10mm alloy suggestions that won't cause leading?

[Tripplebeards]

Went to the range today with my first try with 160 grain HPs. I sized to .402. Shooting a glock 20 that slugged mostly at .400. I few spots measured. 400.5 and one spot .401. I loaded up 23 rounds to try. I only crimped enough just to remove the flair. To the point some of thr cases wouldn't fall out on their own. So I know I didn't over crimp and size my boolits down. I am using 16:1.pure soft lead and pewter. Bh I'd 7.5 last I checked. My load I tested was 7 grains of unique. The only thing I can think of is im using to soft of an alloy? Never leaded a barrel till this 10mm came along. Wondering how hard of an alloy I should be using so I don't have leading issues? I'm casting HPs so I don't want to go to hard so I have expansion. I loaded up some 180 grain AMEC boolits and had zero leading. They are also sized at .401 ...but measure .402.

Here's after 23 rounds. It cleaned right off with 3 strokes of chore boy wrapped around a brass brush. So not bad but any leading to me isn't good.


304554

My boolits I used. You can see there is no visible crimp point which makes me think I am pushing to soft of an alloy to hard?

https://i.imgur.com/LaiHXTX.jpg

[BK7saum]

Did you pull a bullet after seating? 16:1 is pretty soft and boolits can be sized down due to neck tension. Just because you arent overcrimping doesn't mean they aren't already .399 or so.

What is the diameter of your neck expander?
I use a 0.401 neck expander/m-die to seat my 0.401+" bullets. There is plenty of neck tension to hold the bullet in place.

[Catshooter]

It's not the crimp that can size the boolit down, it's the carbide sizing ring in the Lee Factory Crimp die that might. The way to tell is to pull a boolit and measure.

Also, that looks like a polygonal barrel, Glock? Every Glock I've fired lead in (9mm, .40, 10mm and .45 GAP & ACP) all needed water-dropping to stop the leading.

First, size, then hardness. Just like you're thinking.

[Cast10]

I shoot a mix of SOWW+Hardball and yields approx. 11.3 with ZERO leading in my G20 and all my Glock 9’s. All Glock’s are using OEM barrels. I also have a 10mm 16” carbine with zero leading.

My G20 slugs at .4002 - .4005. I powder coat and size afterward to .401.

16:1 alone is approx. 11 BNH with Pewter at 23. Mixing these has to yield more than what I’m doing.

I also use a M expander die before seating the bullet, than just enough crimp where I can’t push the bullet back into the case; Pushing against my reloading bench.

My guess is the sizer at .402 may be too large and the bullet is not obturating enough to seal with a somewhat hard mix. Just my guess if I’m understanding you right.

[cwlongshot]

You have all the luck!!!

I have exact mold. I shoot 16:1 and my mix to about 12/14 bhn.

I load with Blue Dot to over 1300 fps and expansion is almost a nickel but its balled up nicely. NEVER a lock of anything in my barrel.

CW

[Tripplebeards]

My 16:1 tests really soft for some reason at 7.5 BH. My COWW and pure lead flooring 50/50 mix comes in at 10.4 BH. I wonder if I can use my 50/50 mix instead of hard ball? I also have 100% COWWs in two different harness at 12.9 and 14.0 set aside. I would assume straight COWW will be to brittle for expansion? Any chance I will get the HPs to expand with the harder alloys? I would assume the 50/50 COWW and pure mix would but will it be hard enough? I am shooting out of my factory glock barrel. Never mixes hardball before…I’ll have to google the mix. I can tell you the alloy I’m using now is extremely soft. It works fine PC and with a GC up to 2100 out of 35 Rem but apparently doesn’t like to be pushed hard with out a GC. I am using a hornady die set to FL size, to flair the necks, and to seat my boolits. I use a lee crimp die for crimping and buldge busting.

Somebody needs to teach me how to make 16:1 some day. I would assume instead of pure lead to use COWW and pewter? It’s about the only way I’d get the hardness that is listed for it.

I’ve leaded my barrel 2ce in the last two days. Once because of someone’s reloads that were crimped to tight. These I never pulled to check the size. They were resized it was just from the the seating into my cases. I loaded ACME boolits the same and had zero leading so I think they are just to soft and,or, sized down just from getting seated in the cases?

[Kosh75287]

I think I'd gravitate toward Lyman #2 alloy for throwing 160s fast out of a 10mm.

[Larry Gibson]

If the BHN is 7.5 then the alloy is closer to 40-1. As mentioned, a 16-1 alloy should be in the 10+BHN range.

[Tripplebeards]

So out of my alloy pile I have pure lead flooring at around 4/5BH. I have plenty of pewter. I also have plenty of ignots of COWW’s. They are two different alloy hardnesses of either 12.3 or 12.9 if I remember… and the other is 14 BH. Any suggestions on combining these choices for a good HP alloy that won’t lead in my 10mm? I’ll be PCing them as well.

[Cast10]

Read up on this link. It’s the Lead Alloy Calculator. You can play with it and arrive at any mix you desire.
Example; I use Stick on wheel weights (SOWW) and Hardball. I’ve come up with 7 lbs of SOWW and 5.25 lbs of Hardball. You enter these two numbers in the blank to the right for these two alloys. The numbers at the bottom are what you desire. It yields SN 1%, SB 2.57%, and PB 96.4%. It also tells you the BHN is approx 11.3.

Give it a try.

https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?105952-Lead-alloy-calculators

[Tripplebeards]

Guessing my pewter I used for this alloy had a lot more lead in it than tin. It was mixed up a few years back. I have since stuck with dinnerware items so I would assume the BH would be a lot higher than my current alloy. Since I have quite a bit of COWW alloy and pure wondering if I can do a 50/50 mix (which is a little soft last time I tested at 10.4 BH) or just COWW and pewter to bump it up in BH? I have two different COWW alloys set aside. One is around the 12 range for BH and the other is 14.

[Cast10]

The calculator shows 50% ClipOn Wheel Weights (COWW) and 50% Pure Lead at approx 10.1 BHN. It shows SN .25%, SB 1.50%, As .13%, and PB 98.1%.

[Tripplebeards]

Yep, one tested 10.4 BH. Just wondering if it’s going to be hard enough to run or should I just use one of my harder COWW alloys’s that jump up to 12 and 14 BH?

[Cast10]

I would say that will not be hard enough for 10mm. I’ve only shot 11.3 and powder coated boolits with no problems. I chose the 11.3 for some possible expansion, which it does when it hits something.
If you have something in the 12-14 range, yep. I’d also try to test some lead so you know what it actually is. I use the pencil method and its not a big cost. Also remember, as you get started you have to work things out. I had to!
It’s all about finding something your pistols will shoot. Each barrel is different.
If the lead is too hard, it wont obturate (swell under pressure) to seal the gases behind the bullet and will CUT around the edge of the bullets, causing leading. Also, the .402 could be cutting the bullet. If you PC the boolits, they may gain a bit more. Just some things to look at.
I tend to push my 10mm’s to a true 10mm load. Not sure what 7-7.5 Unique is considered. I don’t shoot near max/nuclear. Good luck.

[Tripplebeards]

I use my lee tester to check hardness. So either alloy in COWW should work. I might cast some up in both the 12 bh and 14 BH alloys and test. I was just worried that they might be to brittle. I would assume at 10mm velocities they will stay together.

[Tripplebeards]

I casted 4 pounds of the 14BH coww and added 2% pewter to it. I PCd a deep purple...

https://i.imgur.com/WcOpPHX.jpeg

I casted up 3 pounds of the softer coww alloy that was in the 12 range and also added 2% pewter to it. I made those orange. I also did some smash test with the orange...I'll have to do the same with my purple mix.

https://i.imgur.com/mTaj8Hn.jpeg

I sized them all to .402 and call tell you it took quite a bit more force to both of these alloys vs the 7.5BH alloy. I also filed down a test boolit of each alloy and will test the BH in a few days. If I rember coww alloy gets almost to its maximum hardness in 3 days. I know the rule of thumb is around 15/30 days if I remember correctly

The coww alloy always looks frosty silver vs the shiny, almost pure soft, 7.5 BH alloy
Also the coww alloy brakes apart.like it's brittle when the sprue cut off hit the towel. My softer alloy doesn't.

https://i.imgur.com/hkPYdHt.jpeg

[Tripplebeards]

Wish me luck. I am trying to mix 16/1 again. Pretty much figured out why i ended up with 7.5 BH. The "16/1 so called" alloy I used. I mixed up back in 2017 when I first started casting. It's when anything that "looked" like pewter went into my casting pot. I have been only using dinnerware items for the last 4 years now but never added more than 2% or 50% pewter with COWW for alloys. Back in 2017 when I mixed the soft alloy I beleive I checked what I called pewter with a lee hardness tester. It only came up at 7.5 BH...lol. I just tested some of my current pewter ignots that I WQ when I dropped them. Don't know if WQ made any difference but they were 21 BH. My lead flooring I was using and am using today still tested at 10 with the lee tester 2ce. So it's 4.7BH according to the lee chart. I'm am mixing up 8 pounds of the 4.7 flooring with .8oz.of the 21BH pewter as I type. I'll pour into a few ignots. I'll drop one cold water and test.riggt away. The others I'll let air cool. As Larry suggested if I am higher or lower in BH to add one or the other. I would assume 16/1 is in the 11 to 12 BH range?

So 4.7 bh mixed 16/1 with 21BH...stay tuned for the BH outcome!!!!!lol

[Tripplebeards]

Water quenched my alloy I just mixed. I let it cool in water for about 10min and it tested at 10.4BH! I did it!!!.lol. Is that going to hard enough for full throttle 10mm velocities or should I bump the hardness up a little with some more pewter? Maybe before I get to hastey and add more pewter to my mix I'll let it sit for a few days and see it hardens any more. But I was positive the mix doesn't need WQ and will harden to its hardest without any waiting as soon as it cools down if I remember correctly? My guess with pewter you never really know what's in it.

It's basically the exact same hardness as my 50% coww with 50% pure lead and 2% pewter added to the total.

[Cast10]

Those PC boolits look good!

I’m not sure about 10.4 BNH running at 7gr Unique. All I can say is if your ok with your data, give it a run.
Not sure if some TIME will allow the boolits to harden more. Maybe someone can answer that.

[Hickok]

Tripplebeards I would say it will work.

I run 50/50 COWW/pure lead , PC'ed out of my Glock 20, at 1200 fps with 180 gr. cast boolit....no leading.

In fact, I have been using 50/50 and Smoke's Powdercoat for all my loadings for handguns with great results.

[Tripplebeards]

I only mixed up 8 pounds in my lee 4/20 pot and poured it into ignots. It’s very easy for me just to melt it back down and add more pewter. So optimum hardness 12, 13, 14BH…or a little harder?

Thanks for the help.

[Tripplebeards]

The I added 6oz more of pewter and got it to 11BH today. Casted up about 7 pounds worth till my Mold pins started sticking and wouldn’t close shut. I PCd them and will have to size and load a few tomorrow.

https://youtube.com/shorts/awnq-2Rc7-c?feature=share

https://i.imgur.com/PYdFGOe.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/J0NiQBw.jpg

I traded off all the 7.5 BH HPs to a member for some 243 J words. Kept me from having to smelt all the pretty boolits back down .


I ll have to retest my COWW boolits in a few more days. They are WAY harder than I expected. The softer one…lol…is 17.9BH and the other is 14BH. Apparently the softer one got REALLY hard for some reason when adding 2% pewter. They are both air cooled as well. Wouldn’t think a HP at that alloy would open at 10mm velocities? If so maybe blow the HP pedals off?

Those COWW alloys both came out of brand new COWW boxes. Different brands. I acquired a bunch of each from Sears when the auto center shut down. They were from the late 70’s or early 80’s. The COWW that tested 14 was pretty close to that hardness to begin with. The other that tested 17.9 was only 12.3 or 12.7 if I remember when I tested it five years ago. I will retest in a few days to see if they change.

[Tripplebeards]

Tested both coww alloys today. The softer one is 12.5BH (the one that tested at 17.9 twice yesterday) and the harder one is 15.4BH( the one that tested 14BH yesterday). I will check again in a week.

[Tripplebeards]

I loaded up 15 each in all three alloys to try. Figured I'd still wait a few days for the coww alloys to fully harden. My guess is they are probably 99% done hardening. I seated a test boolit of thr softest alloy which was 11bh 16:1. I then pulled a measured. It was still at the original size of .402. I also did the same test after applying a crimp. I adjusted my hornady crimp die down even out the flare on the bell and to let my case fall in and out of my glock 20 barrel. The outside of the crimp measured .423 to .424 in spots.

Dummy round tested to see if my boolit sized down. I used my Hornady crimp die instead of the lee. As stated above they might get sized down with the carbide ring in the lee so I used the hornday just in case...and from now on when I crimp these.

https://i.imgur.com/L9fVl40.jpg


Pulled and measured after seating and crimping...

https://i.imgur.com/KN8uEPN.jpeg

All loaded up with 7 grains of unique. I loaded them a hair longer to 1.270" since I had more room in magazine. Figured it would cut down on the pressure and velocities a little but imo being closer to the lands increases accuracy. I so weighed each group of alloyed boolits and they are all within 1 grain of each other.

Feeling pretty confident that bone of these will lead my barrel. Guess I'll find out soon.
The blue boolits are 11BH, orange are 12.5BH, and purple are 15.4 BH as tested for alloy hardness yesterday.

https://i.imgur.com/V9oVERa.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/pePAqS6.jpeg

[Tripplebeards]

Just got back from the range. I tried 12.5 BH coww alloy first. I don't know if I would call what I saw leading? Almost looked like a light grey color in the rifling. A few strokes of my chore boy wrapped brush and the barrel looked clean. Then I tried the 15.4 coww alloy. Looks like I had a little leading. I used my chore boy brush again and cleaned what looked like leading out in about a minute of scrubbing. Definitely saw lead streaking. I then shot the 11BH. I had a light wash of leading. Took a couple minutes of cleaning and all was removed. All the leading I observed was towards the end of the barrel. I did notice some lead spotting in the crown area with the 12.5 BH. So imo they all showed signs of leading. The ACME 180 grain. 401 did not a few weeks back using 5.8 grains and 6 grains of green dot. I'm wondering if I'm pushing these to hard with 7 grains of unique? The velocity should have been around 1150 fps. Would assume to much pressure? Before I give up on this project I'm debating on trying all the same alloys again with 5.8 grains and 6 grains of green dot. Also wondering if I need to order a wolf barrel? They are only around a $107 shipped and have regular type rifling in them. Also wondering if I need a GC mold for 10mm if I want to run HP boolits at soft enough BH so I get expansion. Kinda scratching my head on this project. I've loaded for my 77/44, 450BM, 336, 45 colt Ruger new vaquero, 329NG, and ruger 9mm all with zero leading. This 10mm glock is really kicking my butt.

[Laguna Freak]

I’m shooting a 2-2-96 160 HP sized bore + .001” in .40 S&W 4” bbl. Load test 6.2 to 6.8 gr Silhouette left virtually zero leading after 30 rounds. 20 rounds 6.8 to 7 gr left a little leading. 7 gr shot best groups ~ 1.5” at 21 yards. I may decide to live with a little leading.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[shooting on a shoestring]

I suggest your focus should be on the other end of the boolit flight, the stopping end. Tune your alloy (and add a trace of copper) to get the best performance with the best velocity to stop your boolits in the 4th water jug in a row. As long as the barrel leading is small enough not to cause degradation in accuracy over a magazine or two, you’re golden.

Then move to a easy to cast boolit of the same weight so POI is same as hp boolit. Spend your time, money and primers to get that practice round to shoot clean as you want. You’ll shoot lots of those and very few hp’s.

Let me further suggest that Unique is a poor choice in 10mm unless you’re seeking to down load to 40 ballistics. You might get your hp to shoot clean with a minimum charge but I think you should give up trying to shoot Unique at 7 grains while looking for no leading. Blue Dot, AA7 and AA9 will stand a better chance of getting you to no leading.

Also, my experience with my OEM G20 barrel is it has a very poorly cut chamber. The back half is over SAMMI specs. This does help it to feed and gives clearance for dirt. But, the cartridge sits at an angle to the bore axis. I moved to a KKM barrel and found it gave me a wider window of loading to get both accuracy and no leading.

I was also frustrated with the velocity spreads I was seeing until I boosted the recoil spring weight to 22 pounds.

But…..
Instead of using hp’s I went to Accurate 40-172F and shoot them around 1300 - 1350fps. They mushroom nicely and stop in the 4th jug. And they’re easy to cast. That’s my definition of success in 10mm.

[Tripplebeards]

Thanks for the reply. I haven’t had a chance to shoot the pistol since archery season has using up my time. I did powder coat over my .402 Boolits which took them to .404. I plan on loading some up with Greendot and testing them. I’m gonna leave the unique alone from now on with 10 mm and Cast. If the .404 still lead i’ll look at either polishing the inside of my barrel or just buying a replacement wolf barrel for 100 bucks. Once I get a chance to shoot them at the .404 diameter I’ll post if I had any leading or not.

[jonp]

I agree with shooting on a shoestring. Unique works but isn't the best choice for the 10mm at least in my Poly 80 Glock clone. Haven't tried Smokes powder yet but I have some sitting on the table waiting.
Please do post on that .404 size as it sounds a little large to me. With that IDK if I would size the boolit a little smaller then powder coat. Maybe size to .401? That's what I am going to try with my new 10mm. Probably start at 12bhn. Looking for target loads not top end stuff. I've never used Green Dot but some swear by it especially in the 45acp for target.

[Tripplebeards]

I’ve already tried them at .402 diameter with leading. The largest spot in my barrel was .401. I honed out a lee .401 die to .402 for sizing. After the .402 powder coated boolits leaded in 4 different alloys ranging from 7.5 to 15.3 BH. i powder coated a second layer over the .402 powder coated and then sized to .402 boolits. They are consistently measuring .404 now. I’m guessing I have a ruff bore and or the unique powder could be the issue with a fast burn. According to load data some members have helped me with for 10mm and 160 grain boolits (my HP cast average 158/159 grains) it says I’m still a grain and a half or so under max loadings. So I want to eliminate the idea of “an undersized” boolit before I move on to a barrel issue. I will be trying out green dot powder for future loads since I have close to 8 pounds of it and basically nothing else for pistol powders. I didn’t have a leading issue with 180 grain, .401, ACME boolits with leading using a mid weight change of green dot. Think I was around 5.8 grains and then re tested with 6 grains if I remember. I will have to look at my reloading notes. But I’m using a 20 grain lighter cast boolit this time around. I would assume the greendot pushed the ACME boolits with a lot less pressure than the 7 grains of unique load and 20 grains less in boolit weight. I have a craftsman scope I will have to see if I can try and fit down my barrel to see if the bore is ruff.

[Ramjet-SS]

Rough bore might be the issue to bad you didn’t have an after market barrel to try

PM me I have one you can try for fellow cheesehead 🤣

[Tripplebeards]

Yeah I sure would like to try an aftermarket barrel. I don’t have any buddies around that own a on a Glock 10 mil with an aftermarket barrel or I borrow it to try.

[gwpercle]

Tripplebeards I would say it will work.

I run 50/50 COWW/pure lead , PC'ed out of my Glock 20, at 1200 fps with 180 gr. cast boolit....no leading.

In fact, I have been using 50/50 and Smoke's Powdercoat for all my loadings for handguns with great results.

:goodpost:
Like !

I've had the same results with 50/50 COWW & soft lead ... boolits air cooled and lubed with Lithi-Bee lube . 9mm to 1200 fps , 30-30 win. to 1600 and Handguns in 38 , 357 , 41 mag , 41 special and 45 acp .
About 7 years ago my free unlimited COWW source retired from the tire business ...
I had all this lead sheathing scrap from the construction business , read about 50-50 in hunting section and started using it to stretch my COWW supply.
I like it better than straight COWW and like Hickok ... no leading !
Gary

[Ramjet-SS]

Yeah I sure would like to try an aftermarket barrel. I don’t have any buddies around that own a on a Glock 10 mil with an aftermarket barrel or I borrow it to try.

DM me

[Tripplebeards]

So I’m finally getting back on this project! Bow season and rifle deer season is over here. Muzzle loader hunting with my unused buck tag is open till Thursday. Then anterless only Thursday through Sunday. So after a week I’m going to test again. I couldn’t hunt today with relatives in town so I loaded up a dozen of 16:1, 11 BH and some 12.5BH in 50/50 COWW alloy today. I had a little leading with both alloys sized at .402”. I powder coated both boolits again and didn’t size. They measured .404”. When I do the plunk test without any crimp applied some dropped right in and some stopped about 3/4’s of the way into the chamber. I did not apply any crimp what so ever but ran them up completely into my lee crimp die with the crimp adjustment plug screwed all the way up to the top. Just from running them into my crimp die without crimping was enough to push the case neck flare in and just enough that my loaded ammo drop in and out easily. I measured a couple of the necks after running them through the crimp die without crimping. They measured .423”. The boolits seemed to hold in place without any crimp applied so I will test this time without any crimp applied. I still need to pull one and make sure they are still at .404”. I’ll try and pull one later today and report back. I also loaded them long at 1.272” along with a slower power and lighter charge. I tried 7 grain of unique last time. This time around 5.8 grain of green dot. I didn’t have any leading with .401 ACME boolits but did with my own cast HP’s sized ar .402 for some reason. I did try a hotter powder and higher charge which could have been the issue. The other issue I was worried about was maybe having a ruff bore. I swabbed the barrel today with some mothers chrome polish a good 50 to 60 times. Never got the black colored oxidation I get when polishing metal. So I tried again for about a minute and a half. The polish never turned black but was more of a darker brown. Hopefully if there were any burrs or ruff jagged cuts in my rifling they smoothed out. I’ll test the week after this coming to see if I get any leading. I didn’t pull a boolit to see if it got down sized after seating and knocking down the fair. I did load an extra so maybe I’ll pull and measure one before I hit the range.

https://i.imgur.com/sbSKfXI.jpg


Now that I’ve had time to think about my leading issue. I’m wondering if the 7 grains of unique was just to hot and torched the base of my boolits? Guess I ll find out when I go shoot next week. I figured between trying to polish the inside of the barrel, load with a lesser charge with another powder, and jumping up .002” in boolit diameter should hopefully keep me from leading on my next test. Fingers crossed!

If it still leads I might have to take members up on borrowing an aftermarket barrel.

[Tripplebeards]

I pulled one each color since one was in brass and the other in a nickel plated case. Both down sized to .400". I would assume it was from running them through the lee crimp die. I'll have to pull them all and start over using my hornady die's crimp.

[AlaskaMike]

7 grains of Unique should be just fine. I used that with my 175 grain Lee truncated cone bullets and it worked well. My alloy is just COWW + 2% tin.

[megasupermagnum]

I think you are on the right track on sizing. It might be worthwhile to try some bullets with regular wax lube too just to eliminate coating issues as a problem.