reloadiing 44S&W Russian

[bigbear]

Anyone know of source for Pyrodex loads for this round, for usein antique S&W 44 DA First Model. Thanks:drinks:

[missionary5155]

Good morning
I have been shooting 44 Russiam 20 years now and Pyrodex is easy.
Figure out where the bottom of your boollit is gonna be in the case. Fill case with "P" to that mark. Dump it out and figure how much was in there and add 10% by volume. Write that down. Load your boolit compressing the "P" and fire. This works with 180-245 grain boolits.. BUT you must remeasure for each boolit as the base extends into the cartridge differently. I shoot S&W #3 single and double action guns... all work the same. Regular Large Pistol Primers.
If you do not have "P" try Cartridge. But velocity will be lower. Those are the only two types I have used. Fun Cartridge !!!
Mike God Bless you.

[bigbear]

what technique do you use to figure this 10% by volume thing?I was thinking of one of graduated cyliders I used in chemistry classes a long time ago...is there some special volumetric device one uses for this? If you haven't guessed by now , I have never used blackpowder before!

[missionary5155]

Good morning BigBear
Sorry about that.... Black powder and Pyrodex are somewhat BULKY and this does not have to be real exact. If your 10% is really 8% or 12 % that is not going to cause any damage. Just be consistant with the load.
Do you have a set of LEE dippers? Or an Ajustable Black powder measure ? Or a syringe ? Dump the powder in any one of these and see how much there is. Add 10%.... if you have none of these you can measure the actual space the case was filled and add 10% in liniar distance. It wont be much... about a 1/16 ". Again be consistant.
If you do not have any "scoops" you can make one from an old pen top, cartrige case, anything that will hold that much powder and be usable to dump the charge into the case. Remember you can file down a scoop that is to big.
I would load 10 cartriges and see how it shoots. I would shoot all the cartriges from one cylinder. Use the same aiming point EVERYSHOT. You want to find out how accurate the load is through your Barrel.
You may find 5% compresion is better accuracy. You may find out a wad under the boolit helps. Maybe a thick wad. But whatever do NOT leave any airspace in the case. Blackpowder and Pyro work best with some compression. NO airspace ever !!! Once you have the proper or best load write that info in a notebook. Dedicate at least a page for that revolver.
Bullet lube.... Do NOT use regular lubes with PYRO or Blackpowder. Straight Crisco would be OK Better is a mix some Crisco + Beeswax (not Parafin). We need to stay away from Petrolium based items. I use Olive oil + beeswax here about 50/50. No lube on the boolit bottom.
After shooting drop your cases into water with a squirt of dishwashing soap. A quart plastic bottle will be plenty for now. There are some nasty "Salts" that will eat your brass. Later Swab out the barrel and cylinder with water and then oil. Wipe of any powder residue from the revolver... and oil. Knock out the primers and Clean the cases with a brush.
That should get you going. It may all seem like a hassle... but it works well. You can do the same with Blackpowder. A bit cheaper and more smoke. And REAL ! I use both Black and Pyro in my 44 Russians. If I am going to shoot more than 30 I deffinatly go Pyro. Most horsemen, pilgrims, explorers, trappers, seldom fired their weapons more than 5 times... thus no problem with Blackpowder build up. Buff hunters fired a bunch and would swab out the barrel every few shots also... if there was time.
Do not be surprised when you actualy see the boolit in the air flying to a 25 yard target. 44 Russians even with Pyro are not Powerhouse high Velocity pistols. Rather animic by todays standards. But a soft lead 200 or 245 grain boolit at 650 fps is still gonna hurt real bad in the soft parts of the body.
Mike

[northmn]

What is recommended is about it. You can buy BP lubes like Lyman gold or SPG which should last awhile. Some claim PDX is actually more corrosive than black. I would take care in cleaning afterwards. One thing nice about cartridge guns is that you can see if they are clean. I have been having good luck with radiator antifreeze as a cleaner. Seems to help keep out rust as it has built in anticorrosives.

Northmn

[cajun shooter]

A easy way without the math. Take a 1/4 in dowel stick. Lay it beside the bullet you are using, and mark the distance from the base to the crimp groove. I use a Sharpie. Fill the case with your chosen powder until you see your mark just above the rim of the case. Record the amout ,set your measure and load away. Takes away the math and leaves more time for shooting.

[bigbear]

Dies are on the way. I'm buying 300 cast bullets from a guy who supplied them to the guy I bought the revolver from. I thought the benefit of Pyrodex was that it was not corrosion prone ,unlike blackpowder. Any clarification on this before I go searching for propellant this weekend?And why the warning about regular lubes on the bullets ( stay away from petroleum products comment above)? This is my first venture into black powder so pardon my ignorance.

[Boerrancher]

I don't use pyrodex except for the pellets in my inline, and as soon as they are gone I will be using strictly Black in the inline. I use to shoot a lot of Pyro in my cap and ball revolvers, and it was a PITA to clean up. The guys here got me started shooting Real Black in my 45-70, and I will never shoot Pyro again. I use ballistol mixed with water 7 parts water to 1 part ballistol by volume. Soak 2 patches in it and run it through the bore followed by 2 dry patches, and then I patch saturated in any light gun oil, I use Hoppe's No 9, bore solvent as my light oil simply because It is very light, and has banana oil in it which works real well to prevent rust, and corrosion.

Petrol based lubes have a tendency to combined with the carbon residue left from the fouling. Under the heat and pressure the hydro-carbons in the petrol pick up some of the free carbons from the combustion process of the black powder forming a substance akin to what you would find in the Le Brae Tar Pits. Lanolin is another oil that will work well as a Black Powder lube.

Best wishes from the Boer Ranch,

Joe

[richbug]

Dies are on the way. I'm buying 300 cast bullets from a guy who supplied them to the guy I bought the revolver from. I thought the benefit of Pyrodex was that it was not corrosion prone ,unlike blackpowder. Any clarification on this before I go searching for propellant this weekend?And why the warning about regular lubes on the bullets ( stay away from petroleum products comment above)? This is my first venture into black powder so pardon my ignorance.

Pyrodex is every bit as corrosive as black powder. Why anyone would choose to use it is a mystery to me(maybe cost and availability, I bought some for $5 a pound).

[northmn]

As to the lube. When using the wrong lube in my 45-70 I found a very hard fouling in the last 12 inches of the barrel and the rifle would not stay on a 18 inch target paper at 100 yards. With the right lube it shoots very well. There are more lube concoctions than can be named but they all keep the fouling soft enough to permit accurate shooting. I have had success stiffening up homemade lube with parafin, but generally use SPG as I really do not shoot enough to use up a lot of lube. One of the advantages of SPG is that it does work with smokeless so that I just leave it in my lubricator. As a point of interest, the 44 Russion was considered a very accurate pistol cartridge by target shooters in its day.

Northmn

[missionary5155]

A easy way without the math. Take a 1/4 in dowel stick. Lay it beside the bullet you are using, and mark the distance from the base to the crimp groove. I use a Sharpie. Fill the case with your chosen powder until you see your mark just above the rim of the case. Record the amout ,set your measure and load away. Takes away the math and leaves more time for shooting.

Hey This will work ! I once told a feller "Eyeball it" without realizing his eyeballs were not calibrated. He was rather upset when things went out of specs and informed me I was something to do with the posterior of a rancid mule. So I decided when people up front say I have no experience to be a bit more cautious.
Mike God Bless you.

[Grapeshot]

Black Powder, Pyrodex, Pinacle, American Pioneer Powder all work well in the .44 Russian. I prefer Goex's Pinacle 3Fg as it will give a little more veocity and is easier to clean up.

But, to each his own.

[bigbear]

:???:I've got Lee dies, cast bullets (246gr) black powder. Ordered brass funnel from Buffalo arms, guy told me I needed wads also, they were cheap so I got them. Is it o.k. to use them as I didn't see any mention of them anywhere in the things I've read? But there are numerous warnings to leaveno dead air space in my loads.:confused:

[missionary5155]

Good morning With Black in the 44 Russian I never use any wad. There just is not enough space to loose with wads. With that 246 boolit you are not going to have much room for much Black.

[Springfield]

When you get done with those 246 grainers you might want to check out some lighter bullets. Leaves more room for powder for a better boom! www.whyteleatherworks sells 45 Blackpowder bullets in 165, 200 and 250 grains, all designed for real BP. Look under "accessories". This Big Lube(tm) design holds more lube so the barrel should foul out less and make for easier cleanup as well.

[bigbear]

A easy way without the math. Take a 1/4 in dowel stick. Lay it beside the bullet you are using, and mark the distance from the base to the crimp groove. I use a Sharpie. Fill the case with your chosen powder until you see your mark just above the rim of the case. Record the amout ,set your measure and load away. Takes away the math and leaves more time for shooting.

O.K., I've got brass, proper cast bullets, Goex FFFg powder, large pistol mag primers, dies, now I need to get an adjustable black powder measure. is that a brass thigamajig about the size of a cigar or is it something that looks like my smokeless powder measure made out of brass? Where do I get one? thanks!

[cajun shooter]

bigbear, The Bp measures that I use are regular measures with metal reservoir and brass drum. One is made by Lyman and one by RCBS. I like the Lyman best. There have been test of late that show where they were unable to ignite BP with an electrical spark. They said that BP cannot be set off with static spark. I'm 62 and from the old school and therefore use the measures meant for BP. I know of many who use a standard measure with out fear. Stay in your own comfort zone. If you load on a Dillon they have the adapters to use a different measure. The lyman measure can be purchased at most supply houses or as I said use your smokeless. Later David

[bigbear]

Thanks, I'll look for a lyman, I think Buffalo arms sells them, so much for a new rifle scope:(