Are all of these .223 brass crimped primer pockets?

[Stopsign32v]

Got a large batch of range pickup a while back and was wanting to sort my true once fired for some precision handloads. But being somewhat new at rifle brass and .223 I want to understand what I'm looking at when it comes to the primer pocket.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52351503484_978ca539cc_b.jpg (https://www.flickr.com/gp/113193676@N08/1Xd809y104)

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52350229622_f9669311c9_b.jpg (https://www.flickr.com/gp/113193676@N08/ae6222vJi0)

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52351425213_25e492f2d3_b.jpg (https://www.flickr.com/gp/113193676@N08/k9a101g870)

[Winger Ed.]

Yep.

Any brass that doesn't have the common manufacturer's head stamp like say, a .30-30 or .243--
count on it being made to, or for GI specs. and have a crimped in primer.

Several of yours look like reloads that have already been processed to remove the crimp.
The ones with paint have not.

[Hannibal]

I only see one that doesn't appear to have a crimped primer to me but it also appears that a couple of those *might* have been reloaded before but it's hard to tell.

The one with the headstamp R P 223 Rem does not appear crimped to me but that's no guarantee.

[Tripplebeards]

Yep, only the 223 RP case is not crimped. I bought a Dillion super swage a few years back. What a process. I luckily bought a 1000 virgin LC cases since I have put aside for when SHTF so don’t have to swage anymore. It’s a good tool to have laying around though. Seems 99% of range pick up 5.56 and 223 are crimped. I have zip lock bags full.

[shell70634]

It's safer to assume they are all crimped and process accordingly. Then you can manage the brass for yourself. Also check for berdan. Have extra decap pins on hand.

[Dave W.]

To me, it looks like only three are crimped, the two with red around the primer, the heads are stamped 5.56.
The other one is stamped TZZ 20 88.

[trails4u]

To me, it looks like only three are crimped, the two with red around the primer, the heads are stamped 5.56.
The other one is stamped TZZ 20 88.

I agree with this.....some of the others may have been crimped in the past but they've been removed.

[45DUDE]

I find it easier to own a Dillon super swedge. I swedge all the 223 I pick up before I add to the stash. I don't pick up 223 anymore unless there's a hundred or so from the same gun. saves trimming.

[BLAHUT]

THINK ALL ARE CRIMPED AND PREP AS SUCH. I BOUGHT A Dillon swedge TREAT ALL AS SUCH UNTILL I KNOW?

[JimB..]

I’ll go another direction, throw all that crap in the bucket for making plinking ammo and go find yourself some once fired, or new, single headstamp brass for precision. That game is about eliminating variables, you’re starting with a million variables and hoping to reduce them through brass prep, better to eliminate them from the start.

[Stopsign32v]

go find yourself some once fired, or new, single headstamp brass for precision.

Any advice on where to find that? And what do you mean single headstamp brass?

[Hannibal]

If you check in the swappin' and sellin' area here or other forums you can find once fired brass most times. Finding new brass can be hit or miss but seems to be getting a bit better though some prices are still elevated. Best just to check web sites to see if it's in stock and order online for me. Watch out for smokin' deals and any place that won't take a credit card, probably a scam. Single headstamp means all stamped the same so the same manufacturer. Not necessarily from the same lot but still better than multiple stamps/manufacturers like what you have pictured. I use mixed lots of brass like that in my AR at a somewhat reduced load for occasions when brass retrieval would be difficult and accuracy isn't a big concern. Hope this helps.

Edit to add - if you buy used brass make sure it doesn't have crimped pockets. Usually it will not if it's stamped .223 AND it's stamped either RP. Win or FC which are Remington, Winchester and Federal. Make sure you ask the seller before purchasing and if the seller doesn't know then don't buy it.

[trails4u]

Stopsign32v... What's your plan and where in SC are you? Are you looking to make target grade stuff or just plinking stuff? PM me...maybe we're close and maybe I can help you?

[Ford SD]

the only 223 brass that I have NOT seen crimped is RP ( remington )

If you have range/ buy range pick ups, Just Put on your glasses and sort by headstamp

then do your reg Once fired brass prep on your different lots of brass .... then fix the primer pockets..

its then done

All 3 dot brass wil have crimped Primers

Fed might or might not

Win might or might not

RP Good to go and as a plus has a nice chamfer on the primer pocket edge


and some of that brass will be heaver or lighter than some other brass

[JimB..]

Any advice on where to find that? And what do you mean single headstamp brass?

I’ll help you get started, send me a pm with a mailing address.

[Three44s]

You have non-crimped, previously crimped and still crimped cases.

The two cases with the red primer sealer are crimped without a doubt.

The case with the “88” stamped on it may still be crimped but I am not sure.

As you deprime, the crimped primers will offer more resistance and often the primer punch will distort the cup because of the added resistance required due to the crimp.

If you catch each primer in question as you deprime them you can get a better idea on identifying the crimped from the non-crimped.

Three44s

[bedbugbilly]

You mention good handholds - what are you using it in?

I went thru the same thing you are experiencing - "frustration land". I'm not an AR person, but shot a friend
s and fell in love with the 223 cartridge and bought a bolt action for target and fun. 223 brass seemed to be everywhere - just had to bend over and pick it up. Hah!

Mixed headstamps, how many times fired?, crimped and un-crimped primers and a wide variety of case lengths - so . . . added a primer pocket swaging die, case length trimmer and after processing about 500 +, began to ask myself if it was really worth it time-wise for the type of shooting I wanted to do?

I ordered 500 223 casings from Starline and never picked up another piece of 223 range brass - and for the shooting I do with my bolt rifle - it saves a world of frustration.

Sage advice to sort by headstamps and then process, etc. A lot of guys enjoy processing it - and lf you are shooting a lot of it up in an AR or similar, I certainly understand the "why" of doing it.

I load a number of different rifle bottleneck calibers as well as pistol . . . . but I have never gotten frustrated like I have with the 223 - not the actual loading process - I love that p but because of the urge we all have to save some $$ and use range pick-ups - especially a cartridge that has such a high % of military brass with crimped primers.

Hang in there Stopsign - you'll get it figured out. It is a neat and fun cartridge and the nice thing is that there are so many on here familiar with it - especially the processing of the brass, that a person can get answers to things that pop up.

Almost forgot . . . the one thing I found to be really helpful to have when I did proceed the range brass was a slide in cartridge gauge to check the processed casing. Every once in a while I would encounter one that the base was enough oversize that it would not pass the gauge . . . those went into the scrap can.

Good luck and have fun.

[lar45]

I bought the Dillon Super Swage tool years ago and really like it. Once you get it set up, it goes pretty quick.

[pertnear]

I’ll go another direction, throw all that crap in the bucket for making plinking ammo and go find yourself some once fired, or new, single headstamp brass for precision. That game is about eliminating variables, you’re starting with a million variables and hoping to reduce them through brass prep, better to eliminate them from the start.

^^^^ This ^^^^

For range brass, I decap & run ALL of it through a crimp swager & put it in a separate marked container.

[MUSTANG]

ALL Rifle Brass I pick up or am given (No matter Military, Commercial, Foreign head stamps) receive an initial preparation of:

(1) Deprime with Lee Deprimer Die.
(2) Swage ALL primer pockets with either the Dillon or RCBS Primer Pocket Swage.
(3) Use RCBS Deburring Tool to slightly relieve the edges of the Primer Pocket to improve ability to seat primers.
(4) Full Length Case Resizing.
(5) Trim cases to Factory Spec (I use Lee Trimmers/Lyman Trimmers/WFT Trimmers).
(6) Use RCBS Deburring Tool to slightly relieve the inside and outside of the Brass Neck (particularly for cast boolits).
(7) Segregate Brass into Plastic Tubs/Containers/Boxes with Labels to ensure that unprocessed Brass is not used.

This allows me to always have a good selection of "Properly Prepped" brass when I decide to reload. Range Pickups can be all over the place when "Prep Status" is considered. I also NEVER Mix my prepped brass I shoot at the Range with Range Pick Ups. That way I can dump Range Brass into a Big bucket for caliber and other sorting at a later date before "Initial Case Preparation" occurs when the bucket begins to get full.

[lightman]

Just looking at your pictures I will say that the 2 cases with the red dye on them are crimped. The RP case is not crimped. The silver primer on the TW73 case makes me think that its been reloaded and the remaining cases are hard to tell but probably are crimped. I have had loose primer pockets on cases with the CJ headstamp so pay close attention to them.

Mixed range brass vs new brass? So what are your goals with this brass? One of my 223 bolt rifles will shoot 5/8-3/4 in groups with mixed range brass loaded on a Dillon 550 with Sierra Blitzkings. Carefully prepped Lapua brass will shoot 1/8th in tighter.

Crimped primer pockets can be a pain! I have not found one tool that works perfectly everytime. I've used both the Dillon and RCBS swaggers, all kinds of reamers (RCBS, Lyman, Hornady, Wilson), countersink tools, ect and have been happier with the Wilson tool. It seems to be made with better steel.

[Stopsign32v]

You mention good handholds - what are you using it in?

I went thru the same thing you are experiencing - "frustration land". I'm not an AR person, but shot a friend
s and fell in love with the 223 cartridge and bought a bolt action for target and fun. 223 brass seemed to be everywhere - just had to bend over and pick it up. Hah!

Mixed headstamps, how many times fired?, crimped and un-crimped primers and a wide variety of case lengths - so . . . added a primer pocket swaging die, case length trimmer and after processing about 500 +, began to ask myself if it was really worth it time-wise for the type of shooting I wanted to do?

I ordered 500 223 casings from Starline and never picked up another piece of 223 range brass - and for the shooting I do with my bolt rifle - it saves a world of frustration.

Sage advice to sort by headstamps and then process, etc. A lot of guys enjoy processing it - and lf you are shooting a lot of it up in an AR or similar, I certainly understand the "why" of doing it.

I load a number of different rifle bottleneck calibers as well as pistol . . . . but I have never gotten frustrated like I have with the 223 - not the actual loading process - I love that p but because of the urge we all have to save some $$ and use range pick-ups - especially a cartridge that has such a high % of military brass with crimped primers.

Hang in there Stopsign - you'll get it figured out. It is a neat and fun cartridge and the nice thing is that there are so many on here familiar with it - especially the processing of the brass, that a person can get answers to things that pop up.

Almost forgot . . . the one thing I found to be really helpful to have when I did proceed the range brass was a slide in cartridge gauge to check the processed casing. Every once in a while I would encounter one that the base was enough oversize that it would not pass the gauge . . . those went into the scrap can.

Good luck and have fun.

It's going to be in a AR15 and I want to start doing load data like Johnny's Reloading Bench on youtube. Trying to figure out where I should start reloading wise.

[gwpercle]

A crimped in primer = once fired ... never been reloaded !

All the rest ... Who knows .

If you really want to do it right ... buy a lot of military cases with crimped in primers .
But better yet is a lot of Brand New StarLine cases ...never been fired and will be shot in your rifle and no stinking crimped in primers to worry with !
They are worth every penny you pay !
Gary

[S.B.]

I've had little problems removing the crimps from military rifle brass if the proper tool is available? Also, military brass has held up well for me I think a little thicker?
Steve

[hatt]

I bought the Dillon Super Swage tool years ago and really like it. Once you get it set up, it goes pretty quick.

I have the similar concept RCBS. I don't even look at range pickup .223/5.56 these days. Just run everything through.

[VariableRecall]

Unless you've reloaded the brass before and un-crimped the primer, just assume that the brass is crimped. With primer availibility these days you can't afford to crush a bunch of primers beyond use due to an improper fit.

I don't have the fancy RCBS or dillion swaging equipment, but I use the Lyman Case Prep tool, which has a pocket cleaner and reamer attachment.

As far as I've experienced it, .223 Remington brass from PMC have always lacked primer crimps. It may be a bit of sample bias, but that's the only headstamp I've had that I can trust to not be crimped so far.

[higgins]

I refrain from saying "always" or "never" pertaining to almost any aspect of ammunition, particularly military or paramilitary ammo. Add to that what's loaded for specialty contracts or custom loadings and you could find crimped primers in just about any headstamp .223 brass. Some of the crimps are so light you might need a magnifying glass to see them. I have looked at many thousands of 5.56 and 223 headstamped brass and I have found that there are some generalities, but to be certain individual inspection is needed. In addition to the U.S. commercial .223 that is typically not crimped I have also recently come across PMC and Fiocchi (GFL) .223 that is not crimped; the Fiocci may be U.S.-made brass. It's mostly a matter of experience.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Got a large batch of range pickup a while back and was wanting to sort my true once fired for some precision handloads. But being somewhat new at rifle brass and .223 I want to understand what I'm looking at when it comes to the primer pocket.

If I was making precision handloads for rifle, I'd want cases with matching HS, and preferably to be from same Lot.

When loading for rifle, I want to take as many of the 'unknowns' out of the process. One thing about loading mixed brand cases, is when you pull the lever of the press, each case brand may have a different feel. I want each pull of the lever to feel the same, when it doesn't and I am using all the same brand cases, I automatically know something is wrong. If I were to use mixed brands, I will not know if something is wrong when the "feel" is different.

[Winger Ed.]

Trying to figure out where I should start reloading wise.

I have good luck with .223 target ammo at about 80-or so percent of the max listing for a given powder.
I've tried a bunch, but Winchester 748 is what I keep coming back to.

[Hannibal]

I have good luck with .223 target ammo at about 80-or so percent of the max listing for a given powder.
I've tried a bunch, but Winchester 748 is what I keep coming back to.

I like 748 also. Meters so consistently I never have to worry about checking charge weights and I've noticed the barrel/brass isn't as hot as with say, Varget. Accuracy is good also and it doesn't foul much. Lots to like.

[David2011]

One other thing that I didn’t see mentioned was that in the first picture there iare only two pieces of .223 brass. The remainder is 5.56 brass which is military. I assume if I have unprocessed 5.56 that the primers are crimped. I don’t recall seeing any commercial .223 with crimped primer pockets.

The 5.56 you have has very typical headstamps. Commercial .223 will be marked 223 REM along with the manufacturer’s name or initials. Military 5.56 may have “5.56” on the headstamp but not all does. Most American made 5.56 will have a two letter armory code and a two digit year code.

Once it’s processed there is little difference between 5.56 and .223 brass. The general assumption is that 5.56 is thicker but comparing it to commercial brass by weight reveals that it can be heavier or lighter than commercial.

If you want to develop more accurate loads, buy new commercial brass from a name brand manufacturer in a single lot of 250 or 500 pieces, if you can find it. With the right charge and a good bullet like a Sierra Match King or a Hornady V-Max my good AR-15 will shoot well under 1/2” at 100 yards and 3/4” at 200 with mixed commercial brass. If you can’t find a batch of brass from a single lot, try weighing your brass and select enough that is very close in weight after it’s been sized and trimmed. That would at least give you something to work with immediately.

[Mal Paso]

Psst .... Starline is taking orders for Rem 223 now. They weren't a week ago so jump on it if you need it.

[Hannibal]

Psst .... Starline is taking orders for Rem 223 now. They weren't a week ago so jump on it if you need it.

Thanks for the tip! I just ordered some. Starline is good brass. I've ordered it for years and I'm really glad they added bottleneck cartridges to their line.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I assume if I have unprocessed 5.56 that the primers are crimped. I don’t recall seeing any commercial .223 with crimped primer pockets.

SNIP>>>

That is typically what I've found also.
BUT,
I do have a large batch of WOLF brand fired brass cases (recovered from a police shoot) that has crimped primers and the HS is "223 REM WOLF"

[Mal Paso]

My Starline "backorder" shipped in 3 days. It arrived today. I'll be loading ammo tonight.

I had to send a batch of "processed once fired" back due to crimps not fully removed. I have the RCBS tool but it isn't up to putting the bevel back. Primers would catch on the ridge ring and go sideways or crooked. The Dillon tool has a raised ring that puts the bevel back, it's on the list.

Meanwhile Starline!

[Hannibal]

My Starline "backorder" shipped in 3 days. It arrived today. I'll be loading ammo tonight.

I had to send a batch of "processed once fired" back due to crimps not fully removed. I have the RCBS tool but it isn't up to putting the bevel back. Primers would catch on the ridge ring and go sideways or crooked. The Dillon tool has a raised ring that puts the bevel back, it's on the list.

Meanwhile Starline!

Mine was waiting for me when I got home yesterday. Very happy with both the delivery time and the quality.

Also I've had good luck using a chamfering tool on primer pocket edges but it sounds like you've already got a plan to deal with that. I'm not a high volume shooter and don't get to the range nearly as often as I'd like so I don't mind doing things slowly.

[Mal Paso]

The "processed once fired" was $.20 each and Starline was $.24 Brand New. Had it been a better deal I would have kept the "processed once fired" and bought the Dillon tool. I still have some range pickup and some brass my gunsmith gave me to get started so I'll get the tool but the pressure is off now.

Starline was unavailable when I ordered the "processed once fired". Starline 223 has been unavailable for months so if you need some, jump on it!

[rbuck351]

My wife bought me a Rem 700 V in 1974 and I have been scrounging brass since then. I worked for Alaska Corrections for twenty years and we used Federal Gold Metal ammo in our Colt AR 15s and Rem ball ammo for training. I ended up with a couple of 5 gal buckets of once fired brass here and have picked up several more buckets of misc brands of crimped and non crimped brass. Now I just load the Rem brass as all I have is non crimped and I have more than I will ever use. Although I don't need to remove crimps, I do run a Sinclair primer pocket reamer in them to uniform the depth and sharpen the bottom edges of the pocket.

Of the empties you show, the only ones you can be sure are once fired are the crimped ones that are still crimped. The only ones I can be sure were not ever crimped are the R-P cases. Are they once fired? I don't know.

[dverna]

I have bolt guns and AR's in .223/5.56.

For the bolt guns, I use commercial brass with one HS. or once fired LC that has been prepped properly. For the AR's, I use whatever is cheap. Most of the cheap brass has crimped primers and the Dillon tool handle that job well. I have a brass that cost $70-85/k or I got free. It is worth the effort to process IMO.

You got good advice about using a known and consistent case for accuracy loads.

[David2011]

What is “once fired brass?” To me that means it’s been fired exactly one time. USReloadingSupply.com claims that it’s an industry term “to loosely describe used brass reloading cases.” They go on to say that it could have been fired more than once.

While I’m asking, off topic, how many is “a couple?” For my first 40-50 years it was consistently used in a context to mean exactly “two,” as with a rail car coupler or a mixed pair of a species. In more recent years it seems to mean an indiscriminate “few.” I would suggest to those that think “a couple” is a number other than two to ask their spouse/significant other if a couple is more than two people.

[Hannibal]

I agree that once fired brass should be just that, factory ammunition that has been fired one time. If it is not known to be that then advertising it as once fired is disingenuous at best.
Having said that I now either buy factory ammunition or new brass if it is important to me to know precisely what it is. I have some rifles that I use in the field and it's unlikely I'll recover the brass so I'll use range brass if I'm not particularly concerned about the best accuracy possible.

[JimB..]

It feels like the change from meaning “one time” to meaning “previously fired some number of times” happened over the past few years. I can usually identify fired once and not resized from fired twice, but after that it’s mostly a guess.

A couple is always 2.

[elmacgyver0]

Once fire brass is factory ammo that has been fired by you, period.
If you buy once fired brass as I have many times, it's all Mexican Judo.
Judo know if it's been fired once, Judo know if it's been fired twice or more.
Judo know.
To me it is not that important.

[David2011]

I finally found this thread again. Couldn't remember where I had posted my last comment. I was reminded to search for it again when watching a chili recipe video where the presenter said to add "a couple of slices of thick cut bacon" and was clearly cutting up far more than two sliced of bacon on the cutting board.

For some cartridges it matters a lot how many times it's been fired. For example, .40 S&W has a fairly short life. If I knew I was buying a batch that had already been loaded at least 4 times I wouldn't pay much for it; 2 cents each max. For truly once fired I would pay much more than that. It's only good for about 8-10 loadings before it cracks.

[Hanzy4200]

The red sealed ones are the only ones I see that appear still crimped. This is how I sort my 5.56 brass. I only keep NATO, and only NATO with crimp intact. This ensures that I'm not starting out with Bubbas 6 times loaded brass.