home repair question

[Battis]

130 yr old house. An 8 ft section of the sill (sits on top of foundation) is rotted and has to be replaced. I know I have to jack it up while I replace the sill. Can it be jacked from the basement or does it have to be jacked from the outsisde?

[crandall crank]

It's possible to do from the basement. You can use a small steel beam to span the joists. Be sure to use two jacks (one at each end of the beam). Go slow and make sure everything stays vertical. You don't want the lifting posts to "kick out"...that wouldn't be good

[Battis]

I'm waiting for a call from the mason/contractor that I use but I'm thinking that everyone's booked out quite aways. Two or three of the wall studs that come down to the sill are rotted on the bottom. Once I get the sill replaced, can these studs be "sistered" with new studs? The interior wall is horsehair plaster that's in good shape.

[contender1]

As noted, steel "I" beam, (2) or even (3) jacks. Go SLOW.
And it's possible to sister together studs,, if you have enough good wood to tie them together.

And once you get it fixed,, I'd consider leaving the steel I beam in place, and ADD support foundation to the beam.

But,,, when all else fails,, having a pro look at it is the best way to get a good idea of what needs to be done & how to do it correctly.

[country gent]

I would recommend screw jacks to raise it up and then lower onto solid posts while working under it. A jack can fail, a post and solid blocking is safer. I have watched them jack up buildings to move them and they used the screw jacks with stacks of blocking as soon as there was room a block was inserted in the stack. When up to height they put most of the load on the blocking not the jacks.

Another thing to check is the footer boards thickness that old thy are probably a full 2" or more even not the 1 1/2" sold today. You may have to build up or have custom cut.

[Battis]

Still wrapping my head around this project. With screw jacks, isn't all the weight on the threads?

[Scrounge]

Still wrapping my head around this project. With screw jacks, isn't all the weight on the threads?

Yes, but threads are pretty strong. Most bolts and other threaded objects that break do so in sheer, not tension or compression. Which is why you use more than one jack, and they are rated for the load you're trying to lift. You don't want side-loads, and you don't want under-rated lifting gear.

https://www.tksimplex.com/en-sx/mechanical-jacks/SX-US-Jacks-Screw#v

Bill

[Battis]

I gave it a good look from inside and out. The floor joists in the basement run parallel to the rotted sill. The next joist over is only 6" away, so this rotted sill (rotted on the outside - that part in the basement is solid) basically supports the wall studs, not any of the floor. I know there's alot of weight on it still...

[Bmi48219]

Take the time now to think this project through. Plenty of online tutorials out there.
Is your 130 YO home on a field stone, cut stone or brick basement/ foundation? Or was the home moved at some point? CMUs and pour walls weren’t common back then. Don’t know about your area but often older houses had basements that were in essence deep crawl spaces. If your basement walls are stepped back a few feet above the floor, the basement was probably deepened some time after the house was built.
Is basement floor concrete? You can jack or support from the inside provided you have solid base for jacks/posts. If not sure of floor use 12” x 12” x 2” pad stacks, alternating wood grain 90 degrees for bases. If the floor joists and wall studs are sound and solidly connected you can lift joists to raise the wall. If lower end of studs are rotten you’ll have to attach solid lifting surfaces, like 2” x 8” girts to inside and outside of studs above the rot line to push the wall up. Don’t want the wall to bow when you start lifting.
Bear in mind 130 years ago ‘ballon construction’ was common.
Whether you decide to do this work yourself or hire someone, keep in mind 130 years ago there weren’t a lot of home building companies, codes or inspectors. You’ll probably run into unforeseen issues. Were I in your shoes I’d be looking at why the plate rotted and are there any issues with the foundation integrity that could bite me later, like warped widow and door frames that indicate foundation issues.
Lastly, get estimates on the repair costs even if you plan to do it yourself. May as well know what you’re getting into.

[Hannibal]

Years ago I did the same thing on a 2 story house of about the same age. It had no basement so I used an oak 4x4 and screw jacks to span the ceiling joists. Raised it up, cut the rotten wall studs off square, cut a piece to fit the gap and married it together with a longer partial stud and screws on one side after replacing the sill. Once finished I set it back down on the foundation and replaced the first floor joists and floor decking. That was over 30 years ago and the house is still lived in. I was a 24 yo who just looked it over and got busy. It ain't rocket science but it's a mess and a lot of hard work.

[Battis]

The foundation is rock on the inside, brick on the outside. It's over 6' in height in the basement. There's an old coal chute door so I don't think the house was ever raised. The house right next door was built by the same builder, in the same year (1892), and are (or were) identical room for room. That house still has the slate roof.
I'm pretty sure it's "balloon construction.
I've been checking it out thoroughly. The sill that needs work is 6" wide, and only about 2" is rotted (on the outside). The other four inches are fine. All that's resting on the rotted part is the outer edge of the wall studs. The backs of the wall studs rest on the good, solid sill. I really don't see how I'd jack or raise anything - the next floor joist in the basement is only 6" away and raising that won't move the sill with the rot - they're parallel.
I'm waiting to hear from two contractors. I'm thinking that I could cut away the bad 2" of rot (which wouldn't change or move anything) and replace that section with a PT 2x4 for the rest of the wall studs to rest on.

[Bmi48219]

I gave it a good look from inside and out. The floor joists in the basement run parallel to the rotted sill. The next joist over is only 6" away, so this rotted sill (rotted on the outside - that part in the basement is solid) basically supports the wall studs, not any of the floor. I know there's alot of weight on it still...

If you can see the outside edge of the sill plate the wall exterior is sided so you can attach a lifting beam from the outside. The floor joists are parallel to the sill plate. What is nailed to the inside face of the studs that supports the edge of the subfloor along this section of wall?
The outboard end of the subfloor has to be sitting on / attached to a piece of lumber nailed to the inside face of the studs. It may not be suitable for a lifting surface but it has to be there. Lifting the stud wall from the outside will lift the edge of the floor that contacts the stud wall.
If you have to replace the sill plate and rotten bottoms of studs you have to attach a lifting point that will both lift the wall and keep it from bowing in or out while you raise the wall to do the repairs. Maybe an angle iron or channel iron 8-10’ long screwed to studs from the outside of wall. Keep in mind if your jacks or lifting devices are too close to the wall you’ll have a hard time accessing the work from outside. Also if you’re lifting a wall that’s parallel but not attached to the joists you only want to lift enough to get the sill plate cut loose and slid out because the edge of the subfloor will be lifted too.

[Bmi48219]

The foundation is rock on the inside, brick on the outside. It's over 6' in height in the basement. There's an old coal chute door so I don't think the house was ever raised. The house right next door was built by the same builder, in the same year (1892), and are (or were) identical room for room. That house still has the slate roof.
I'm pretty sure it's "balloon construction.
I've been checking it out thoroughly. The sill that needs work is 6" wide, and only about 2" is rotted (on the outside). The other four inches are fine. All that's resting on the rotted part is the outer edge of the wall studs. The backs of the wall studs rest on the good, solid sill. I really don't see how I'd jack or raise anything - the next floor joist in the basement is only 6" away and raising that won't move the sill with the rot - they're parallel.
I'm waiting to hear from two contractors. I'm thinking that I could cut away the bad 2" of rot (which wouldn't change or move anything) and replace that section with a PT 2x4 for the rest of the wall studs to rest on.

I think you’re far better off going this way^^^

[pworley1]

You will want to be sure that the basement floor will support the jacks.

[BLAHUT]

get a structural engineer in to look at what you have?
then you will have a good idea of what you will need to do ??

[waksupi]

If you have Amish in your area, ask them for a quote. They do good work.

[Battis]

I definitely will have someone look at it before I do anything. As I said, the sill is 6" from the next floor joist, running parallel to each other. If I jack that joist, I don't see how the sill will rise. Attaching a lifting point makes sense.
I checked the floors inside - still level and solid. Nothing has moved. I'm thinking that the sill has been damaged for some time.
The house heads east for 45', then a sharp right for 8', then left for 20' (kitchen at back of house). So, the 8' section with the bad sill is not the back of the house.

Quakers, Mennonites not too far away, but no Amish.

[Bmi48219]

Jacking the wall isn’t likely to raise the sill. You’re just trying to get the weight off the sill so you can get a saws-all blade under and above it to cut it loose, (the studs will be toenailed into it) drift it out and get a new one in. Your old sill is bound to be thicker than new one so you’d have to use a rough cut board or a strip of plastic to make up the difference. If you need a thicker piece of wood for a new sill a strip of laminated scaffold plank may be thick enough. Pretty price too.

Pretty sure you’ll have to remove a piece of siding too. But that would give you room to scab some good 2x4s onto any punky stud ends.
It adds up to a lot of work. And may turn into more when you start opening it up.

We’re it me I’d try pushing a long finishing nail into the face of the sill to determine how far back it’s bad. If only an inch or inch and a half is bad, chisel it out. You can rip a strip off a PT 2x4 wide enough to match the thickness of the old sill. A snug fit, butter it up with carpenter-in-a-tube (construction adhesive), drive it in and nail it.

That sill isn’t there for strength, just a level surface to build on. Nothing says you have to replace it with one long piece.

[BLAHUT]

get hold of the Mennonites? see what they can do for you? they do good work.

[warren5421]

If you need rough cut lumber look on Crage's List for "Lumber" You may be able to get the thickness you need. White Oak would be best.

[Bloodman14]

Have a similar situation on a house built in 1987!!! Watching with great interest!!

[ascast]

Battis - I have done several of these lifts for houses, barns, garages. It's no big deal. A couple pointers:
1) do not assume your local Amish will do you right. Some of them in the community are geniuses with wood, some could not make firewood. Most are farmers first. Ask around get refs from the English, I have seen some horrendous work......
2) you may have a codes issue to deal with. generally adding wood is OK but do not remove anything. It then becomes replacement. Permits are cheap enough, but they may make you get a real Engineer. $$$

I would lift from the outside of possible-no codes guys watching LOL- I have spiked 2x10" to the side of the house to provide a beam to lift. This can be 6" or 6 feet up, what ever works best. I use hydraulic jacks as they are fast and incredible powerful. Use several, 10 ton should work but 20 will surely get it. Lift one a half inch, then follow up with the next. Have screw jack columes in places and catch them up every 2" or so. You don't need to lift any more than really needed as your horsehair plaster will start to stress and fall off. Have lots of cribing on hand. hope that helps a little

[Battis]

I removed the clapboards and insulation up to the base of the window on that side. The rotted wood only goes in 2-3 inches of the 6" beam. I think I will just cut the rot out and reinforce it with a new piece of wood bolted into the sill. There's a coal chute door under the window - I put a brace from the concrete base in the chute to the cross stud under the window. I'm still waiting for contractors to call me back, but it might be a simple fix.
Thanks for all the responses.

[DocSavage]

My house is 175 yrs old10 years ago we had the first floor rehab for handicap access for my wife. The floor was in serious need of leveling,contractor used 2 screw jacks and a steel beam to lift the floor then they sistered the joists back to the sill then used Lally columns to support the steel beam. Field stone foundation btw.

[ulav8r]

The rot can continue up to 2 feet into solid wood. Treat the wood to KILL the rot.

[john.k]

Also look into the possibility of epoxy impregnating deteroriated wood...this is an accepted way of repairing old structures.

[Plate plinker]

It’s not rocket science. Router to remove 2” of rot if you can set the router up. A set of good sharp chisels is a good idea. Bed in some treated wood.
Second cut off rotted studs if it’s just 3” of rot and lay two treated 2x(6) or whatever cut to the correct width the length of four feet or whatever and button it up. This is a simple repair.
I have jacked lots of buildings up. Don’t mess with that unless necessary. It’s always a bit hair raising. Did a AMISH BUILT barn last year. Crap work, they have lots of shoddy workers like every other group.

[Battis]

I've used West Systems epoxy alot over the years, mostly on boat repairs. I'll use some on the good wood once the rot is gone.
The previous owner of the house took out a load bearing interior wall to open up a room and didn't support above for two weeks, then they used 2x4s. When I bought the house, the upstairs was like a trampoline. That was the only time I used a house jack, and ended up having a contractor do the work the right way.
My wife and I met some Mennonites at a farmer's market this summer. They were, hands down, the nicest people I've ever met. Not fake nice, but truly good people.

[samari46]

I had mine done from the inside by the contractor. Jacked it up, made two cuts with a demolition blade in a reciprocating saw. and only two nails from the rough cut 2x4's and managed to pry it out and in went the new pressure treated sill plate. I redid the old stucco outside coating and black jacked the area. Frank

[MaryB]

The foundation is rock on the inside, brick on the outside. It's over 6' in height in the basement. There's an old coal chute door so I don't think the house was ever raised. The house right next door was built by the same builder, in the same year (1892), and are (or were) identical room for room. That house still has the slate roof.
I'm pretty sure it's "balloon construction.
I've been checking it out thoroughly. The sill that needs work is 6" wide, and only about 2" is rotted (on the outside). The other four inches are fine. All that's resting on the rotted part is the outer edge of the wall studs. The backs of the wall studs rest on the good, solid sill. I really don't see how I'd jack or raise anything - the next floor joist in the basement is only 6" away and raising that won't move the sill with the rot - they're parallel.
I'm waiting to hear from two contractors. I'm thinking that I could cut away the bad 2" of rot (which wouldn't change or move anything) and replace that section with a PT 2x4 for the rest of the wall studs to rest on.

They make an "epoxy" that you mix and work into the rotted wood and it makes it as strong as the existing wood. Saw it years ago on This Old House... in a case like yours where most of the timber is good it is a good option over replacing it. Sister in new pressure treated studs with as much overlap as possible and use a LOT of glue and fasteners to hold them together because those fasteners will be in shear...

[jonp]

Still wrapping my head around this project. With screw jacks, isn't all the weight on the threads?

I used an 8x8 and two screw jacks to hold the corner of a 2 story house when i poured a new footing and built the block wall. Just make sure to lift a little then let set then a little more to let the house adjust.
Floor jacks like these https://www.amazon.com/Adjustable-Floor-Jack-Post-Gauge/dp/B00D1W5IRO. More than strong enough and i keep a couple on hand.
One house i used a wood bean, metal plate and 2 bottle jacks with no problem.
BTW as others have noted, cut past the rot.
Dont over think this. Ive done this multiple times and the hardest part is to get started.

[Battis]

The contractor/mason called as I was working on the project. He said that he'd do the repair the same as I was doing. Basically, I cut the rotted wood, about 3" out, leaving another 3" that was fine (Sawzall, small chainsaw, chisels - couldn't find any hand grenades), sanded the good wood flush (16 grit disc on a 7" sander), then fit a 4x4 PT board. Almost a perfect fit. I used 7" carriage bolts to join the new and old wood, with plenty of construction adhesive in between. I'm sistering in new wall studs (5 total). Nothing moved up or down, the plaster is fine inside. No jacking.
If I got paid by the hour, I would have made approx. $490,000. I am slow. And I'm not done.