Ruger NM Blackhawks in 45 Colt with a 45 acp cylinder vs. a plain Ruger NM Blackhawk

[JoeJames]

I helped my cousin out who had three tables at a local gun show. I sold a few items myself yesterday morning. But another seller had a Ruger NM Blackhawk on his table in 45 Colt with an extra 45 acp cylinder. He wanted $675 and then changed his mind and pulled it off his table. I was interested as I have slowly and incrementally gotten into loading 45 Colt mostly to help out another cousin who has a pair of Ruger BH’s in 45 Colt. I did some bulllet swapping with a buddy and came up with 50 .452 255 grain, if I remember right, cast bullets. They did pretty well with Trail Boss. In any event I made my sales and had some cash on hand after he pulled the Ruger 45 Colt. I was hesitant to make an offer before he pulled the Ruger because I wondered if there was any difference in accuracy between a Ruger Blackhawk solely in 45 Colt vs. one in 45 Colt with a 45 acp cylinder? This is probably a stupid question but I was curious. I assume that it probably depends on the particular Blackhawk - cylinder throat size, and barrel groove size, but just wondering what is y’all’s experience with Ruger NM Blackhawks in 45 Colt with an extra 45 acp cylinder vs. a plain Ruger NM Blackhawk in 45 Colt ?

[HWooldridge]

No, the barrels are the same. No diff between 45 LC or with combo 45 acp. Same concept as .357/9mm.

[mnewcomb59]

I had Dougguy do the cylinders on my convertible Blackhawk. Before his work, the gun shot 3-4" at 25 and leaded in the forcing cone because the throats were all too small. Afterwards almost any load you can slap together will shoot 2" at 25 and a few loads in the Colt cylinder shoot 3/4-1" at 25.

The ACP cylinder gives the bullets a lot of runway to gain speed before they engage the forcing cone. Recovered ACP bullets show pretty significant skidding on the first few driving bands because I assume they are hitting the rifling at at least 400-500 fps. For this reason I have had soft lead ACP bullets shoot like crap, but give them a bit of hardness around 13 BHN and they shoot around 2".

I love the ACP cases in the single action. They fly out of the cylinders with the ejector rod and a 1911 mag makes a nifty speed loader. Eject empty, thumb a round of the mag into the hole, and rotate. You can reload really fast. I also like the ACP cylinder for plinking instead of tying up my Colt brass with mild loads that are inconsistent and position sensitive. I load lots of ACP for my 1911 and the Blackhawk with a 250-260 grain HP/FN to about 830 fps in the 1911 (900 fps in the 5.5" revolver). Loaded with Power Pistol at this velocity, the pressures are about 17k PSI and it burns cleaner and more consistent than a 45 Colt load at similar velocity. Muzzle blast is mild compared to a 357 mag. Great field load. Got one whitetail with it at 65 yards-Texas Heart shot and bullet was found in the neck in front of the shoulder.

All my Colt brass gets used for upper end standard pressure and +p. You can use 6.2 gr of Bullseye in a 45 colt case or use 6.2 gr Power Pistol in an ACP case and shoot a 250 at the same speed but the ACP is much more consistent SD whether barrel level or barrel down. No bloopers when you point the barrel down and shoot a trapped animal with the ACP at 800ish fps but the Colt will definitely lose 150 fps in the same scenario with Bullseye. Your average 800 fps 45 Colt load probably only gets 650 fps when the barrel is pointed down shooting a deer under your tree.

Why not use the free ACP brass and no big deal if you lose a few in the grass. The only down side is the convertible Blackhawk doesn't like soft lead over 900 fps with the ACP cylinder, but its not a huge down side. With some harder lead I had good accuracy with 250s around 1100 fps in the 45 Super loadings.

The Colt cylinder shoots the hotter loads much more accurately than an equivalent velocity 45 Super load because the bullets engage the rifling much sooner and don't seem to skid on the first few driving bands.

[JoeJames]

I had Dougguy do the cylinders on my convertible Blackhawk. Before his work, the gun shot 3-4" at 25 and leaded in the forcing cone because the throats were all too small. Afterwards almost any load you can slap together will shoot 2" at 25 and a few loads in the Colt cylinder shoot 3/4-1" at 25.

The ACP cylinder gives the bullets a lot of runway to gain speed before they engage the forcing cone. Recovered ACP bullets show pretty significant skidding on the first few driving bands because I assume they are hitting the rifling at at least 400-500 fps. For this reason I have had soft lead ACP bullets shoot like crap, but give them a bit of hardness around 13 BHN and they shoot around 2".

I love the ACP cases in the single action. They fly out of the cylinders with the ejector rod and a 1911 mag makes a nifty speed loader. Eject empty, thumb a round of the mag into the hole, and rotate. You can reload really fast. I also like the ACP cylinder for plinking instead of tying up my Colt brass with mild loads that are inconsistent and position sensitive. I load lots of ACP for my 1911 and the Blackhawk with a 250-260 grain HP/FN to about 830 fps in the 1911 (900 fps in the 5.5" revolver). Loaded with Power Pistol at this velocity, the pressures are about 17k PSI and it burns cleaner and more consistent than a 45 Colt load at similar velocity. Muzzle blast is mild compared to a 357 mag. Great field load. Got one whitetail with it at 65 yards-Texas Heart shot and bullet was found in the neck in front of the shoulder.

All my Colt brass gets used for upper end standard pressure and +p. You can use 6.2 gr of Bullseye in a 45 colt case or use 6.2 gr Power Pistol in an ACP case and shoot a 250 at the same speed but the ACP is much more consistent SD whether barrel level or barrel down. No bloopers when you point the barrel down and shoot a trapped animal with the ACP at 800ish fps but the Colt will definitely lose 150 fps in the same scenario with Bullseye. Your average 800 fps 45 Colt load probably only gets 650 fps when the barrel is pointed down shooting a deer under your tree.

Why not use the free ACP brass and no big deal if you lose a few in the grass. The only down side is the convertible Blackhawk doesn't like soft lead over 900 fps with the ACP cylinder, but its not a huge down side. With some harder lead I had good accuracy with 250s around 1100 fps in the 45 Super loadings.

The Colt cylinder shoots the hotter loads much more accurately than an equivalent velocity 45 Super load because the bullets engage the rifling much sooner and don't seem to skid on the first few driving bands.

Thanks to all of y'all for the information. I figured it was better to ask first before I plunked my money down. I suppose I was thinking about 22LR - 22WMR convertibles, which I understand are generally accurate with one but not the other. BTW when I loaded some 45 Colt for my cousin - fairly light loads with WIN231 - I discovered they were certainly situation sensitive - in my 10" Contender - barrel down @ 350 fps - barrel up first @600 fps. I switched to Trail Boss which did just fine. The 45 Colt case is a big'un for sure.

[lar45]

The Cowboy 45 Special works just fine in the acp cylinder also.
The price sounds pretty decent.

[JoeJames]

The Cowboy 45 Special works just fine in the acp cylinder also.
The price sounds pretty decent.

I thought it was a tolerable price, and that may be why he pulled it off the table.

[M-Tecs]

I have 6 45 Colt with a 45 acp cylinder guns and even with the additional bullet jump the 45 acp are equal if not better in accuracy than the 45 Colt. The 22LR/22WMR accuracy issues are due to the .224" bore being used for the 22WMR verse the .222" bore of the 22LR.

[bisleyfan41]

The acp cylinder makes mine the most accurate Blackhawk I've ever fired. I own/have owned and fired over 40 of them. Simply puts one bullet on top of the other at 25 yds. LOVE my 45 convertible!

[JoeJames]

The acp cylinder makes mine the most accurate Blackhawk I've ever fired. I own/have owned and fired over 40 of them. Simply puts one bullet on top of the other at 25 yes. LOVE my 45 convertible!

Well, of course I knew the difference in diameter between the 22LR and the 22WMR, but it still preyed on my mind a bit. Hell, I'm 71 and things do pop into my head. But I just was thinking on my own here - with a 1911 you do sometimes kind of have problems now and then with feeding SWC's etc, but in a revolver that would not be a problem at all. Dern, I may call that seller up and see if he's still got his dealing shoes on.

[jonp]

You know, I've got a 45lc/45acp and have never shot it. 45acp is still in the velvet pouch

[bisleyfan41]

Well, of course I knew the difference in diameter between the 22LR and the 22WMR, but it still preyed on my mind a bit. Hell, I'm 71 and things do pop into my head. But I just was thinking on my own here - with a 1911 you do sometimes kind of have problems now and then with feeding SWC's etc, but in a revolver that would not be a problem at all. Dern, I may call that seller up and see if he's still got his dealing shoes on.

Yep, nose profile is irrelevant in a cylinder. You can shoot full-on wadcutters if you choose. Can shoot +p and 45 Super without issues. Cowboy Special brass with the 454424, yep.

[Char-Gar]

Have no fears about the revolver. It will produce outstanding accuracy with both cylinders IF the cylinder throats are the proper size. They maybe undersized and if that is the case DougGuy can fix that for a reasonable cost.

[MT Gianni]

https://www.hensleygibbs.com/edharris/articles/.45%20Convertible%20Blackhawk.htm
One of the better articles out there on this subject.

[Land Owner]

I "parked" the ACP cylinder in the safe and shot the 45 Colt almost exclusively, because THAT was FUN! With a revolver, there is no loss of brass, the BH can take a lot of pressure, multiple calibers in one gun are nice, and reloading is easy - even a Lee loader can do it! I gave the Convertible BH to my youngest son and when I find the ACP cylinder, I'll give him that too.

[Green Frog]

It’s a shame that you got “timed out” on the 45 combo BH. It would have been worth owning, and at that price would have been a bargain, IMHO.

My kid brother bought a NM 45 BH over 30 years ago… just the 45 Colt, not a combo. I was at a gun show and saw an orphan Ruger cylinder in its red felt bag sitting forlornly on a table. It was marked at a give away price, so I bought it and presented it to my brother. Not only was it a perfect drop in fit, he claimed it was more accurate than the original Colt cylinder! Go figure.

Froggie

[gunther]

Some of the very early new model 45 Rugers may have oversize cylinder throats. Take a .452 slug with you and hope it is a snug fit in the throats. They shoot ok with .454 throats, but, finding .454 molds will be an added expense.

[JoeJames]

Some of the very early new model 45 Rugers may have oversize cylinder throats. Take a .452 slug with you and hope it is a snug fit in the throats. They shoot ok with .454 throats, but, finding .454 molds will be an added expense.

That's a grand idea and an easy way to check. Thanks for the hint.

[Larry Gibson]

My 45 Colt/45 ACP convertible revolver is not a Ruger but a Uberti "Evil Roy". Both cylinders have .453 (pinned) throats. The 45 Colts I shoot are usually Lee 452-200-RFs sized .454 loaded over 7.3 gr Bullseye which run at 925 fps out of the revolver and 1225 fps out my 20" M73 at 14,000 psi. I shoot my standard 45 ACP load of 190 - 230 gr cast bullets sized .452 over 5 gr Bullseye for 850 fps +/- out of the revolver. The sights (nonadjustable) are regulated that the 45 ACP hits POA at 25 yards and the 45 Colt hits POA at 50 yards.

[DougGuy]

Take a .452 slug with you and hope it is a snug fit in the throats.

If they won't go through the throats without effort, this would be pretty much the norm, pretty much as expected.

Take a plastic cleaning jag with you, see if the seller will let you patch it tightly into the bore with a couple squares of paper towel, push it down the bore and if it get's tight or stops completely where the barrel joins the frame, that's thread choke you are feeling. It the resistance required to keep the jag moving remains constant and doesn't get harder? There is NO choke and this one can and will be a great shooter, with properly sized throats and properly sized boolits.

[charlie b]

I had one a long time ago. Both cylinders/cartridges gave excellent accuracy. After a couple cylinders of acp I put the cylinder away. Why? Any acp ammo I had was fired in my 1911 (which was also very accurate). I bought the BH to shoot heavier .45 loads, and it did that very well.

But, I got bored with the gun and sold it a few years later.

It makes a lot more sense for someone who does not handload. .45acp ammo is almost always on the sales shelves. .45LC can be hard to find, especially the higher power Ruger only loads.

[MSD MIke]

My convertible Blackhawk is generally a pretty accurate revolver. The MOST accurrate load is 45ACP with 200 grain SWC bullets. Hardness doesn’t seem to matter much and pretty much any published load I have tried works great. I have settled on 4 grains of Bullseye with great results.

Mike

[murf205]

Joe, call him and tell him you have $600 in cash but be prepared to give up the other $75. You wont be hurt at what he asked but cash does the talking, after all.

[DougGuy]

I bought a Lipsey's Limited Edition New Model Flattop Blackhawk Convertible several years back, honed the throats in both cylinders to .4525" took all the creep out of the trigger, swapped in a Wolff 30oz. trigger return spring, recut and polished the forcing cone on 11 degrees, listed it for sale with described improvements, COA, etc, just made a real nice real accurate package out of it. It sold in about 2 hours I think for $675.

5 years later the original buyer messaged me asking about value for resale, I didn't blink an eye, bought it back from him for $750, sent him a MO and never looked back!

Currently Lipseys prices for the same limited edition convertible 45s are hovering around $1100 last I checked.

The Lipsey's guns are fitted and finished a tad bit better than stock production guns, they are "picked" over to satisfy Lipsey's criteria, they are really sweet guns with .452" throats but still benefit from having throats honed another half thou and probably could benefit from forcing cone work, and certainly could benefit from removing the creep from the trigger and using the Wolff trigger return spring.

Once you have this done to a standard/stock production gun, accuracy will be very comparable to the Lipsey's gun provided the barrel is free of any thread choke at the frame.

[JoeJames]

Joe, call him and tell him you have $600 in cash but be prepared to give up the other $75. You wont be hurt at what he asked but cash does the talking, after all.

I am still considering calling him. Only reason I have held off was because I know that once I get it in 45 Colt I will go whole hog. I already have a stainless steel Lipsey Ruger NM Blackhawk in 44 Special that is my favorite revolver. Up to now I have just reloaded a few rounds for one of my cousins. I did some bullet swapping - my cast 38 swc's for a buddy's 45 swc's. But if I jump into it I will be getting a good mold, and then devote a pretty good spell to working up loads. And prior to that I expect I will need to get a good spring kit; unless this one is the exception to the rule that Rugers have heavy triggers. And further, after I check the bore and the chamber throats I may be calling DougGuy.

[Char-Gar]

I am still considering calling him. Only reason I have held off was because I know that once I get it in 45 Colt I will go whole hog. I already have a stainless steel Lipsey Ruger NM Blackhawk in 44 Special that is my favorite revolver. Up to now I have just reloaded a few rounds for one of my cousins. I did some bullet swapping - my cast 38 swc's for a buddy's 45 swc's. But if I jump into it I will be getting a good mold, and then devote a pretty good spell to working up loads. And prior to that I expect I will need to get a good spring kit; unless this one is the exception to the rule that Rugers have heavy triggers. And further, after I check the bore and the chamber throats I may be calling DougGuy.

Before you go the spring kit route, try this: Remove the grips and you will see the coil mainspring is connected to the frame via two cast in lugs on the grip frame. Take a small screw driver or a punch and flip one of the spring legs off the lug and replace the grip. You will drop the trigger pull by half and the ignition won't be affected one bit.

[JoeJames]

Before you go the spring kit route, try this: Remove the grips and you will see the coil mainspring is connected to the frame via two cast in lugs on the grip frame. Take a small screw driver or a punch and flip one of the spring legs off the lug and replace the grip. You will drop the trigger pull by half and the ignition won't be affected one bit.Yep, "poor man's trigger job"; I did that on my Ruger Wrangler - I could not see putting extra money into it. I dropped the trigger pull by about half. I agree it does not effect the ignition as the hammer spring is unaffected. There is another reason to at least start with that. I replaced the trigger spring with on the blued Lipsey Ruger with a spring from Wilson (Arkansas made after all), and changing it out is not for the faint of heart. And then, I swapped my blued Lipsey Ruger Blackhawk with my cousin for a stainless Lipsey Ruger Blackhawk; since he was not going to keep it, I swapped out the Wilson spring in the blued one back to the factory spring, and then replaced the factory spring in the stainless Lipsey Blackhawk with the Wilson spring. I know I have spent some time explaining it, but it certainly does not compare to how much time I actually spent on both taking them down and putting them back together.

[murf205]

I am still considering calling him. Only reason I have held off was because I know that once I get it in 45 Colt I will go whole hog. I already have a stainless steel Lipsey Ruger NM Blackhawk in 44 Special that is my favorite revolver. Up to now I have just reloaded a few rounds for one of my cousins. I did some bullet swapping - my cast 38 swc's for a buddy's 45 swc's. But if I jump into it I will be getting a good mold, and then devote a pretty good spell to working up loads. And prior to that I expect I will need to get a good spring kit; unless this one is the exception to the rule that Rugers have heavy triggers. And further, after I check the bore and the chamber throats I may be calling DougGuy.

When you speak of getting a good mold, you don't have to spend a fortune for one that has surprised me, anyway. It is the 252 Lee swc, and it has produced results equal to better than, the custom molds I have used. The 45 cal 200gr RF Lee has a pretty steady following as well. AND...they come with handles. Working up the loads for a new wheel gun is 1/2 the fun.

[JoeJames]

When you speak of getting a good mold, you don't have to spend a fortune for one that has surprised me, anyway. It is the 252 Lee swc, and it has produced results equal to better than, the custom molds I have used. The 45 cal 200gr RF Lee has a pretty steady following as well. AND...they come with handles. Working up the loads for a new wheel gun is 1/2 the fun.

I expect you mean a Lee 452 mold. I have a similar mold but for 44 Special, and without checking I think it is styled the Lee 430 240 TL SWC mold, and it is fairly inexpensive. The bullets I have cast with it are in my opinion more accurate than any commercial cast bullets I have tried, or at least as accurate as commercial cast bullets.
I also cast similarly configured Lee TL molds for 32S&W Long SWC's, and for 38 Special SWC's (I also have a Lee double cavity mold for 38 button nose wad cutters). I am taking my time, possibly because I'd rather have stainless than blued, and also because I am of pedigreed hill farmer stock who have mostly inhabited the southern highlands from VA to NC to NW Georgia, and on to the Ozarks before and just after the War. We tend to be close with our money.

[murf205]

"We tend to be close with our money." Me too, mainly because I don't have a lot of it. I have had very good luck with the Lee molds in both 44 and 45 cal. I have some custom molds but I never ran across a gun that cared how much a boolit mold cost! A lot of people bash Lee's but I'm thankful for them. I wish they would make 4 cavity molds.