SAA Not Holding Half Cock Position

[Finster101]

I have a Colt New Frontier in 44-40 that I took to the range today. Fired 36 rounds of cowboy loads so nothing hot at all. Loading the last six rounds the hammer did not want to lock in the half cock position. I looked at it once I got home and it is hit and miss as to whether it will stay or not. I certainly don't trust it to. Is this a common problem? What should I look for?

[Mk42gunner]

I'm not an expert on single actions at all, but I would take a close look at the halfcock notch on the hammer and the sear nose of the trigger.

Could be either or both of those or even something else. It is a fairly simple machine inside though.

Robert

[Catshooter]

How long ago was it's last deep cleaning (detail stripped)? The top of the trigger is what engages the half-cock and is quite thin and narrow. Doesn't take much to keep it from entering it's slot.

Or something can be loose/broken. Only one way to find out.

[Winger Ed.]

It might just be dirty.

[stubshaft]

A lot of SAA that were used for quick draw had the half cock notch ruined by fanning the hammer.

[17nut]

You got the special "Alec Baldwin" edition ;-)

[Finster101]

Thanks for the replies. It has not been cleaned in a while and never field stripped. I bought it new so I know the history. The pistol has maybe 300 rounds total through it. The hammer has never been fanned. I just rarely ever shoot it. I'll try cleaning it well as I do that after shooting them anyway, just did not get to it yesterday after the range. Had to take advantage of two dry days in a row to get the grass cut.

[Noah Zark]

It could be dirty as others mention.

However, if you use a finger to hold the trigger forward with just a little force, a pound or two, does the hammer then always catch in the half cock notch?

There is a U shaped leaf spring, generally a flat stamping (sometimes a round wire aftermarket replacement) that is located in the lower frame in front of the trigger and beneath the cylinder, held in place by a large diameter headed screw. One leg provides force to the cylinder stop/bolt that engages the stop notches in the cylinder, and the other spring leg is the trigger reset spring that holds the trigger forward.

I suspect that the trigger reset leg has broken, a common problem, or the screw holding the U spring in place is loose. Replacements are available from Wolff Gunsprings.

You need to remove the trigger guard and grip frame, which requires removal of the mainspring, and paying attention to the hand and it's spring. It's not difficult, but I recommend you watch at least 3 different YT vids on SAA and clone disassembly, and invest in hollow ground screwdriver tips to fit the screws. Disassembly is a bit out of the scope of an answer here without pics I don't have, despite reparing dozens of SAAs in 45+ years.

And Qs, PM me.

Noah

[Finster101]

Mr. Zark, I will certainly give that a try. Thank you. I may be reaching out to you by PM in a day or so once I have a chance to take a closer look. It does seem odd that a spring would break with such a low round count, doesn't it? I bought the pistol in 81-82 can't remember for sure.

[Noah Zark]

I've replaced a U spring in one unfired SAA that was broken out of the box, after sitting in a safe for 18-20 years.

Another way to look at it, your low round count spring has been stressed 24/7/365(6) for 40 years. Even at rest, uncocked, the trigger reset leg is loaded.

Sure, springs fail by fatigue caused by cyclic loading and unloading, but these stamped U-springs have a reputation for breaking. The wireform replacements, not so much.

Noah

[elk hunter]

The bolt-stop/trigger spring in SSA's has always been a weak point but, why would it hold in the full-cock notch and not the half-cock notch if the spring is the problem? Same for the trigger tip. I suspect something is wrong with the half-cock notch. Broken/ dirty? Let us know what you find.

[Rapier]

1982-3 gun never stripped and cleaned, sounds more like the original oil has turned into goo. Strip it down, clean it, re-oil it, examine for wear and tear, if none visible, re-assemble, test for function.

[Noah Zark]

The bolt-stop/trigger spring in SSA's has always been a weak point but, why would it hold in the full-cock notch and not the half-cock notch if the spring is the problem? Same for the trigger tip. I suspect something is wrong with the half-cock notch. Broken/ dirty? Let us know what you find.


1982-3 gun never stripped and cleaned, sounds more like the original oil has turned into goo. Strip it down, clean it, re-oil it, examine for wear and tear, if none visible, re-assemble, test for function.

You both might be right.

Noah

[Finster101]

I checked and with slight forward pressure on the trigger the half cock sets firmly. For the price I will go ahead and order a spring kit from Wolf and educate myself on how to disassemble it while waiting for them. Might as well have parts on hand rather than leaving it apart for a week or so. When I first got this pistol it lived in an arms room for about 3 years until I ETS'd from Germany.

[El Bibliotecario]

...and educate myself on how to disassemble it

https://www.amazon.com/Colt-single-action-revolvers-manual-volumes/dp/B0006RVZG0

[Electrod47]

It might just be dirty.

Plus its a common problem, and why the practice of loading only 5 rounds has been around for about 125 years.

[Finster101]

Well, I got it sorted out. After watching a couple of vids I tore it down and gave it a good cleaning. Not that it was very dirty to begin with. Again, it only has maybe 300 rounds through it, all smokeless. I have always cleaned the barrel, cylinder and what is exposed of the frame, just never pulled anything apart. If anything, I would say it was a lack of lubrication. Seemed very dry on the internals. Now that I have it out I will probably shoot it a bit more, it was fun. I have 3 cans of 3f. I might get adventurous. Thanks for all the suggestions and tips. I just did not know much about this platform.

[Noah Zark]

Glad you got it sorted out.

Noah

[Winger Ed.]

the practice of loading only 5 rounds has been around for about 125 years.

Hmm,,,
I always figured it was that if the hammer was down and wasn't on the half cock notch, or the notch was damaged/broken off,
you could hit the back of the hammer and make it discharge. Or,,, if maybe the original ones didn't have the notch.

And maybe that was part of the reason why inertia firing pins came along.

[DougGuy]

Plus its a common problem, and why the practice of loading only 5 rounds has been around for about 125 years.

If you're a John Wayne fan, you will notice the scene in his room at the boarding house where he loads the 6th cartridge and very carefully lowers the hammer before he goes over to the Metropol and engages in his last gunfight.

[M-Tecs]

Hmm,,,
I always figured it was that if the hammer was down and wasn't on the half cock notch, or the notch was damaged/broken off,
you could hit the back of the hammer and make it discharge. Or,,, if maybe the original ones didn't have the notch.

And maybe that was part of the reason why inertia firing pins came along.

The half cock is primarily for loading and unloading.

https://www.bevfitchett.us/colt-army-revolver/hammer-positions.html

https://www.rockislandauction.com/riac-blog/how-to-function-check-your-colt-single-action-army

https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?415274-1873-revolver-question

Todays practices are that non-transfer bar 1873's today are not carried with 6 chambers loaded. In the down position the firing pin is resting on the primer. The safe notch does provide some additional safety but a hard blow to the hammer can shear it off or bumping the hammer slightly will disengage the hammer from the safety nock and it's back to resting on the primer.

Back in the day the military manuals instructed to load all 6 chambers but they also used full flap holsters.

[warren5421]

Sam Colts loading instructions from 1835 to his death was to load all chambers. I think the load 5 is an early gun writers idea.

[William Yanda]

Sam Colts loading instructions from 1835 to his death was to load all chambers. I think the load 5 is an early gun writers idea.

OR, perhaps the solution found by users over the years.

[35 Whelen]

Sam Colts loading instructions from 1835 to his death was to load all chambers. I think the load 5 is an early gun writers idea.

Agreed. It's only fairly recently that society, shooters included, have sought to insulate themselves from their own carelessness.

35W

[alfadan]

Ive stated before; I think someone such as a cavalryman may have only loaded five, but going into battle loaded all six as the gun falling on a loaded chamber would be the least of his worries.

[M-Tecs]

Ive stated before; I think someone such as a cavalryman may have only loaded five, but going into battle loaded all six as the gun falling on a loaded chamber would be the least of his worries.

The training manuals of the time stated load all six but they used full flap holsters. In the early to mid-70 Dad was a member of a 7th Calvary re-enactment group. They had original training and drill manuals plus original cookbooks. I've had calvary stew same as it done in 1870's. I load about 50K 45 Colt and 10k to 15K 45/70 for them.

[Jackrabbit1957]

Next time you detail strip the pistol look at the half cock notch with a magnifier, it should show a clean edge and actually be a shallow slot for the trigger nose to fit into. Do the same with the trigger nose, neither one should be burred or have chunks or chips missing. The best thing on the springs would be replace them with music wire torsion type springs. They don't break and the gun will be completely different when it's set up properly. Watch the muzzleloader section as I will be posting a revolvo being tuned shortly.

[alfadan]

The training manuals of the time stated load all six but they used full flap holsters. In the early to mid-70 Dad was a member of a 7th Calvary re-enactment group. They had original training and drill manuals plus original cookbooks. I've had calvary stew same as it done in 1870's. I load about 50K 45 Colt and 10k to 15K 45/70 for them.

Do you happen to have any small arms training manuals of the time or any links to online versions? I'd be very interested to read some.

[M-Tecs]

Do you happen to have any small arms training manuals of the time or any links to online versions? I'd be very interested to read some.

I haven't seen them since the late 70's when the group disbanded. Most of the members have passed.

[Finster101]

Next time you detail strip the pistol look at the half cock notch with a magnifier, it should show a clean edge and actually be a shallow slot for the trigger nose to fit into. Do the same with the trigger nose, neither one should be burred or have chunks or chips missing. The best thing on the springs would be replace them with music wire torsion type springs. They don't break and the gun will be completely different when it's set up properly. Watch the muzzleloader section as I will be posting a revolvo being tuned shortly.



I did order the replacement springs just in case, but got antsy and did not wait for them to arrive before digging into the issue. Once I had it apart and could see the problem, I chose to just reassemble it with the original springs. As little as I shoot this pistol it could be years before it needs detail stripped again. I will watch for post on tuning though. Thanks again to everyone for pointing me in the right direction.

[ubetcha]

You got the special "Alec Baldwin" edition ;-)

That was going to my reply also.😊 As an after thought,why is he still out and about and not in the slammer?

[Winger Ed.]

As an after thought, why is he still out and about and not in the slammer?


Jail and prison is only for the little people.
He's able to afford too much justice for that.

[Jackrabbit1957]

I did order the replacement springs just in case, but got antsy and did not wait for them to arrive before digging into the issue. Once I had it apart and could see the problem, I chose to just reassemble it with the original springs. As little as I shoot this pistol it could be years before it needs detail stripped again. I will watch for post on tuning though. Thanks again to everyone for pointing me in the right direction. I will be posting some more stuff on tuning sigle actions in the near future. Look for it in the muzzleloading section as I only do cap and ball revolvers. If you have a specific question don't hesitate to ask.