572, 800x or BE-86 in .32ACP

[kgb]

Anybody tried any of those powders in the .32 ACP? Just got some dies and have a box of 71gr FMJ to start, first loadings are BE-86 at 1.5gr and 1.7gr to try on the next range trip. Have those 3 powders in greatest amount, can always use Titegroup, and may wind up following in the footsteps of those using heavier cast from Accurate Molds.

Just don't see any data with those 3 powders listed, have any of you tried them?

[P Flados]

I load 32 ACP for a 8" stub tube TC Contender I really like shooting.

I use Titegroup mostly because I like how it meters. However, this is for Mouse fart loads with a custom 55 gr NLG and tumble lube.

When wondering about the relative performance that can be had from various powders, I find Quickload to be a great tool. However, I do not have the latest version and it looks like my version does not have any of the powders the OP asked about. Well, I will throw what I got down at the bottom of this post anyhow.

Given the QL results and looking a burn rate tables, the 800x and 572 look a little on the slow side, but the BE-86 should be pretty good.



Cartridge : .32 ACP (7.65 Browning)
Bullet : .311, 71, Hornady FMJ-RN 3200
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 0.984 inch = 24.99 mm
Barrel Length : 3.0 inch = 76.2 mm

Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders.
Matching Maximum Pressure: 22305 psi, or 153 MPa
or a maximum loading ratio or filling of 105 %

C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested
loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand
that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet
and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations.
USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !

Powder type Filling/Loading Ratio Charge Charge Vel. Prop.Burnt P max P muzz B_Time
% Grains Gramm fps % psi psi ms
--------------------------------- -----------------------------------------------------------------
Hodgdon Universal 98.2 2.9 0.19 1019 92.3 22305 4922 0.393 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant POWER PISTOL 104.5 3.8 0.24 1010 62.9 22305 5019 0.380 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant BULLSEYE 89.0 2.7 0.17 1008 84.5 22305 4787 0.381 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant UNIQUE 105.0 3.1 0.20 1006 82.4 21321 4989 0.396 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant GREEN DOT 97.5 2.5 0.16 993 97.5 22305 4369 0.396 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon Longshot 81.6 3.7 0.24 990 72.4 22305 4627 0.383 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant RED DOT 98.4 2.2 0.14 989 99.9 22305 4118 0.396 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon HP38 71.1 2.7 0.17 988 93.7 22305 4315 0.387 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon HS-6 84.9 3.8 0.25 982 69.6 22305 4528 0.384 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon TiteGroup 64.6 2.4 0.15 974 98.9 22305 3961 0.391 ! Near Maximum !

[kgb]

Thank you, does that program list 2400 powder? It's been found to be a solid performer with heavy cast bullets, to the surprise of some including me as it's another slow burner.

[rintinglen]

None of the powders you reference would make my top 5 for 32 ACP. They are all slower than Unique.

Usually, the absence of published data means that a powder cartridge combination is not suitable. And I don't see 572, 800X or BE-86 data in any manual I have to hand. But, when you make dinner, you cook with the ingredients at hand. In these days of paucity, you may have to improvise. That understood, lets look at your suggested loads.

Just a guess, but I am pretty sure that you'll find 1.7 grains BE-96 pretty anemic. I use 2.0 grains of a faster powder, ww-231, and it is not excessive. BE-86 is supposed to be between Unique and Power Pistol in burn rate. Lyman's 50th shows 2.0 grains Unique to start for a 71 grain FMJ and goes up from there, to 3.1 grains. That is where I'd go, starting at 2.0 and working up to a max of 3.0 grains, .2 grains at a time, stopping when I got positive function and ejection similar to factory. Alliant shows no data for a 71 grain bullet in their current data, but they showed 2.5 grains of Unique with 11,200 CUP in their 2004 Guide. (which strikes me as pretty low, given that the SAAMI MAP is 20,500 psi.) Lyman does not list pressure for the Unique data I use as a reference, but the highest listed pressures they published ran 15,000 psi.

Outlook 75 has done extensive testing with the heavier weight 32 boolits and 2400 and Autocomp powders. He may chime in with additional info that may be of value.

[Outpost75]

PM me with an email address which can receive about 5MB of .pdf attachments and I can send the data dump on .32 ACP. But easy answer is that 2 grains of TiteGroup or 3 grains of Autocomp works well with any bullet from 71-90 grains.

Accurate 31-081H fits in short throats, feeds in everything and is a good choice if your pistol is not a reliable feeder with JHP or flat noses.

The 31-077B, 31-084H and 32-090B all resemble the Buffalo Bore shape, but with a longer .26" nose length to prevent to prevent rimlock.

[kgb]

Thanks, the PM is on the way!

I've got Titegroup, plan on that being the primary powder, but always like having options especially those that have proven themselves in the cartridges I've loaded a lot.

Took the 1.5gr and 1.7gr BE-86 charged cases to the range and......left the chronograph at home. First round of the 1.5's stovepiped on ejection from a PP, the rest cycled the PP and a Cheetah M81 except two which would not allow either slide to close. They will chamber in my Single Six .32 H&R, I'll take some measurements to see how they're different, then load more of the same plus two more .2gr increase versions and take the chronograph along.

Have been reading advice on threads here about OAL requirements, avoiding rimlock, etc., didn't go so far as to drop test each round, only a couple at first once the dies were set. Using Lee carbide dies, do not yet have a factory crimp die.

Really like the look of the 31-087B, maybe 090B, as useful in the H&R as well. Have to slug the pistol barrels before getting a lubrisizer die.

[P Flados]

Actually, I only included the "best powders". Here are some more results.



Alliant HERCO 105.0 3.0 0.19 885 71.4 15986 4140 0.453
Alliant BLUE DOT 105.0 3.9 0.25 768 41.3 12784 3060 0.493
Alliant 2400 105.0 4.5 0.29 745 32.2 12341 2812 0.498

[kgb]

Good information in the files from Outpost, one article mentions case dimensions and I've found the rounds that didn't chamber are PPU. Some of them fed, fired and ejected fine along with others, measuring and segregating brass is on the agenda. Have been lucky with 9mm and .45ACP brass running brand-agnostic through my dies and pistols, will have to sort the Herters, PPU, Winchester, Remington, Fiocchi and any others I've picked up along the way.

[kgb]

Low charges have given low speeds, 1.5gr BE-86 475fps, 1.7gr 580fps, 1.9gr 600fps in the M81 and they all ejected fine. I'll be buying a new recoil spring for that gun. 5 shots with each charge, velocity spreads ran 135fps, 56fps, 50fps as charge increased.

Ran the finished shells into a carbide .32 S&W Long sizing die minus the decapping pin, all shells fed through the Beretta. Prior to using that sizing die some would not drop fully into the gun's chamber

[kgb]

Finished up at 2.9gr and 920fps, extreme spread over 6 shots was 83fps. At 2.7gr I got 884fps and a spread of 29fps over 6 shots, these all through a Beretta Model 81.

Low on those bulk 71gr FMJ bullets, I'm going to work with WW572 until they're gone. It flows well through the measure at heavier charges up to 5.0gr in the .32 H&R Magnum as does BE-86, and has been pretty well available as anything else lately.

[kgb]

WW572, again with 71gr FMJ bullets and Remington 5.5 primers through the Beretta 81, only 3 shots each, avg fps/ES/# of shots registered.
2.3gr 692/30/3
2.5gr 771/45/3
2.7gr 848/2/2
2.9gr 925/34/3

Only two shots registered with the 2.7gr loading, none of these were shot for POI or accuracy. I finally took chamber castings from the barrels of the 2 guns, Beretta's is .001" greater than the Walther, bore is .001" larger as well at .311" vs. .310" and rifling starts at around .100" from the chamber end for each. The Walther chamber might be a slight amount longer, I cannot be that precise from my castings.

A friend has given me a bag of PPU 71gr HP jacketed bullets, they're listed as .308" so I wonder how they will load and cycle.
https://www.grafs.com/catalog/product/productId/29124

[BadgerShooter]

Ken Warners "Pet Loads" article on the 32 came up with 700X as the best combination at the time. I tried it recently in a variety of quality 32's from Seecamps to Webleys and it turned in some solid performance. Worth a look.

[kgb]

I've turned to cast bullets, Ed Harris had mentioned the 94gr Meister LFN in loadings for his .32ACP rifle and I have found the batch I purchased measure just over .311". They load easily into one brand of brass I tried, and making up some dummy rounds I found at .97" OAL they fit in the Beretta 81 magazine. They have to be seated under .94" to fit the PP magazine, so I loaded some at .97" and for the PP just loaded one into the magazine then let the slide chamber it from there. Through the M81 they fed fine.

I was going to try some of the powders I used for the FMJ loads, but a friend gave me some AutoComp to try, and Ed has done the workups with it in heavy lead loads. I backed it down to 2.5gr, still using up Remington 5 1/2 primers, and they gave 896fps for an average of 5 shots with a spread of 38fps. The single round through the PP made 915fps. 5 of them through a .32 H&R Single Six averaged 809fps, wider spread of 98fps. I had been testing a rifle at 50 yards, and just ran the .32ACP lead through the chronograph before the wind blew it over. Didn't check for accuracy, just noticed the automatics printed high and the revolver put them pretty close together on the backstop.

The LFN are easier to seat straight with the seating die of my .32 Long/H&R set, the Lee ACP seater looks made for FMJ round noses, but I couldn't get them all seated straight. With plenty in the way of factory FMJ, I'm going to settle on loading the flat nose commercial cast. I'll try to get closer to 850fps with a couple tenths less of AutoComp, and work up some with BE-86 and 572 for when the AutoComp runs out....if it runs out any time soon at under 2.5gr each.

[shooting on a shoestring]

I suggest you grind your seater stem flat for seating flat nosed boolits.
I’ve done that using just a bench grinder with great results.
And if you screw one up, you only lose a replaceable part. Although I’ve never lost one.
I go slow and keep the stem rolling between my fingers as I grind. Doesn’t have to be perfect, just close enough. Actually nothing is perfect on dies, ammunition or guns. It’s all dimensioned just close enough.

Seating flat nosed boolits with a flat seater stem works real good! I have a flat ground seater stem in all the calibers I seat flat nosed boolits. I usually sacrifice the round nose seater stem from a die set because I see round nose boolits as useless.

[stubshaft]

I just turn the seater stem upside down and put a dab of JB Weld in it and viola...flat seater stem.

[kgb]

That would be silly for my dies, the .32 Long/H&R seater is flat and seats perfectly, plus it does the crimping or straightening of the flared brass just fine. Don't even use the Lee ACP die for that. I have read of using epoxy to customize the seater form, if I were going to load RN bullets it's what I'd look into. I was looking at older Colt and S&W .32 Long revolvers, and have gathered some brass for one, but these pistol loadings with the same bullets I'd use in those six shooters has stopped the search. For now, anyhow.

[Kosh75287]

I have no specific load data to offer, but you will probably find that 2400 works best in .32 ACP for cast projectiles weighing 77 grains and up.

[Outpost75]

.32 ACP "Heavy Ball" Data:

Remington .308" diameter, 93-grain FMJRN (.30 Luger bullet)
R-P case, CCI500 primer, ctg. OAL 0.979"

3.0 Unique 895 fps @ 20,600 psi
3.0 Autocomp 895 fps @ 21,200 psi

Hirtenberg 77-grain FMJ 981 fps, 21,600 psi

.32 ACP "Full Charge" CIP equivalent data
R-P case, CCI500 primer,
Remington .311" diameter 71 grain FMJ, OAL 0.977"

2.6 Bullseye 946 fps @ 16,000 psi
3.0 Unique 967 fps @ 17,000 psi
3.3 Autocomp 948 fps @ 15,800 psi
3.6 Autocomp 1084 fps @ 19,200 psi

[kgb]

Dropping to 2.3gr of Autocomp gave those Meister SWC bullets 820fps in both pistols, using the same .97" OAL. Interesting that the little yellow .17cc powder scoop that came with the Lee dies puts out 2.3gr of Autocomp pretty much on the nose. I've never used those scoops before, always a scale or the dropper used on a Dillon 550, and this one with this powder was super consistent, dropping them into the scale pan to check each one. Nice option to have.

[kgb]

Interesting thing about those PPU JHP, the noses are flat enough to seat straight using the SWC seating stem that works so well with the Meister cast bullets. I geared loads toward the Walther PP since it doesn't like the Meister at .97" OAL, and 2.5gr Autocomp gave 776fps while 3.0gr Autocomp boosted to 968fps. Switching to 2.2gr of Titegroup, velocity hit 958fps and they shot a very small group. Oddly, despite the velocity being in the realm of factory 71gr FMJ, for the first time the pistol stovepiped several rounds. Something about the impulse of the powder?

I also tried Titegroup with the cast Meister slugs, 2.0gr at 895fps and 2.2gr at 957fps, both accurate and the faster load the best group I've gotten with anything in the PP, 5 shots in an inch at 10 yards. These cycled the gun, and finishing up the day I shot factory Remington (872fps), Herters (1022fps) and S&B (996fps) as "control" rounds for the chronograph.

I also shot some of these in the Beretta M81, among the PPU loads only the 3.0gr/Autocomp which gave 1006fps, and the two loadings with Meister cast and Titegroup, again the faster load (948fps) was the most accurate.

One issue, I'd set the seater to put the Meister rounds down in the cases, OAL .950, this potentially raising pressures but also finding they fit in the magazine of the PP and fed well through it.

Having sized all of the brass prior to loading this last batch, I found a variety of case mouth I.D. among them. Smallest are Fiochhi at .301-.302", so I used those for the PPU FMJ which are .308". Herters are .303-.304" as are the PPU, PMC ranges from .304-.306", Winchester are .306-.308" and largest are Remington at .309". These are taking 5 samples of each brand and using calipers, Remington brass was used for the Meister lead bullets.

Those tighter groups were also closest to the sights with the Walther, a bit of drifting will pull them in line and the top of the sight might come down enough to get impact right on. WW572 and BE-86 will be worth trying with the PPU bullets as I did with the .311" FMJ the first time around, and same with the cast bullets, but if they bring no joy the Titegroup loadings will be plenty good enough.