Cimaron 1894?

[Maine1]

Several searches reveal very little information on the Cimaron 1894 here.

This is a surprise to me, as i figured that a few people would be loading and shooting them.

Short story is i have a hankerin' for a 38-55, for hunting, shooting and as an allaround gun that has a bit less recoil than my poor mans marlin cowboy 45-70.

to anyone that has one:
1) how is the overall quality and durability? I'm going to shoot this gun...alot. Its not to be a toy, but a tool.

2) how is the loading process going, with regard to chamber dimensions, lenght of brass used and bullet diameter?

Ive been able to find very little information on these rifles online- to the point where different capacities are listed for the same model.

I like these better than the henry, as they have longer barrels and slimmer profiles. If i can find a Winchester with s 24-26" barrel at a like price, well i'd prefer it. But that is not likely.

[G W Wade]

Can't tell anything about the Cimaron, but Starline has a good article about case length and the reason GW

[Maine1]

Yes, ive read that through a few times. These have been on the market a few years, seems like there is not much info on them though. I want a shooter, not a wall hanger and would like to verify that before i plunk down my money.

[veeman]

I wanted the same thing and opted for a 70's Winchester Commemorative Chief Crazy Horse, no safety crap, full length barrel, fine shooter.

[DAVIDMAGNUM]

I am at work right now and only have access to my phone. When I get home and have time I will give you an honest description of my year with the Cimarron Deluxe 1894 in 38-55. I have been shooting Lever Action Silhouette with it out to 200 meters for about 14 months now. I will say that I am happy with this rifle.

[36g]

I bought a carbine about a year ago but haven't fired it much yet. Workmanship on the Cimarrons is very good and I'm well pleased with it. I've fire-formed .30-30 brass and used W-W .38-55 brass. The 30-30 is a tad shorter than factory. Thus far I have used a cast 245 gr with 32.0 g Varget. Still need to do more range time with it though.

[G W Wade]

Me again. I am shooting a Win 375 Big Bore. Reformed 30/30 and Starline 38/55 brass 16 gr 2400 under a RCBS 255 gr. 1300 fp with mostly under 2 in@ 100 yds Old Lyman factory du[icatation load, GW

[Noah Zark]

I have two Cinnamon 1894s, a 20" carbine and a 24" sporting rifle, both in 38-55. If I recall correctly, both are made by Chiapet in Italy. Both are extremely accurate, and the actions were nice and slick out of the box. The magazine tubes on both were at bottom dead center of the barrel on both, which is something I pay particular attention to when evaluating a levergun with a magazine tube.

Both of the Cinnamon 1894s are the accuracy equivalents of my Winchester/Miroku 1894 24" Sporting Rifle and two Marlin 336 Cowboys, one still wearing the 24" barrel, the other having been cut and crowned by a former owner to 20". Using my reloads, I can take up any of the 38-55s, aim, and hit what I aimed at. The Marlins both have those notorious tight chambers and wide bores, so I use short Starline cases as they are thinner than W-W cases, and load Randy Moyer's 260 gr .380" dia cast boolits under 11.6 gr of Unique. That load is a tackdriver in the Marlins, and works just as well in the Winchester and Cinnamons.

I also picked up 20" Cinnamon/Chiapet 1892 carbines in 45 Colt, and 44 Magnum, and a 24" Sporting Rifle in 357 Magnum, and they have been flawless performers for me for a few years now.

My only beef is the "quality" of the "case coloring." On some it is really colorful, on others it's grayish and "muddy." The standouts are both Ubertis, an 18" 1873 in 357 Magnum with a pistol grip, and a 28" 1876 in 45-60. Gorgeous colors. But I'm getting away from Cinnamon 1894s.

Noah

[pietro]

I have two Cinnamon 1894s. If I recall correctly, both are made by Chiapet in Italy.

That would be Chiappa, pardner. :)

[Noah Zark]

That would be Chiappa, pardner. :)

Of course it is. But I calls 'em as I sees 'em, like Cinnamon, the company that sells 'em. More funner that way:


“Oswald fired from the book suppository building.”

“Noah Zark, at your cervix.”

"The testicle specifications for the lawn mower are provided in the rear of the owner's manual."


My wife and I have engaged in intentional malapropism for most of our 44 years together as a way to create humor.

Noah

[FergusonTO35]

I'm a huge 94 fan, but for the same money I would be more willing to take a chance on a Cimarron than a new Winoku with light strike gremlins.

[indian joe]

I'm a huge 94 fan, but for the same money I would be more willing to take a chance on a Cimarron than a new Winoku with light strike gremlins.

I have a Chiappa '86 - its a fine shooter and I like the unlawyered original design - kinda blows up Miruky and Uberti's argument that they had to make em "safer" to access the market (Aus and /or US) ....no they didnt !

[Maine1]

I wanted the same thing and opted for a 70's Winchester Commemorative Chief Crazy Horse, no safety crap, full length barrel, fine shooter.

Veeman, what diameter boolit did you end up going with?
I been shooting 94's quite a bit over the last few years and they have grown on me. Also like the Marlin cowboys but the lean 94 profile has won me almost 100% over..

[veeman]

I'm using .379 bullets.

[T-Bird]

Noah, we do stuff like that too!

[DAVIDMAGNUM]

I have the deluxe 1894, 26 inch barrel and pistol grip stock with crescent/rifle butt plate.

I like this rifle very much and it is still growing on me.
The attached image is a nine shot group at 100 yards using a front rest , MVA Soule rear sight and a Marbles 3/16 ivory bead front sight. The 200 yard 5 shot groups are consistently just under three inches. To say that I am thrilled with the accuracy would be an understatement.
Out to 100 yards I shoot 250gr , 20-1 alloy bullets with NRA 50/50 lube. They are loaded in short Starline brass with CCI#350 primers and 7.5 grains of Trailboss.
Out to 200 yards I shoot 290gr , air cooled wheel weight bullets with Carnauba Red lube. Again short Starline brass but with CCI#250 primers and 25 grains of H4895.
Both bullets are sized to .381. No gas checks.
The rifle functions flawlessly and shoots more accurately than I can hold on the 200 meter rams.
Now, for the not so good things.
The trigger pull was far too heavy for me. The flat mainspring was thick and heavy. The firing pin was an inertia type. That is, the firing pin is shorter than the bolt and there is a firing pin return spring. So, if the hammer is fully forward and resting on the firing pin extension, the firing pin does not protrude from the bolt face.
I replaced the firing pin with an "original" style newly manufactured and purchased from Midway USA. I replaced the mainspring with a Uberti 1873 reduced power spring from Long Hunter Shooting Supply. At least in the Ubertis, the 1873 and 1894 Winchester main springs are the same shape and size.
to sum it up. The my Cimarron 1894 Deluxe functions flawlessly. It has a true half cock safety but no modern safeties added to the original. The rifling is crisp and deep for using cast bullets. The flats on the octagon barrel are well defined, unlike Henry Repeating Arms where they are over polished. Most importantly to me, the rifle is consistently accurate.

[FergusonTO35]

Awesome. Cimarron really needs to do a better job promoting these guns, given how much people are willing to spend on a decent original. I honestly haven't seen an ad for Cimarron in a gun rag since the 2000's.

[Maine1]

Hey, thanks Davidmagnum! Thats just the type of information i was looking for.
Ive got a line on an 80's Winchester, if that falls through (more than likely to) I'm going to take another look at the Cimarons as a shooter.
Impressive shooting too!

[Walks]

I wanted the same thing and opted for a 70's Winchester Commemorative Chief Crazy Horse, no safety crap, full length barrel, fine shooter.

I've been shooting one for about 30yrs. Great rifles, add a tang sight and a fold down Marbles rear and You're good for 50 tp 200yds. Was great for Cowboy Long Range back I the day.

Think it was made in 1981-2

[veeman]

Mine was made in 79

[indian joe]

Mine was made 1980 (according to the experts - I googled)
Oliver F Winchester - its a real nice shooter - I use the LEE 250 grain mold - blackpowder and a juice box wad - and if I be bothered sizing it gets .379.........................

Not in love with the gold finish but there are enough brass guns around the blackpowder shoots that nobody takes much notice anymore.

[Maine1]

Handled a cimaron carbine at a LGS today. Appeared well made, nicley fitted, and overall a quality rifle.
Also handled a 20" winchester 94, a newly manufactured model. Was..OK. my jets were cooled due to the safety, and the appearance of the receiver. If it had been 24"....id have bought it anyway.
Cimaron is taking top slot in my search now...

[FergusonTO35]

In any event, if i ever buy another new lever action it will probably be a Henry. They make excellent products at a very competitive price and their customer service is second to none.

[Maine1]

Well...after the Winchester crazy horse commemorative rifle i was winning on went for 1700 or so...and the carbine i handled was pretty nice, i took the plunge and ordered a CA2903: 26" full mag, 9 shot 38-55.
Picked it up yesterday, and ran dummy rounds though it in the shop. If at max COAL, it did not want to feed. The shorter rounds cycled fine. No worries, looking at it, it seems like it may be due to some burrs on the internals.

Shot it this AM, with a load of 3031 and 260 gr .379 bullets. No group at all. My thoughts got to 1) bullet diameter 2) COAL and 3) length of brass, this is the shorter starline brass.
Ive got some gas checked .379 bullets to try out for S&G's, then im going to slug the bore.

Overall, though i have not yet done a teardown on it, this is a niceley made rifle, bore is clean and bright, looks sharp, cycling is a hair tight, nor really rough, and i'm sure it will smooth out nicely the more i shoot it. The bluing seems very well done, but I'm not a refined connesuer of finely blued weapons.
No safety, just the old half cock system that we all grew up with. Sights are semi buckhorn, and are okay, once i get a load dialed in I'll see if i really like them.

overall, if i can settle on a good load for this rifle, and i'm thinking that will largey be a function of bullet diameter, i' be quite happy, this it a great looking rifle that handles well. The only thing that i'd do to improve it is taper the barrel some, as it would make it feel better in hand, though this is not as heavy as i feared it might be. Its a 94 so its pretty lean in profile, but the extra 6" make it more front heavy than your 20" round barrel 30-30, as one would expect. By no means too heavy for a day in the woods though.

[Maine1]

Well, I thought i might share some of the cimarron saga...

Ive been shooting it with 3031, and 270-280 gr bullets, .379 and .381 dia.
379 did not group at all- shotgun pattern.
380 gas check bullets were a little better, 3-4" group at 50 yards....not what i was hoping for, but not a shotgun anymore,
The bore slugs right at .380". Got some .381" gas checked bullets in from maplewood bullets in VT, and loaded six up. from 50 yards i got about a 3" group, but some of that may be due to the failing light.
My load is that 280 gr .381 bullet, 30 gr 3031, at about 2.5" as that feeds and chambers well.
Going to try 10 more rounds when ive got better light, but thinking about changing powders, as there seems to be some good results from unique in 38-55.
So far im not thrilled with the accuracy, but i'm also still developing a load, hoping to find a combination that will stay tight at 50 yards, so then we can get on with the longer ranges. Then i get a mold..

Any other ideas always welcome!

[Just plain Bill]

I bought a Cimarron 1894 in 38-55 back in the summer of 2020 I slugged the bore and mine was .380 as well. I purchased some bullets from Volmer precision and loaded up 20 and at 50 yds they shot 3" high with the rear sight all the way down. I ordered a taller front sight and never got a chance to shoot it again. I may break it out soon and start all over.

[Maine1]

I bought a Cimarron 1894 in 38-55 back in the summer of 2020 I slugged the bore and mine was .380 as well. I purchased some bullets from Volmer precision and loaded up 20 and at 50 yds they shot 3" high with the rear sight all the way down. I ordered a taller front sight and never got a chance to shoot it again. I may break it out soon and start all over.

I'm making a bit of progress, loaded and shot some 3031 loads, as well as some with Unique. Groups were better with unique, and improved with both powders once i started shooting without my reading glasses.
Though i'm not satisfied with the accuracy yet, it seems i'm slowly dialing it in.
Loading up 20 more 30 gr 3031 loads with the .381" boolits, loaded to max length the gun will cycle.
If this does not improve things, i'll try 4064.
I'm thinking i might need the longer brass, mine is the 2.080 starline. The longer stuff is out of stock, so finding some to try is hit or miss.
Had two primer pockets loosen on me , never had that happen with starline before.

[veeman]

When you can, try some IMR 4198

[Maine1]

When you can, try some IMR 4198

Thats a bit faster than 3031. what is the idea behind it?

I drifted the sight a bit to the right as the gun was printing left. Best group of the day today was 2 1/2" or so, with two in the black. It would likley be much better with a rest and better daylight, but i'm going to get this dialed in at 50 with a good tight group before burning powder at longer range. Had to single feed these rounds as they were too long to feed, tonight i'll load up some more with a slightly shorter length that will feed, and see how they do.
I'm thinking i might need to find some of the longer brass.
Think i might make some crossed sticks for a rest

[koger]

Pics please.

[Maine1]

Pics please.

working on it! gotta remember my password so i can log in on my phone ;)

[Maine1]

I’m305422
I’ll try a pic of the rifle, but it will not upload.
This is todays group.
Pic is flipped, the flyer was on the left in reality.

[Just plain Bill]

I'm making a bit of progress, loaded and shot some 3031 loads, as well as some with Unique. Groups were better with unique, and improved with both powders once i started shooting without my reading glasses.
Though i'm not satisfied with the accuracy yet, it seems i'm slowly dialing it in.
Loading up 20 more 30 gr 3031 loads with the .381" boolits, loaded to max length the gun will cycle.
If this does not improve things, i'll try 4064.
I'm thinking i might need the longer brass, mine is the 2.080 starline. The longer stuff is out of stock, so finding some to try is hit or miss.
Had two primer pockets loosen on me , never had that happen with starline before.

I used the longer brass without any issues

[Maine1]

I plan on trying the longer brass once it comes in stock. Its evidently pretty precious, and people will not sell it or are asking 2.50 each. Though it seems that the shorter brass shoots pretty well.

What rifle are you shooting Bill?

[Mint]

My only Cimarron is an 1873, but I will add my .02 about your first question... The build quality I would say is good. The action is a lot different than an 1894 so I can't comment on that, but I suspect considering they all come from the same place in Italy it's about the same. The biggest thing is that Cimarron/Uberti/Taylor feel more like guns you can shoot and not feel bad if they scratch, etc. The quality leaves just a tad to be desired. Just _something_ about it feels slightly cheaper.

If you never fire anything else you wouldn't know it though. It wasn't until I got a Winchester/Miroku 1873 where my mind was blown wide open. The quality of the Miroku guns are astronomically awesome. My Miroku 1873 and 1892 are such high quality that I would be buried with them... I wouldn't be buried with a cimarron.

https://www.winchesterguns.com/products/rifles/model-94/current/model-94-deluxe-sporting.html

If you can stomach the price I would just get that. The miroku is hands down THE most accurate gun I own out of 12+ lever guns. Every single part of it is beautifully crafted and precise. I'm also not a benchrest shooter or extreme marksman so take that for what it's worth, but it's absolutely noticeable when compared with Chiappa, Marlin (the good years), Winchester pre/post 64, Uberti, Henry.

I'm certain Miroku quality would be in that 1894 as well. After I held that gun I stopped looking to buy anythign else really and completing my whole Miroku collection