Hot Water Tank Is Leaking!

[centershot]

I went to the basement to get a can of paint this morning and the floor in front of the hot water tank was wet. It looks like it's leaking from somewhere on the bottom, so I'm assuming this is a terminal situation. I've always told myself that when the tank dies, I'd put in an "on demand" water heater. Checking prices at Lowes and Home Depot have me reconsidering that thought. A new gas-fired water tank starts around $500, a gas-fired tankless heater runs 3X that! Yikes! I'm looking for some advice here, but I'm pretty sure the tankless heater is not gonna' happen. So, given that, what's a good hot water tank, any opinions on that?

[akajun]

Check with your local plumbing supply store
When I priced them they were only about 2x the cost and you could actually realize the return on energy savings
Local was cheaper than big box

[Electrod47]

4 years ago my propane water heater went out. Ordered through my gas company, just like the first one. It was 700 bucks.

[BLAHUT]

i ordered one through the local electric company, cheaper than the stores

[Mal Paso]

The on demand water heaters can have thousands of dollars in service calls soon after the warranty runs out. Ask what your plumber has, bet it's a tank.

I am having issues with the Honeywell electronic control on a tank heater, wild temperature increases. This is the second replacement so Bradford White Customer Service offered me a mechanical thermostat and I ordered that today.

My choice is a tank water heater with a mechanical thermostat. If you can stay away from the Honeywell/electronic thermostats the water heater may last 30 years.

Those old Unitrol water heater controls were Bulletproof. Honeywell grabbed the market and ran it into the ground.

[Half Dog]

My thought has been that; if it’s leaking replace it quickly. It seems that the fewer gizmos equates to a longer lasting unit.

[Texas by God]

I had a Rinnai installed when our house was built 17 years ago. Other than annual flushing, we had no service calls. Many times both showers, the washer and dishwasher were going simultaneously- no loss of hot water. It got to where it wasn't working right a month ago- so I had it replaced with a current model. It wasn't cheap, but I knew that going in. I'm a fan.

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[Jeff Michel]

If NY requires a power venting on your gas fired water heater, the price goes up a bunch. If you don't plan on selling your house for a while, get an naturally aspirated one. But count on replacing it with one with a power vent when you go to sell. Found that out on a couple houses I sold recently. At 2500 a pop, I lost my sense of humor pretty quick. If selling is in your future within the next five years or so, get an electric. As pointed out in a couple prior posts, your utility company will likely have a deal if you buy or lease an electric water heater from them. Good luck.

[TurnipEaterDown]

Maybe you already know, so if you do then this was just well meant and made not knowing what you know.

Best bet to use the insulated (dielectric) couplers when hooking up a new tank. New water heaters have very small anodes now, and many are replaceable.

8 Years ago in my old house the old water heater (30 something years old) croaked, and I replaced it. I hooked up the new just like the old, and as I had seen many times over the years. Hard coupled, soldered copper to threaded fitting at tank. New one croaked in a year. Got another, and as I was looking for fittings the guy at the plumbing dept said: '...don't forget the dielectric couplers...' at which point I said: 'tell me more'. I used them, water heater was fine when I left the house last year. No corrosion on fittings, no nothing to disappoint.

[edler7]

The venting is the expensive part.

We've had one 3-4 years. Like the endless supply and lower utility bill, but I'm not sure I'd get another.

[TimD]

When my electric water heater died I replaced it with a GE GeoSpring hybrid electric unit. It uses a heat pump primarily but has a traditional heating element backup. There are only two of us in the house and we do not have a high hot water demand. It takes longer to recover, but saved us $50 a month on the electric. I have it set to use only the heat pump, but it can be set use only the electric element, or two hybrid modes. When set to the hybrid high demand mode it recovers quicker than my old electric unit. It has been a good performer for over eight years. I also considered an on demand system, but the local plumbing supply did not recommend them since the well water in our area scales them quickly. In one case a unit needed to be replaced in six months. If you have hard water it may be an issue to consider.

[pworley1]

We put a tankless in when we built our house six years ago. We have had zero problems with it. As others have mentioned the venting on a gas heater is expensive, but if you get the high efficiency model like we did you can vent with schedule 40 instead of the double walled metal pipe. We bought ours through the local building supply for 2/3 the price from Lowes.

[Mal Paso]

Maybe you already know, so if you do then this was just well meant and made not knowing what you know.

Best bet to use the insulated (dielectric) couplers when hooking up a new tank. New water heaters have very small anodes now, and many are replaceable.

8 Years ago in my old house the old water heater (30 something years old) croaked, and I replaced it. I hooked up the new just like the old, and as I had seen many times over the years. Hard coupled, soldered copper to threaded fitting at tank. New one croaked in a year. Got another, and as I was looking for fittings the guy at the plumbing dept said: '...don't forget the dielectric couplers...' at which point I said: 'tell me more'. I used them, water heater was fine when I left the house last year. No corrosion on fittings, no nothing to disappoint.

Dielectric fittings are a waste of money, electricity goes right through the water. So said my uncle, Copper and Brass Assn. 50 years ago. The 16-24 inch copper or stainless flex connector pipes used now have Dielectric Fittings on Both Ends anyway.

Better to get 2 water pipe ground clamps and some 6 gauge bare copper and put a jumper between inlet and outlet pipes. That will neutralize the charge. That's what's required here now.

[Winger Ed.]

Like so many other things- it's a 'get what you pay for' industry.

When I'm trying to figure out something like that, I look at how long they warranty it.
That's usually a good indicator of quality.

[Bird]

It seems that very little manufactured today lasts very long. Our old gas water heater lasted for 30 years and the new replacement made it 4 years before the Honeywell controller went bad. We were supplied with a new controller under warranty.
A friend had a tankless system installed and that lasted about 4 years,. I do not know what brand it was, but he did not realize any savings there.
I figure a water heater is worth the $4 per week it will cost to replace it when it quits working.

[Randy Bohannon]

I wouldn’t have a tank water heater ever again even if you paid me , neighbor put a tankless water in heater 30 years ago, wife three kids later still works like it always has. I put a Rinnai tankless in my house 4 years ago replacing a inefficient tank heater that ate up space in the basement it has been perfect,I have gas stove and boiler heat as well and have never seen a gas bill over $100.00 .

[Scrounge]

I went to the basement to get a can of paint this morning and the floor in front of the hot water tank was wet. It looks like it's leaking from somewhere on the bottom, so I'm assuming this is a terminal situation. I've always told myself that when the tank dies, I'd put in an "on demand" water heater. Checking prices at Lowes and Home Depot have me reconsidering that thought. A new gas-fired water tank starts around $500, a gas-fired tankless heater runs 3X that! Yikes! I'm looking for some advice here, but I'm pretty sure the tankless heater is not gonna' happen. So, given that, what's a good hot water tank, any opinions on that?

I found a smaller one at HD for around $330, just a couple of weeks ago. https://www.homedepot.com/p/EZ-Tankless-202-4-0-GPM-85-000-BTU-Propane-Gas-Portable-Tankless-Water-Heater-EZ202LPG/206712542 isn't the one I was looking at before, but similar. Funny it showed that, as I specified natural gas.

[rancher1913]

tankless heaters can be great-----but it depends on the water quality you have. any hardness and you will need to do loads of upkeep, even with good water they require service regularly. the tank do waste a little money and you dont have an unlimited amount of hot water but they are tried and tested. nobody around here will sell or install tankless because of the water quality, and the fact that they dont want to hassle with getting paid under warranty. some areas of the country they work great, do your research, talk to local plumbers.

[ulav8r]

Installed a tankless electric in Mom's house last fall, same German brand that my daughter has had for about 4 years. Daughter said hers used less electricity than the 80 gallon heater she replaced. Mom went into the rest home, my wife and I have been using her house while we build ours. The electric bill has gone down but we are not here full time.

The heater is a Steibel Eltron, got it from Amazon. The regular price was about $750, ordered an open box for about 1/2 price. The first one I received had severe damage. It was replaced at no cost and the replacement was in perfect condition. The only drawback was that I had to replace the breakers and wiring. The original tank heater had a 30 amp 240V service and the tankless required a 60 amp 240V service. I put a propane fired tankless in the new house before having experience with the Steibel Eltron. This will be the fourth tankless heater in three houses. The first one, about 35 years ago, had to have replacement thermocouples 2 or three times. The second one was a small electric that serviced 1 bathroom in an addition. The third was propane that served for about 10 years with no problems when that house was sold.

[Mal Paso]

Like so many other things- it's a 'get what you pay for' industry.

When I'm trying to figure out something like that, I look at how long they warranty it.
That's usually a good indicator of quality.

With tank water heaters the Big difference between the 6 and 12 year warranty units is the warranty. They figured out how much more the 12 year warranty cost them and charge for that. Sometimes the 12 year will have a second anode but often not. This was common knowledge in the trades.

Water heaters would last longer if people replaced the anode. When that is used up pinholes in the glass lining of steel tank allow the steel to be attacked.

Until the Honeywell thermostat tank heaters were a 30 year product.

[Scrounge]

tankless heaters can be great-----but it depends on the water quality you have. any hardness and you will need to do loads of upkeep, even with good water they require service regularly. the tank do waste a little money and you dont have an unlimited amount of hot water but they are tried and tested. nobody around here will sell or install tankless because of the water quality, and the fact that they dont want to hassle with getting paid under warranty. some areas of the country they work great, do your research, talk to local plumbers.

True that! My 4yo Takagi is dying. We reset it several times a day, babying it along. I need to get my back worked on a bit before I want to replace it. I've gained more than a bit of weight since I installed it.

[MT Gianni]

40 years ago a gas water heater had a standing pilot and a one time over temperature device called an ECU. They vented into a common vent with the furnace. Now they cannot have a pilot unless there is a special waver, congress believes the heat from a pilot is wasted and doesn't heat the water. That requires electricity, so a new gas valve and control systems come into play. The old tanks failed from leakage, the new ones fail because the controls cost more to repair than a new tank does. This retired gas guy with 40+ years in the business went electric from the cost saving of not having a vent when I built.

[waksupi]

If you get a tankless, you need a good water treatment system before it enters the heater. Hard water ruins the elements in short order.

[centershot]

Thanks for your responses guys, I really appreciate it! Several of you mention hard water, I hadn't considered that. We live in a small city of 35,000 and the water is chlorinated. We use a Britta water pitcher so we don't have the chlorine taste in our drinking water but the plumbing is unfiltered. I've pretty much written off the tankless heater at this point. So, gas or electric? Electricity is relatively cheap here, the city generates it's own power from a gas turbine plant and sells/buys power to/from National Grid. If you live outside of town and have to buy from NG, it is EXPENSIVE! In the city, it's attractive to consider an electric water heater. Any pro's/cons on that thought?

[Brassmonkey]

I helped my friend install a rinnai tankless three years ago he bought it used lol, other than repairing it initially as it had a bad over temp sensor, he's had no issues.

If you stick with a tank unit be sure to flush it every year and replace the anodes regularly for a long life.

[MaryB]

Look at temperature rise vs your ground water temp... I like HOT water, not barely above body temp... ground water here in winter is 45f ... summer it hits ~55f.

[downzero]

A tankless heater is worth every penny. They're a pain to install though, you're going to have to replumb the water to come out the bottom instead of the top, and you're probably going to need both an air intake and exhaust.

[Mal Paso]

Thanks for your responses guys, I really appreciate it! Several of you mention hard water, I hadn't considered that. We live in a small city of 35,000 and the water is chlorinated. We use a Britta water pitcher so we don't have the chlorine taste in our drinking water but the plumbing is unfiltered. I've pretty much written off the tankless heater at this point. So, gas or electric? Electricity is relatively cheap here, the city generates it's own power from a gas turbine plant and sells/buys power to/from National Grid. If you live outside of town and have to buy from NG, it is EXPENSIVE! In the city, it's attractive to consider an electric water heater. Any pro's/cons on that thought?

No Brainer! Electric Tank Water Heater is the least expensive to buy if your electric cost is low. If you have hard water spend an extra $35 and buy 2 Low Watt Density Heating Elements and replace the short factory ones before you hook it up. You will have less mineral build up inside the WH. Takes a 1 1/2" socket.

If you had a 40 gallon gas you'll want a 50 gallon electric, recovery is slower.

There are no electric demand heaters practically speaking. It would require too much electricity.

[Bmi48219]

Water on the floor around the WH doesn’t necessarily mean a leaking tank. I’ve seen element seals start leaking from age.
Don’t know about now but Gas fired tank style water heaters used to heat the tank bottom, making it real important to drain and flush the tank. Sediment buildup on the bottom acts as a barrier to heat transferring to the water. Also causes bottom of tank to rot out faster.
IMO electric tank heater is the best value for the $$. Only Two thermostats and two elements to go bad that can be easily diagnosed and replaced by most any somewhat handy guy.
No exhaust flue required, no CO gas worries. No pilotless ignition to fail. No computerized burner control box to fail.
We bought a house in 1990 that was built in 1967. It had the original A O Smith electric 85 gallon heater. We sold that house in 2002 with the heater still working. I had to replace the element seals and the upper thermostat. Raised two daughters and never ran out of hot water.

[Handloader109]

My WH is in basement and with no vent, is electric. We have plenty of hot water. Daughter's new home we installed an electric. We have no gas close and propane isn't a real option in KY opinion. We went with big box model as things were difficult last year to find. Got the cheaper mechanical NOT the newer electronic controls. WaY too many bad reviews of very short life and failures of the smart controls. Your power company may have a model that you can get at good price

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[Rapidrob]

I just replaced my hot water heater three weeks ago. Be glad you have natural gas and not propane like mine. The "Green New Deal" has added a 200 dollar charge over the 500 dollar normal price.
If you have hard water, do not buy a demand instant hot water heater.

[Randy Bohannon]

I had not considered the hard water issue as it’s not a issue here , by all means don’t go the demand HW . I would do gas over electric just for the recovery time.

[Brassmonkey]

Some thing I think that would benefit tankless water heaters and tanked units as well is a pre heater holding tank where the water could acclimate to the temperature before its heated.

[Bmi48219]

Some thing I think that would benefit tankless water heaters and tanked units as well is a pre heater holding tank where the water could acclimate to the temperature before its heated.

Yes and no. First there’s the cost of adding a dedicated tempering tank to the hot water system. Then the fact every time hot water is drawn from the heater, water is drawn from the tempering tank and cold water enters the tank. The more hot water used the colder the tempering tank water becomes. Plus in heating season the tank full of cold water will wick heat from the home air. Anytime you raise water temperature you use BTUs. Not a lot but enough to make your furnace run more. Then there’s the condensate on the tank to deal with, year round.
We’re on municipal water which comes into the house at 75 or 80 degrees. Our Electric tank WH is in the garage which is usually around 80 degrees. So we’re only need to heat water another 40 Degrees to 120 F. We make out on hot water but cooling the house is another matter.

One thing that’s weird is that there are two capped 1/2” rigid copper lines, protruding from the drywall, one above and one near the bottom of our WH. I was told they were for tapping exhaust heat from the A/C condenser to help heat our water. I am guessing the idea was to route WH fill water through a coil installed in the A/C condenser, preheating the fill water; but it doesn’t appear the system was ever completely installed.
I did install a mechanical timer on the W/H power leads. We don’t heat water from 10 pm until 6 am. That cuts our electric bill $10-$15 / month.

[samari46]

Most plumbers use old fashioned gate valves for the shut off on the hot and cold water legs. Unfortuneatly sediment gets under where the gate seals off the water. And you sometimes cannot get a good shut off. I used 3/4" ball valves and cycle the valves once a month. They always seal. Used to work in a tank farm so found about the gall valves. A lot of the gate valves sold here are made in China. Frank