Lee 310 in 44 mag rifle

[Armorer]

I have been working up loads for a 44 mag Handi Rifle with some Keith style 240 grain plain base with 2400 and IMR 4227. I have some 270 gr of the same profile and some of the Lee 310 gr that I want to try. I have been looking around and haven't as of yet found any load data for those Lee boolits. Lyman 50th has loads for a 300gr in a pistol but not for rifle. Ammo Guide has a couple of loads but once again those are for pistols.
Am I over thinking this and should just reduce by 10% and use the pistol load data? Suggestions?

[BLAHUT]

the rifle should be a stronger frame than the pistol? may be safe? cut back 20% with heaver billet?
run on coronagraph for fps then work up to what you want ??

[AlaskaMike]

Any load that is safe in a revolver will be just fine in your Handi Rifle.

That said, you can never go wrong by starting with the starting loads and working up.

[Armorer]

Thanks. I was concerned about pressure issues with the longer barrel.

[Armorer]

If anyone has any favorite loads with this bullet I'd be interested in your results.

[quilbilly]

I have that mold and have mostly retired it since I no longer hunt elk in the thick coastal jungles of the Pac NW. Nowadays I just use a gas checked 240 gr in my 444 at 44 mag velocities (1400-1650 fps) which will easily handle any black bear or deer at the distances I hunt at locally. I recently acquired a new 215 gr RF-pb mold at a garage sale. Yesterday, I tested and chronographed it with 10.7 gr of Red Dot giving an MV of 1375 fps (no leading in evidence with Lee Alox lube). That lighter boolit would be a fine, comfortable practice load for 44mag rifle and certainly work well on deer out to 100 yards. For many years in my muzzleloader with sabots, I used a 265 gr .429 SWC-pb launched at 1700 fps for elk and the last cow elk I harvested at 60 yards was lifted completely off the ground by the impact. Her live weight was estimated at 600# at the butcher shop. If you are not hunting moose, grizzlies, or very large game, maybe you don't need that big a boolit with its resulting recoil. That 310 is a fine looking hunting boolit, though, for thick country.

[Armorer]

Great story! I'm not sure I'm even going to hunt with it except maybe see how feral hogs react to it. I really just want to try and make it work in my rifle. The 240 Gr Keith I'm using is giving me decent results. It would certainly kill any East Texas deer I would come across. Mostly I'm just doing this for fun to see if it will work.
Thanks for the reply.

[quilbilly]

I forgot to mention that I bought that mold because I was helping my neighbor raise a herd of bison. The bull (our prize breeder) was a sweetheart with a good attitude but the cows could change personality on a dime so my neighbor and I would take turns watching each other's back. I figured the 310 from the 444 would at least slow down an 800# cow buffalo having a bad hair day. I never had to test it fortunately.

[Sgt H]

Something not yet mentioned is the twist rate in the rifle. Handi used to have 1 in 38, I think it has been changed to 1 in 20 on the newer ones. If yours is a 1 in 38 may not stabilize the 310's.

[Four-Sixty]

Not quite what you're asking for, but I am working with the Arsenal 434-310RF in a CVA Scout, a 44 Mag single shot rifle. I have had great luck with IMR4227. I am presently at 18.2 grains, but will explore going up to 21 grains. But, again, my 18.2 grain load is working pretty darn well. Only had the chance to test it out to 50 yards so far.

[DougGuy]

The advice to drop down 20% could be dangerous with certain slow burning powders that are favored for heavy boolits, H110 being one of them. You do NOT want to download H110/W296 below minimum starting charge weights.

The Lee 310 really shines with H110, you should be able to find this data easily since this is a very widely used boolit/powder combo. This is from Hodgdon, it's for a 300gr XTP j word but you can extrapolate the COA with the Lee 310 and make it work.

304189

Here is an excellent American Handgunner article detailing the comparison of seating depth with 300gr boolits in 44 Magnum loads.

https://americanhandgunner.com/handguns/getting-the-most-from-your-44-magnum-revolver/

This photo taken from the above article, shows both the XTP and the 300gr cast boolit seated .400" in the case, when the base of the boolit is seated to the same depth, as the two examples on the right are, you can safely interchange load data with the XTP and other boolits of the same weight without issue.

304190

Notice the example on the left, the boolit is seated MUCH deeper in the case than the others to the right of it, in this scenario you would be creating a VERY dangerous load by using the same charge weights as the longer COA would permit!

When people ask about interchanging bullets/boolits and load data, THIS is one of the most important details and also one easily overlooked..

[wilecoyote]

for what is worth, in .44mag. I have tried quite cautiously to go down with Vihtavuori N110 charges until 18 grains, half grain at time, behind 240 Lee g.c. cast without any problem.
quite mild plinking loads from my long bbl. S&W 29s., notwithstanding the same Viht. warnings.
having said this I do not want to teach anyone to do the same, or even less to do it with other powders but, in the absence of faster Viht. at hand, I would have no problem doing it again.

[technojock]

Something not yet mentioned is the twist rate in the rifle. Handi used to have 1 in 38, I think it has been changed to 1 in 20 on the newer ones. If yours is a 1 in 38 may not stabilize the 310's.

That's the reason I sold my .44 mag Handirifle. Cast bullet loads from the 1 in 38 barrel would shoot a pattern rather than a group.

Tony
AKA Geezerbiker

[upr45]

I use 19.9 gr H110 with the Lee 310gr with gas check and a soft lube seated in the rear crimp grove, it wprks great in my handi. f
For the rest of my 44 mags i seat in forward grove over 19.0gr H110.

[Sgt H]

Just to add a bit to this thread is groove diameter. Specs for .44 mag rifles are different (larger) than handguns, .431 vs .429. Seems many .44 mag rifles are .432-.433, even .434 and need fat boolits for accuracy. I suspect many folks having accuracy woes are using commercial cast boolits that are too small and too hard. You can often get away with undersize boolits if they are soft enough to obturate at the operating pressure of the ammo. It was not uncommon in the days of black powder for bullets to be undersize, but the hardest alloy used had a BHN of 10-11. That said 1 in 38 is usually good up to 270 grains or so but you generally have to push em' pretty hard. I have owned a number of .44 mag rifles over the years and currently only have one. It is a Ruger 77/44 stainless synthetic and has a 1 in 20 twist. The barrel slugs at .430 and shoots pretty well with .431 bullets which works out well as this is the size needed for the cylinder throats on my Redhawk. The 77/44 is a handy rifle for woods walking, hogs and foul weather deer hunting. Works well for deer even with the limited range of the .44, longest shot I have made on deer in the last decade was 130 yards, most 20-75 yards.

[TurnipEaterDown]

In the past I had fine success w/ the 44 310 Lee sized at 0.430" in a Marlin 1894 I bought new in 1991 that had microgroove rifling.
I cast them out of wheel weight & quenched, and they shot well loaded over healthy charges of W296. Supposedly the microgroove barrels do poorly w/ cast bullets, but it wasn't the case for me. Even with a bore that had so many tooling marks in it that it would give me days of blue patches when cleaning after shooting jacketed out of that gun.

I dug through old records I have, and saw that I shot them both at the long seated position (1.71) singly fed, and the short seated position out of the magazine tube.

In looking at current Lyman data, the loads I used readily exceeded their recommended (pressure tested) W296 powder charges, so I will not post what I used.

In my defense, I will say that the quenched WW I used instead of their 10:1 lead tin may well have altered the pressure curve, as my commonly used LEE loads with W296 gave speeds equivalent or less than WC820 loads I had with the same bullet, and a friend pressure tested those WC820 loads on his equipment showing pressures equivalent to 305 gr Buffalo Bore ammunition. Due to variability on lot numbers of surplus powder, I won't post those WC820 loads either, but will say that we ran much more than seems expected guesstimating off Lyman data. NOT a endorsement of exceeding published data, just an example indicating that quenched WW may potentially produce lower pressure than identical load w/ 10:1 alloy. Who knows, maybe other assumptions I have are not quite right, but what I know points me in that direction.

[Armorer]

Just to add a bit to this thread is groove diameter. Specs for .44 mag rifles are different (larger) than handguns, .

Ye sir, exactly what I found. Mine slugs at .432 I have had to have custom molds that drop at .433-.434 and have had good luck out to 50 yds and mediocre at 100 yds with 2400. Working on loads with 4227 right now. Those Lee 310 boolits definitely drop small so I had a friend powder coat them which increases their diameter nicely.

[Armorer]

Great information. Thank you very much! This is more or less what I was looking for when asking my initial question.

[jgt]

4227 can be downloaded like 2400. The ball powders like 296 are the ones you need to stick to load data with.