Randy

RickinTN
09-26-2022, 01:16 PM
You will save money by taking lessons from a quality instructor. You can't teach yourself to do something you don't know how to do. Yes, focus on the target. If you are looking at the lead then you are not looking at the target. The different leads will take care of themselves if you look at the target and trust the shot. Don't worry about lead. Your subconscious mind is much better at breaking targets or shooting game than your conscious mind is.
Good Luck,
Rick

RickinTN
09-26-2022, 01:22 PM
I notice you are from Texas. If you are in close proximity to Dan Carlisle contact him for a session. He is as good as an instructor gets. He does teach Sporting Clays, which I refer to as the wild side. I teach Sporting Clays also. The concept will be the same and you will be a much better shotgunner if you do. When the lightbulb goes off and you realize the difference in what you have been doing and the proper way to do it will be a wonderful moment!
Again, Good Luck,
Rick

Half Dog
09-26-2022, 06:13 PM
Thanks Rick for the suggestion. However, $175 per hour, minimum 2 hrs, plus clays and ammo puts Dan out of my budget. Are there any videos that can be recommended?

alfadan
09-28-2022, 11:54 AM
Im pretty lousy with a shotgun, but found I got much better when I realized I was lifting my head off the stock "to see if I hit it" its very subconscious, but its real and will cause you to move the gun before you finish with the follow-through.

Cap'n Morgan
09-28-2022, 12:57 PM
I guess I'm old school, but I thought most skeet guns were about 26" barrels. 32" seems real long to me.

26" used to be the preferred barrel length back in the day. Nowadays 30" is much more common, especially since Olympic skeet calls for a lot of doubles and a steady swing.
My first real skeet gun was a 28" Miroku 800W, I wanted a 26" but could only have it with a 28" barrel. I ended up chopping 2" of the muzzle! I still cringe when I think about this sacrilege...

I'm nearly 6'2'' with gorilla length arms. After some years it dawned on me that I would be better off with a longer barrel, and found a nice Browning A1 trap gun that somebody had reamed out to true cylinder in both barrels. For many years I was the only skeet shooter over here with a 30" barrel. These day I shoot a 30" Beretta 682 with extended chokes making it an even 31".

Randy,
Your problems with the longer barrels are probably due to the horrible American habit of mounting the gun before calling for the target. When shooting from a low gun position you mount the gun in a more fluid motion, the gun is already moving when the stock makes contact with your shoulder.

W.R.Buchanan
09-28-2022, 01:41 PM
2 Randy,
Your problems with the longer barrels are probably due to the horrible American habit of mounting the gun before calling for the target. When shooting from a low gun position you mount the gun in a more fluid motion, the gun is already moving when the stock makes contact with your shoulder.

I have tried it that way and many of our guys shoot that way, so it's just a matter of time until I convert. one of the other "Randy's" (we have 3 "Randy's" in the club) says he has to shoot low gun so he can see the targets quicker. Makes sense cuz the barrels are in the way and especially if the target beats you out of the hole as you swing to the right.

They decided to run the Trap Batteries off Battery Chargers for the time being. I'll see where they are at tomorrow at Skeet Practice. I really like the machines, well made and relatively simple. Not much can go wrong with them.

Randy

uscra112
09-29-2022, 08:03 AM
And I thought pistol shooting was hard.......

6pt-sika
10-08-2022, 06:47 PM
When I was at the apex of my competitive skeet/trap career a lot of the better trap shooters claimed 32” barrels were to hard to get around on the second target of trap doubles . As to skeet I started with a 26” four barrel set , then went to a 26” tube set and then on to a 28” tube set . Since that time I’ve shot piles and piles of skeet with 32” guns both O/U and SxS a good many with full choke in both barrels and have shot plenty straight rounds . Now with that being said I’ve also run straight rounds with one of the Remington Bakail 20” SxS guns as well as with a number of 24” SxS’s . Heck I’ve even shot decent scores with my 8 gauge SxS guns at skeet no straight rounds but a number of 23’s and 24’s . What a lot of people don’t get when they first start shooting skeet or trap is this “the mechanics of either game is at best 15% once you’re used to the game , the big nut on a persons shoulder is the other 85% . Mounted vs low gun is in my opinion a personal thing . When I shot skeet/trap competitively I shot mounted , I also shoot swing thru which all of the hot dogs will say is incorrect and sustained lead is better . To each his swing thru has worked for me for over forty years so it’s to late to change now . Back to the mounted gun vs low anymore how I hold the gun is based on my attitude at the moment . Some days at sporting I think I need a low gun to see the targets better other days I feel mounted does better . On the skeet field I’ll shoot mounted , low or even from the hip . It’s kind of if it’s not fun what’s the point . If I’m at a pheasant or partridge tower shoot of course I shot low gun . In the pigeon ring I’ve always shot mounted gun for box birds and up until this year I shot low gun for Colombaire pigeons . But at my last Colombaire match I shot mounted gun with my head up just a bit on the stock so all I had to do was scrunch my face down while swinging the gun and my kill percentage went up a good bit in that 15 bird match I was second overall but had the long run no one got all 15 the guy that was HOA dropped 14 in the ring while I dropped 13 . I lost my two birds in the first five or race and the other guy dropped his in the middle race . My long run of 11 was high for the day . I’ve played all the clay bird games except bunker trap and I like them all . But anymore none are as much fun to me as live pigeon matches be it box birds or Colombaire .

beezapilot
10-25-2022, 03:21 PM
Well, a trick that was suggested to me is as follows. Take a small "AA" battery size Maglite, a turn or two of masking tape and it will fit nicely into a modified choke. Put on the tightest beam and look past the barrel and at the light on the wall as you practice shouldering and swinging. It's not precise, but may help you learn to look past the barrel / bead and at the target area.