Loads for cast 155gr in 30-06 with H4895

[snaggdit]

OK, sized some 155 gr gas checked cast boolits today. Looking in my books I can only find load data for 180 gr lead and H4895 isn't listed. Does anyone have a starting amount for me to try? Appreciate any input. I also have H4831 and IMR 4831 but would prefer to stick with a common powder for my loads and that has been H4895. Also considering trying H4198 (or IMR4198) as a common powder if anyone has load data for that.

[Dean D.]

My old Ideal #38 (copyright 1951) does not list IMR 4895 for that light of a boolit. It does however list a load for the 165gr. #311291 as 35.0gr IMR 4895@ 1900E (Estimated fps).

For the lighter 153gr. #311466 it lists: 4759 - 12.0gr @ 1100E, 2400 - 20.0 @ 1800E, 4198 - 23.0gr @ 1950E and Unique - 10.0 @ 1450E.

Hope this helps!

[supv26]

Cartridge: 30-06
Load Type: Rifle
Starting Loads

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Maximum Loads

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Bullet Weight (Gr.) Manufacturer Powder Bullet Diam. C.O.L. Grs. Vel. (ft/s) Pressure Grs. Vel. (ft/s) Pressure

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155 GR. SIE HPBT Hodgdon H4895 .308" 3.225" 46.0 2752 41,200 CUP 51.0 2925 45,600 CUP


NEVER EXCEED MAXIMUM LOADS


I cannot find any info for a cast bullet..........

[snaggdit]

Thanks for the help!
I looked through some older load books I had as well. In the Lyman 45th edition, I found load data for 30-06 155gr w/check for #311466, which isn't exactly the same boolit, but close.
They give data for:
Powder Start Vel Pr(CUP) Max Vel Pr(CUP)
Hi-Skor 700X 10.0 1408 22,800 13.5 1694 37,300
PB 11.5 1449 24,000 15 1697 38,600
SR7625 12.5 1512 27,000 15.5 1733 39,400
SR4756 13.5 1572 26,400 17.0 1805 37,300
Red Dot 11.0 1479 24,600 14.0 1715 35,500
Unique 12.5 1636 25,200 17.0 1941 37,300
Green Dot 12.0 1547 29,400 15.0 1748 38,600
Herco 13.5 1618 26,400 17.0 1858 39,400

And lists 17.0 Unique, 17.0 Herco and 13.5 SR4756 as accuracy loads

I see that the Unique data from Dean D is in line with this as well.

The book also gives load data for cast with gas checks for 173 gr (#311291), 176 gr (#31141), 193 gr (#311334), 213 gr (#311290), and 220 gr (#311284). For the 193 and 213 gr they list IMR 4198, and the start load of 23 gr for the 193 gr boolit is listed as an accuracy load. Too bad there isn't data for the 155 gr I am trying to use. If anyone needs any of these boolit loads, I can list them.

Since I don't have any of these powders currently, I will have to try the H4895 using LongPoints start. After subtracting 2.5% for the typical difference between IMR 4895 and H4895 (slightly faster) of course. Will head out this afternoon and try to chrono it and check for accuracy, but my chrono doesn't like the cold... It is 4 above right now!

[Boerrancher]

I cannot find any info for a cast bullet..........

In most reloading manuals you won't find a cast load. You will find them in the Lee manual as well as the Lyman, and that is about it. Depending on the firearm I am wanting to load for, I try to find a J bullet load that has a good load density, and a max pressure of 40,000 C.P.U. and reduce it by 10 %. This is my start load for cast.

The only manual I have a hard copy of is Lyman's 46th edition. It doesn't have all of the newer powders listed nor a lot of the newer cartridges, but It has everything I need to make an educated guess on what will work and what is way out. I will often times search a powder mfg's web site and pull load data form there. The best source for load info with any particular cartridge and cast boolit is right here, because I am sure that at least one of us has already been there and tried it.

Best wishes form the Boer Ranch,

Joe

[Larry Gibson]

OK, sized some 155 gr gas checked cast boolits today. Looking in my books I can only find load data for 180 gr lead and H4895 isn't listed. Does anyone have a starting amount for me to try? Appreciate any input. I also have H4831 and IMR 4831 but would prefer to stick with a common powder for my loads and that has been H4895. Also considering trying H4198 (or IMR4198) as a common powder if anyone has load data for that.

My experience with 150-160 gr bullets in an '06 with H4895 is extensive. I have used the RCBS 30-150-FN, the Lee C312-155-2R, the Lyman's 311466 and 311413, our own GBs C314-150-WFN and the LBT 154 gr bullet.

Start at 26 gr and work up in 1 gr increments to 30 gr of H4895. Use a 3/4 gr dacron filler over the powder (filler not wad, do not tamp down onto powder, just insert into the case to below shoulder). Use 5 shot groups for the initial test. Use a chronograph if possible. Best accuracy will probably come in the 1800-2000 fps range with this combination of componants. After you find the best group load 10 shots of it and 10 shots of the load above and below. Test those 3 ten shot groups. Select the best grouping one and load 3 more 10 shot strings. Test those and that will give you a very good idea of the consistency of that load with those componants.

Frankly, as much as I like H4895 with cast loads I've found it is not the best for 150 gr bullets unless you are striving for high velocity. That is a whaole 'nuther ball game and I won't cover it here. You will probably find accuracy better with powders such as 4198, 4759 or 5744. I use those powders (I prefer 4759) for loads with the light 150-160 gr bullets for best accuracy in the 1800-2000 fps range. I also use the 3/4 gr dacron filler with those powders.

What bullet are you using?

Larry Gibson

[Dean D.]

Larry - What is the aproximate size of that "3/4 gr dacron filler"? I've never use any before and was curious how you measure it.

[snaggdit]

[Start at 26 gr and work up in 1 gr increments to 30 gr of H4895. Use a 3/4 gr dacron filler over the powder.

Frankly, as much as I like H4895 with cast loads I've found it is not the best for 150 gr bullets unless you are striving for high velocity. That is a whaole 'nuther ball game and I won't cover it here. You will probably find accuracy better with powders such as 4198, 4759 or 5744. I use those powders (I prefer 4759) for loads with the light 150-160 gr bullets for best accuracy in the 1800-2000 fps range. I also use the 3/4 gr dacron filler with those powders.

What bullet are you using?[/QUOTE]

I am using the Lee 312 2R (sized to .308). I loaded some based on the earlier post and started at 29, 30 and 31 grains. Shooting in a Remington Woodsmaster 742 semi-auto. I loaded three sets of 6. 29, 30 and 31 grains. Chrono'd at ~1650, 1750, 1850 respectively. The first 2 loads did not eject the shells fully. 31 gr ejected the shells (all but 1) but didn't grab the next one. Also did not catch open on an empty clip. I think it was almost there, though. Going to try 32, 33 and 34 gr. Where should I be worried about the velocity? I used WW with added tin and antimony, hardness of 16 - 16.6. Did not water drop or heat treat. Should I?

In the gun I actually bought the mold for, my SKS (sized to .311), I found some posts on the site for loads. By combining the load info and sifting it, started with 25 gr H4895 and went up to 29. the 25 gr loads flung the shells out and loaded the next! 26 gr seemed to group the best, though. Chronod at 1450, 1850, 1900, 2070 and didnt get a reading at 29 gr. Cold messes with my battery. it was 10 above, as I said above. Most only one or two actually got a reading, so not sure about the 1450 (single reading). Also interested in more info about the filler. New to me, since I have only been reloading a few months. [smilie=p:

[runfiverun]

the filler is like adding a bit more powder, and you need to back down the load and work up again. it also keeps the powder in the same position and helps lower your shot to shot variables.
it MUST touch both the powder and boolit base.
dacron is used, as well as other things, puff-lon , kapok. cotton balls,toilet paper, and my personal favorite... dryer lint.

[snaggdit]

I did notice the sound and feel of the powder moving in the cartridges when loading the gun. At 30 gr when I usually use 50ish with jacketed bullets, it leaves a lot of room. So you use something light that takes up that room, huh? makes sense. Will that increase the blowback pressure to work the action fully at the same or slightly lower loads then? I should go back to 29 and try a filler. Worth a try. Worst case, I get a heavier mold for the 30-06. Also, sounds like I might want to try H4198. My brother in law has some we have just gotten to try in the .223 loads.

[Larry Gibson]

Larry - What is the aproximate size of that "3/4 gr dacron filler"? I've never use any before and was curious how you measure it.

I've run several tests, as have others, and found the exact weight of the dacron is not necessary. I buy the dacron in sheets ot "batting" at the local sewing/fabric store. They have it in several thicknesses. I usuall buy the one that is about 5/8 - 3/4" thick. I then cut it in strips about 3/4" wide (sharp scissors are necessary). Then I cut a few pieces of a strip and trim them until they are 1/2, 3/4, 1 and 1 1/4 gr pieces. I then just "eye ball it" when then cutting the desired weight. I go be weight here because that is a close reference for others to duplicate. Actually the chunks are used in relation to their volume for the particular application.

A "filler" needs to fill the case from the powder to the base of the bullet. Thus in a 30-06 with 4759 powder it might require a 1 gr filler. The same case with 4895 (because a larger volume of powder is used) may only require a 3/4 gr filler.

Larry Gibson

[Larry Gibson]

naggdit

"I am using the Lee 312 2R (sized to .308). I loaded some based on the earlier post and started at 29, 30 and 31 grains. Shooting in a Remington Woodsmaster 742 semi-auto. I loaded three sets of 6. 29, 30 and 31 grains. Chrono'd at ~1650, 1750, 1850 respectively. The first 2 loads did not eject the shells fully. 31 gr ejected the shells (all but 1) but didn't grab the next one. Also did not catch open on an empty clip. I think it was almost there, though. Going to try 32, 33 and 34 gr. Where should I be worried about the velocity? I used WW with added tin and antimony, hardness of 16 - 16.6. Did not water drop or heat treat. Should I?"

I'd suggest you try the dacron. As runfiverun says it is like adding a tudge more powder as it makes ignition more consistent. I'd also suggest sizing the bullets for your M742 at .311, the same as you do for the SKS. It is perfectly safe and you will get a better and more uniform ignition and time pressure curve. I've done extensive tests measuring pressures in .30 cal rifles and almost all .308/9 bores do best with .311 cast bullets. You should worry about the velocity because you are pushing above the RPM threshold as your rifle has a 10" twist with these type cast bullet loads. This means the accuracy will not be as good at 2000+ fps as it will be down in the 1800-1950 fps range. The trick here with the M742 and these lighter weight cast bullets is to get a load that functions the action, has consistent ignition and stays at a velocity for good accuracy. This is why most of us who shoot cast in auto loaders use bullets on the heavy side for the cartride. It increases the gas port pressure while keeping the velocity in the 1800-1950 fps range for best accuracy. The 311299 or 314299 is a very good heavier cast bullet choice for a 30-06 gas gun.

"In the gun I actually bought the mold for, my SKS (sized to .311), I found some posts on the site for loads. By combining the load info and sifting it, started with 25 gr H4895 and went up to 29. the 25 gr loads flung the shells out and loaded the next! 26 gr seemed to group the best, though. Chronod at 1450, 1850, 1900, 2070 and didnt get a reading at 29 gr. Cold messes with my battery. it was 10 above, as I said above. Most only one or two actually got a reading, so not sure about the 1450 (single reading). Also interested in more info about the filler. New to me, since I have only been reloading a few months."


I also get the best accuracy with that bullet over H4895 at 1850 fps velocity. Some, with Yugo SKSs, that can shut off the gas system get very good accuracy up to 2000 fps or so. I never could get excited over a bolt action SKS thoughregardless of the accuracy.

Larry Gibson

[Dean D.]

Thanks runfiverrun, Larry! I understood the concept of fillers but have never used any in the past as I've only loaded CB's for handguns in the past so rifle applications are new to me.

Snaggdit - Hope you don't mind me asking questions on this subject too. I'll be following this thread as I need to work up some loads for my mod. 70 '06.

[johnly]

My old copy of the Lyman cast bullet shows the following loads for the 151 gr. 311440 bullet:

Start 25.0 IMR4198 1736fps 13,700 cup
Max. 36.0 IMR4198 2456fps 32,800 cup

for the 160 gr 301618 Paper patch bullet

28.0 H4895 1706fps 14,500 cup
45.0 H4895 2656fps 45,800 cup

These loads should get you in the area to start out.

I'm off to the range with some loads to try some new loads and bullet sizing diameters in my 1903A1

John

[snaggdit]

OK, I'm off to Wallyworld to buy some batting. Then back to the press. I will size to .311 and try the original loads again. Too bad I'm committed to ice fishing tomorrow, it is going to be nice out (25 degrees or so). Would prefer to try the new loads... I'm kind of addicted. My wife is starting to call me boolit man:-) No prob, Dean, your guestions help me too! Larry, mine is a Yugo, but I can't see the fun in a bolt SKS either. Just happy it flings out the shells. Hope I can get the Remington to function. Probably going to look at a heavier mold. Saw a post WTS for a Lyman on this site this morning, might have to look closer.

On another topic, some of my shells yesterday didn't fire the first try in the SKS. Marks on the primer and fired the second loading try. Got started reloading by buying the whole setup from someone who was getting out of it (got a great deal, too:-)). Used some old Winchester large rifle primers he had in the stuff I bought. I have a new box of CCI, should I throw the winchesters I have left? only about a hundred anyway. Do they go bad?

[Dean D.]

Snaggdit - I saw somewhere, on this forum I think, that Winchester had a problem with some of their primers a while back. From what I understood the cups were too tough for some lighter firing pin strikes. Supposedly they have rectified the problem with the newer lots.

You might try using them in another weapon with a stronger firing pin. The thread I read it on was about using them with pistols so I don't know if its the same issue you are experiencing or not.

[snaggdit]

OK, makes sense. The indents from the SKS were not as deep as normal, but I used the same primers in the 30-06 loads and they fired fine. Guess I will use them up in those loads.