Getting started

[MDKelley]

Hello from mid Michigan. I am attempting to get started casting for my grandad's 1953 Marlin 336 30-30 (ballard rifling). I slugged the barrel and seemed to be .308. I ordered a lee 309-170-f mold and picked up a small cast iron hide glue pot at a rummage sale for $5 half full of lead and plan to just use the inside part and a propane cook top to start. Local tire shop gave me half a bucket of wheel weights for free, probably 1/3 were zinc or steel, the majority were lead (checked each one with a magnet, drop test, looking at markings and also wire cutter test since I wanted to be certain I removed all non-lead ones). I also have a quantity of lead fishing "bank" sinkers (maybe 50lbs.) I have picked up over the years and a stack of ingots the tire shop owner sold me cheap that he had sitting around to cast as fishing lures someday. Also got a random ingot at a rummage sale for $0.50.

My question is, should I melt/mix all the lead I have together to get a decent mix since I have no idea what the sinkers or ingots are as far as composition/hardness? The wheel weights actually seemed to be of varying hardness as well, some were much softer than others. I plan to flux with olive oil and sawdust since I have both onhand.
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[MDKelley]

forgot to mention, I also ordered 2lbs of powder coat from a person on here, and over-payed $6 for a toaster oven at a rummage sale to bake them. Going to build the gas check maker from the plans on this site to make checks out of aluminum cans/flashing as well.

[Buck Butcher]

If it were me, I’d keep the different lead separate. You can melt and remelt to get fluxing experience, but I’d just cast from the ingots you already have to get started. Once you see the first cast, you may want to test hardness, blend, or whatever else you’re inspired to do. This stuff is fun, and I’d encourage you to read lots of stickies, get both feet wet and ask questions. This group is very helpful.

I remember my first boolit, and hope you enjoy this as much as I have.

Mark

[The Dar]

Welcome to the forum. I agree, you should keep your types of lead separate. I recommend an inexpensive stamping set from Harbor Freight to mark your ingots. Fishing weights could be anything, but usually soft. There is a way to test hardness using artists pencils. I haven't done it, do a search of the site and you'll find it. You have a good start on your lead supply. I recommend networking (asking anyone you know if they know where you can find lead) Casting brings a whole new game to shooting and you'll be surprised how fast you'll use it up.

Mid Michigan, what part? I grew up 20 miles east of Saginaw.

[MDKelley]

Beaverton, MI. About an hour NW of Saginaw.

[MDKelley]

cast up a few tonight. Just as many rejects as good ones (49 "keepers") but I am learning. At first my lead was too hot (frosted) and then I let the mould cool too much and the bullets were a bit deformed.

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frosted and a shiny one:
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Do I save this chunky stuff that was at the bottom of the pan or toss it? I don't have any ingot molds so I just poured the leftover into a couple pieces of steel C clamped together rather than leave it in the pan.
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Also, many of the bullets have casting lines where the mold halves meet. Not sure it that really matters or not. I tried to make sure the halves were clean and it appeared they were closing up tight so maybe that is normal.

[BLAHUT]

picked up a browney muffin tin for $1.00 that i use for ingots.

[MDKelley]

I had a steel muffin pan in my hand a couple weeks ago at a rummage sale but one hole had a dent in it so I figured I would wait for a "better" one. I just used a 5" long piece of C channel and C clamped a couple plates to the end for tonight's pour. The brick it made is pretty heavy. I have a small "collection" of random steel shapes/sizes, I may just weld an ingot mold up from either C channel or from angle iron.

[Hick]

If you plan to size the bullets the casting lines will likely go away. I also use the 309 170 bullet in my 30-30, but lubed. I have another bullet for the 30-30 that I do powder coat, so I size to 309 before coating. Since you are powder coating, if you decide to size you can get a lee push-through sizer. They don't cost much and do a good job, and with them you can size before coating. The Lee sizer instructions say to lube the bullets a little before sizing, but I have found that with a 309 mold I can size to 309 without lube just to clean up the surface without any difficulty. This leaves the bullet dry and helps the powder coat work better.

[Rich/WIS]

Might want to check the fishing weights, depending on who cast them and what they used (like unsorted wheel weights) they may not be suitable for bullets.

[slughammer]

I had a steel muffin pan.................. I have a small "collection" of random steel shapes/sizes, I may just weld an ingot mold up from either C channel or from angle iron.

Yes, make your own or buy a real ingot molds. Muffin pans are very inefficient at stacking and nesting. C-channel or angle iron will stack much-much better. (Consider making them the width of an ammo can, flat rate box or other handy shape; you'll enjoy cooperative ingots for years to come).

Sent from my SM-G781U using Tapatalk

[The Dar]

Not a problem with frosty bullets. I find that powder coating adheres better to frosty bullets. I assume your Lee 309-170 mold is new. It will cast better the more times it's used. Your bullets are looking fine.

[GregLaROCHE]

Well it depends. You could keep things separate, so you would know if some casted or shot better. The other way is mix and melt as much as possible and cast ingots. That way it would all be consistent. You could add some tin to your casting pot before casting if needed. PCing the boolits makes decisions about alloys much simpler.

[justindad]

Also, many of the bullets have casting lines where the mold halves meet. Not sure it that really matters or not. I tried to make sure the halves were clean and it appeared they were closing up tight so maybe that is normal.

That is normal. The line you see is called a parting line. If the use micrometers to measure the diameter on either side of the parting line, you will get the concentricity error of the two sides of the bullet.

[405grain]

You can save the "chunky stuff" that was at the bottom of the casting pot and melt it in with the next batch that you cast. It'll be mostly alloy. However, when you flux your melt and skim off the dross, make sure to throw that stuff away. Metallic lead isn't nearly as toxic as lead oxides, and the scum that gets skimmed off the top when you flux probably has lead oxides in it. When you flux the melt the oxidized metals like lead and tin will be returned to their metallic form and these good metals go back into the melt. The crud that floats on the top afterwards isn't going to de-oxidize and needs to be skimmed off. After it has cooled, throw that crud away. Don't breath the dust from it, and wash your hands with soap and water if you handle it.

By the way, there are lots of things that can be used to flux with, but I think the best is bees wax. It only takes a piece the size of a pea to flux a 10 pound melt. Just don't let the pot temperature get too hot: if the melt is too hot it will oxidize faster - if the melt pot or molds are too cold you will get wrinkled bullets. Try to keep the temperature withing the "It's casting good" range. When a grey film starts to build up on the surface of the pot, that's usually tin starting to oxidize. Just stir in a piece of bees wax (or other suitable flux) and it will reduce the oxides and put the tin back into solution. After you flux the surface should be bright and shiny. If you start to see brown or tan powder forming, that usually means that the pot is WAY too hot, and your oxidizing the lead. Always wear some protective gloves when casting (and eye protection too). Often, when you add flux it will smoke a lot, and sometimes can burst into flames. If it does catch fire don't freak out - it will burn itself out fairly quickly, and while it's burning at least it won't smoke.

While your mold blocks are cold, close them in your mold handles, and with the sprue plate open look down into the cavities and see if you can see any light leaking in where the two mold blocks meet. If there's a gap letting light in between the mold blocks it means that the molds aren't closing all the way. When I have this problem the first thing I check is to see if there is any flattened specks of lead on the faces of the molds. If there is I heat the molds up and wipe the specks away. If they are stubborn I might have to resort to scrubbing them off with a copper choir-boy pad, (on iron molds only!), but always be mindful not to damage the mold cavities. If there's an air gap, but the mold faces are clean, then I check to make sure if the alignment pins on the molds are going all the way into their holes. When this is happening (usually with a brand new set of molds) I put a VERY light chamfer on the edges of the holes that the alignment pins seat into. This usually solves the problem.

[Land Owner]

You have:
1. wheel weights
2. lead fishing sinkers
3. "unknown" ingots from the tire shop owner
4. "unknown" garage sale ingot

WW's are a "no brainer". Those will cast boolits for your 30-30 just fine and likely the tire shop ingots as well.

You can check comparable hardness with the Pencil Test, as linked here:
https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?75455-Testing-hardness-with-pencils

You can "design" an alloy, using assumptions, with a "Calculator, as linked here:
https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?105952-Lead-alloy-calculators

If you have not already, download and READ this book, as linked here:
https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?110213-From-Ingot-to-Target-A-Cast-Bullet-Guide-for-Handgunners

Don't let the "Guide for Handgunners" in the book title fool you. There is a wealth of information about lead, alloys of lead, zinc, molds, heat, shooting lead, and so much more. See all of Chapter 8, especially "Heating the Spru Plate".

The 30-30 is one of the MOST forgiving calibers for which to cast and where I started. What is your "end game" with the 30-30? Meat hunting? Plinking? Home Defense? Each of these have different alloy and velocity considerations.

Rejects are put back into the pot for another try. Saw dust is free and a very good flux. Candle and crayon wax is mostly free and very good flux too.

Welcome to the addiction. Keep asking questions.

[white eagle]

yes it is a very addictive habit
you are on the rite track though
no need to worry about frosty boolits just slow down your tempo and get your mold a bit cooler that will work out
if you are getting fins on the parting line then your mold isn't closing correctly clean and get back in the game
good luck, have fun

[MDKelley]

I have downloaded the Fryxell book and am reading it. I probably will wait to do another cast until after I complete it.

30-30 will be used for hunting once I get an "accurate" hunting load worked out. Maybe do some plinking or target shooting but would just use the same bullets as target shooting is just hunting practice to me.

Thanks for the suggestions and guidance!

[lightman]

Welcome to the Cast Boolits site and to the hobby of casting!

It sounds like you are off to a good start. Its common to get a high % of rejects when you first get started. Don't be discouraged , you will get better as you gain experience. I would keep your different types of lead separate. If you haven't done so, read the stickies on sorting wheelweights. It will help you a lot. I use sawdust when I melt my scrap lead and cast ingots. I use bees way or any other type of wax in my casting pot. Good Luck and keep up the good work!

[JoeJames]

The Fryxell book is excellent - From Ingot to Target At least two things I picked up from it and have used ever since were - sawdust for fluxing - course mind the smoke, and put your mold into the melt bottom side up (not the whole mold) so the sprue plate touches the melt and heats up fast.

[gwpercle]

Welcome To Cast Boolits ... You are off to a good start !
I also test every wheel weight , the clip on wheel weights you can cast into ingots and mark them as such ... COWW stamped into each beats a slip of paper in the bucket ... the paper disappears and you forget !
A good alloy , which stretches your supply of COWW is to mix it 50-50 with soft lead ... it doesn't need to be pure lead just soft like range scrap or possibly lead fishing sinkers or anything that is mostly soft lead .
My free unlimited source of wheel weights retired from the tire business and I had to find a way to stretch my COWW supply ... the boys in the hunting section used 50-50 COWW -Soft Lead in 30-30 deer loads and they mushroomed nicely so I tried the mix ... it makes a better boolit , handgun and most rifle , than straight COWW.
Keep your COWW and soft lead ingots marked when casting I put one of each in the pot ...
the mix doesn't have to be a perfectly exact 50-50 blend , close works just fine and dandy !
I have that same Lee 170 gr. F mould and a Winchester model 94 , 30-30 ... have done a lot of shooting with it at targets and load development ... haven't made a deer or hog hunt ...yet !
Gary

[GONRA]

GONRA hasa half-ass suggestion - if yer shootin' .45 acp CAST.
Just upgemix all yer scrap lead - cast 230 RN boolits, load 'em up 'EM UP AND cast away!

[MDKelley]

Since the Fryxell book talks about wheel weights being a great material for most bullets I picked up two more 5 gallon buckets of weights from a local shop. Talked a little to the shop owner and he mentioned that Michigan is one of the only states in our region where lead wheel weights are still legal. Figuring I will have around 200 lbs of wheel weights once I get through these and with the ones I had before. That should make quite a few bullets for me to start out.

I am about halfway through the Fryxell book, I think just into the "lessons learned" portion now.

[gwpercle]

MDKelly ,
... The best way to learn how to cast boolits ... Is to Cast Boolits ...
Keep On Keeping On !
:drinks:
Gary

[dverna]

Since the Fryxell book talks about wheel weights being a great material for most bullets I picked up two more 5 gallon buckets of weights from a local shop. Talked a little to the shop owner and he mentioned that Michigan is one of the only states in our region where lead wheel weights are still legal. Figuring I will have around 200 lbs of wheel weights once I get through these and with the ones I had before. That should make quite a few bullets for me to start out.

I am about halfway through the Fryxell book, I think just into the "lessons learned" portion now.

That book is priceless, and you are doing well to study it.

You are lucky to be getting WW's and if they do not have much zinc or steel get all you can. Long term, you need to find other sources of alloy. Range scrap is one source that is usually cheap but takes a bit of work.

I suggest a Lee 20 pound pot as you next investment. There are better units but the Lee is affordable and gets the job done. I have three pots...a Lee (never used but got it on sale), Lyman (nearly 50 years old) and a Master Caster. Add a thermometer next, and down the road add a PID controller. Casting is not an art...it is a science. The more you keep things consistent the better bullets you will produce. Nearly any crap will work for short range pistol plinking bullets. Rifle bullets to be used at 100 yards or farther are more challenging and as you drive for higher velocity is gets trickier. If you read posts by guys like Gibson, you will see no one is getting good results is using "mystery alloy" for rifle bullets. If you are lucky, and your "mystery alloy" works well, will you be able to replicate it? That is the huge advantage of knows alloys.

You have made a good start and good luck moving forward.

[canyon-ghost]

Channel iron makes a great mold! I made mine with a mig welder. Six inch wide, four cavity. But, then again, I was a factory welder.
Good Luck,
Ron

[varmintpopper]

To determine percentage of the different metals in Your casting mix try this, Find a Jewelry shop that buys gold, take a sample of your mix to them and ask if they will X-ray the sample and give You a readout of percentages. Some may charge You a small fee, but most will do it for free. With this info You can add lead, antimony, or Tin to make the mix of Your choice.

Good Shooting

Lindy

[MDKelley]

welded up a couple tonight, after finishing sorting the first bucket.

305085

I think it is 3 or 3.5 in wide, probably 6" long. Made about a 7.5 lb brick when I had just clamped plates on the end for a temporary mold. Hopefully that isn't too big... if so I can likely just weld a divider in the middle or bandsaw this in half and weld more endplates on it to make 4 block molds half that size.

[Shopdog]

Keep your lead separated,best you can. Dosen't have to be anything fancy.....

Been casting regularly since the mid '70's. In all that time never worried too much about lead stowage. 5 or so years ago gathered up "most" of it,left WW's in 5g buckets..... and made a 1/2way attempt towards organizing. Ended up with a wooden box arrangement,that reminds you of a row of hen(chicken) boxes. There's 4.... running from soft to hard. 1st bx is softer than range lead,2nd IS range scrap,3 is fortified range/WW....last is store bought super hard.

Along with the WW buckets,and a big pile of plumbing pipes N fittings. All the box stuff is in ingots. This system may not be perfect but can find what I'm after blindfolded. Good luck with your project.

[GhostHawk]

Yes, save your dross, your pot scrapings, your unknown bits.

I use this to "Start" the pot when I start a new melt. IE put it at the bottom and pile other lead alloys on top.

When it is all melted give it a good stir and scrape. Flux with sawdust if your going to. This should help bring some tin/lead oxides back into the melt.
Then scoop off anything that is not clean melted alloy.

I normally use 50% clip on Wheel Weights with 50% range scrape or soft lead. (lead pipe, flashing, pure plumbers lead ingot, etc) to which I add 1% Pewter or tin.
This makes a good all around alloy for pistol and lower speed rifle such as .30-30.

I also keep a container of pewter "coins" cast in a muffin tin and tin cast into 300 gr bullets for adding to a pot that I know is going to go to higher speed rifle bullets.
This lets me add just a little bit of "sweetener" to make those rifle boolits harder and shiny.

Your off to a good start. Keep it up.