.30-.357?

[Doughty]

No luck in the singleshot section so I'll try it here.

I've got a .30-.357 chambered Ruger #1; 1in 10 twist. I used a .300 BO reamer run in enough to use sized down .357 mag brass. I'm breech seating an Accurate 31-175 PB. I've been using AA#9 but am not getting a good burn. With Fed Magnum Small Pistol it works okay but changing to a standard small pistol primer leaves it looking like I'm using black powder and starts to lead immediately. So, right on the edge I'm thinking. Was thinking of trying AA#7, Blue Dot or HS-6. Wondering if anyone has been down this road before and has some good load data or any other pertinent advice?

Thanks in advance.

P.S. What's a good name for this cartridge? .30-.357 Blackout maybe?

[technojock]

What are you lubing it with? I shoot a .300 blackout Handirifle and I've use mostly Red Dot, 231 and Unique. I've been tumble lubing with Alox and haven't had any leading problems but I'm also keeping the velocity down to subsonic levels...

Tony
AKA Geezerbiker

[MT Gianni]

In the 30-38 special 5 gr of AA 5 or 7 gr of AA 7 work with 125 -150 gr bullets.

[Doughty]

technojock, so far I've been using Bullshop's Speed Green; because I've still got a lot of it.

MT Gianni, Am I correct that this is with fixed ammo? I don't know what the "case capacity" is with breech seated but for sure larger. Seven grains of AA#7 would be a place to start though. I'd like to get up to about 1400 fps.

Thanks for the replies.

[barrabruce]

I have the same case.
How fast are you looking for?
A 170 gn 315 clone with any srp and 50-50 bw and vas lubed with 3.6 grains bulleye works well.
I have very limited powders to play with.
I have been trying 11 grains of adi 2207 /h4198 with mag primers but not successful yet.

[Texas by God]

Forgive my ignorance, but by "breach seating"- are you placing a bullet in the throat then carefully chambering a charged case?
For what reason?
I think that wildcat has a name, but I'm not sure. A .30 Reese uses a .38 Special case- i think....With W296/H110 powder, it should get fairly close to 7.62x39 speeds.

Sent from my SM-A716U using Tapatalk

[barrabruce]

Schuetzen shooting uses breach seated bullets.

A random starline fire formed case was randomly plucked out of the box.
Measured 1.290" long my max is 1.295" has fouling from x? Loads never cleaned internally.
Case filled with Lee dipper scraped of with ruler once.

I get alliant bullseye 14.2 grains
Alliant 2400 21.1 grains.

Give or take variances and all that stuff.

I have no other powder you may have which I think would be common.

I wonder what a 300 blackout case holds?

I know it has more volume than a 32-20 case so 30-20 loads could be used.
Hard to find 150 -240 grn load data with any powders I have.

How does that bullet seat in your throat?
I can just get a 0.310" diameter in mine.
I’m starting to get better results with my 315 clone.
It may be different than yours thou.
Are you getting good engraving when seated?


I’m thinking of a 300blk out mould that fits to only the bottom of the case neck.
A bore rider would fit nice with about 0.400” on the rear.


I call mine 7.62x33r when anyone asks.
Sound exotic and some weird rare European thing.

I run mine mostly like a rook rifle with a pinch of powder and a Lee soupcan or a 150 grain.

Trying to get some heavies up to snuff with slow powder ,but it ain’t working to well yet.

[Doughty]

Texas by God Texas, Yes, "breech seating" is forcing a lubed bullet into the breech end of the barrel, usually with a breech seating tool, so that the bullet is completely into the grooves. If done correctly the bullet is then perfectly aligned with the barrel resulting in the likelihood of increased accuracy. The primed and charged case is then inserted into the chamber.

I thought of H110/296 but I think they might have the same problem as AA#9: poor ignition and burn.

barrabruce, in post #5 you mention 3.6 grains of bullseye, then in post #7 you say 14.2 grains of alliant bullseye. Is there a typo in there or am I missing something? I size the two bottom bands to .310. The bands above taper to .301. I get good engraving on all the bands.

[barrabruce]

On post#4 you stated you didn’t know the case capacity.

That’s what mine holds total volume . Not load

Yours?

[Jedman]

I also have a rifle chambered in basically the same cartridge but have never tried using breech seating with it.
As far as powders that have worked good for accuracy in similar sized cartridges and burned well I would recommend trying 2400 & 4227 they have been clean burning and accurate in cartridges with approx 50 to 75 % case fill.
Jedman

[Doughty]

barrabruce, Okay I'm with you now.

Jedman, Thanks, I'll add them to the list. I had tried 2400 in years past in the .30-30 breech seated. I gave up on it due to velocity fluctuations from temperature changes. Our first schuetzen match in Missoula this year was in April. Weather was snowing and temperature in the 30s. Our last, one this month, was hot dry and in the 90s. Still, worth a retry in a different cartridge.

[BLAHUT]

Try a mag primer and see if this helps clear you your incomplete burning ?? TRY A DIFFERENT LUBE??

[MT Gianni]

Doughty, this 30-38 special is also called the 30 Badger. There have been a few post here but not for quite a while regarding it. Length is set with the 30 Mauser die run to the base of a 39 special.

[LIMPINGJ]

Call it the 30 Badger Long

[Doughty]

I should have posted this at the start.

304553

The .30 Badger is formed with a .30 Mauser die and has a different taper/shoulder than mine which is formed with a .300 Blackout die on a .357 Mag case. I'm thinking the .30-.357 Blackout is the most descriptive name?

In the picture you can see, that when the bullet is breech seated, the actual case (chamber) capacity is quite a bit larger than it would be with a bullet seated in the case.

[barrabruce]

What are the 32 Miller short people using?
I think it is similar size.
Are you using a cork or plastic wad on the case mouth? Or one just off the powder.
I’d like to hear more of the results.

[Doughty]

I use a wad made of what I believe is called "Sill Seal". It is a blue foam about 3/16 thick. If you place one of these wads in a primed case and then fire that into a paper bag, you'll find a little pellet of ash about the size of a #9 shot. I load the case with about .100 distance between top of the powder column and the bottom of the wad.

I don't know anybody with a .32 Miller, don't know what would be used.

[jaysouth]

No luck in the singleshot section so I'll try it here.

I've got a .30-.357 chambered Ruger #1; 1in 10 twist. I used a .300 BO reamer run in enough to use sized down .357 mag brass. I'm breech seating an Accurate 31-175 PB. I've been using AA#9 but am not getting a good burn. With Fed Magnum Small Pistol it works okay but changing to a standard small pistol primer leaves it looking like I'm using black powder and starts to lead immediately. So, right on the edge I'm thinking. Was thinking of trying AA#7, Blue Dot or HS-6. Wondering if anyone has been down this road before and has some good load data or any other pertinent advice?

Thanks in advance.

P.S. What's a good name for this cartridge? .30-.357 Blackout maybe?

.30 Mag Cat. On a 38 spl case it is called 30 Reese or 30 badger and in 357 MAXIMUM case it is called 30 MAXcat.

[Gtek]

I thought the 30 Badger was on a 38 SP case, the 30 Reese on the 357 case and the Max Cat was the 357 Maximum case version. How about 30/357 RBO?

[Nueces]

Paco Kelly is known for doing a lot of work with a 357 case necked to 30. His design features a longer neck and a shallow shoulder as in the 32-20, all to accommodate cast bullets in lever guns. I have his original reamer.

This round is thoroughly discussed in his book “An American Heritage – Leverguns.” Out of print, but a helluva good read and worth the search. More current discussion on his site leverguns.com.

[Doughty]

Nueces, I went to that site but couldn't find anything. I guess my computer search skills are not up to snuff.

[Nueces]

Nueces, I went to that site but couldn't find anything. I guess my computer search skills are not up to snuff.

I haven't been on that site lately myself, but I could not just now find anything listed as pertaining to the 30/357 either. Last resort would be to surf the forum there.

The book is the best resource.

[Milky Duck]

so maybe try seating projectile like the 8mm mauser is...EG just in enough to hold it in place,1/8th inch sort of thing...no good if running around with them loose in your pockets but fine if in a plastic case until use.....

[Doughty]

Milky Duck, The rifle is a 12 pound bench rest rig used for schuetzen matches. Not a walkin' around gun. I did make up some dummy rounds with some different bullets. Would be a fun round in a lighter, slimmer rifle. With a light bullet it could substitute for a .22LR in hard times.

[Milky Duck]

well it surely is something more than just a bit different then LOL...
must be the modern equivilent of the .32/20 sort of...

[Kosh75287]

I guess you might get a better burn if you were to switch to a small rifle primer, but I wonder if your powder charge is too light to develop the best pressure for optimal burning. Since the rounds are breach-seated, there is no crimp to retard the bullet's forward progress and enable chamber pressures to elevate into ranges in which AA#9 burns best.
If you weigh a fired case that's been filled with water up to the base of the neck, then subtract the fired case's empty weight, that gives you case capacity for the round, when loaded conventionally. Since you are breech-seating bullets, however, you are, in effect, increasing case capacity, translating to lower chamber pressures and (putatively) bad powder burning.
Weighing the same unfired case when filled to the case mouth with water and dividing this result by that of the first case capacity gives you a ratio by which you can multiply starting charge weights to possibly adjust for the greater case capacity. Ordinarily, I'd be hesitant to recommend this maneuver, but since a breech-seated projectile has minimal resistance to forward motion, I would expect chamber pressures to remain in the "reasonable" range.
I do not know what your source for loading data is, so I leave it to your judgement as to how aggressively to increase the charge. As an example, if the starting load for a particular projectile, seated conventionally, is 14.0/2400, and the breech-seated capacity is greater by, say, 6%, the analogous starting load would be 14.8/2400. MY inclination would be to try 14.4/2400 first, THEN try the 14.8/2400 load.
Since you are using AA#9, I'm sure the number values will be different, but the approach would be the same. Just a thought...

[barrabruce]

I filled a case with adi 2207 and a fired adi 300 blackout case someone gave me at the range today.
The 30-357 mag holds 1.1 grains less powder.

I do size my cast bullets so they all sizes sit in the neck area.
This has to have an effect on powder capacity and pressures.
Adi recommends mags srp for there 300 blk loads.

I have had this problem a lot with slower powders and cast bullets plain based or paperpatched.
It seems like getting the pressure up to full burn is harder than jaxketed projectiles and I go a faster burn rate.

I shot this out of my 5lb open sighted 30-357 mag to day.
First shot a little high , rest with in an inch at 50yrds
Not bad for over a bag on the bench.
304601