43 Mauser barrel over heated

[Gobeyond]

I used new bullets at 448 they were and 480 grain. They had nasa lube 4 grooves, a postell bullet it was, from the bull shop. I bought a 100, only place had a full 448 for me. Thought sure this is what I needed. 73 gr of 1fg, fired fairly far apart and cleaned with Thompson center cleaning patches every shot. I had a clean barrel. So why would it overheat so bad in the morning that I needed a damp cloth and time too cool her.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

Better slug your barrel and be sure of the bore diameter.

DG

[Gobeyond]

Better slug your barrel and be sure of the bore diameter.

DG

The bore is 433 and groove 454. Could it be the weight of the bullet.? It’s a model 1871 not 71/84

[Winger Ed.]

I shoot a few BP rounds in my Marlin CB in .45-70.
It might be my imagination,
but I'd swear that the BP 'single F' gets the barrel hotter and much sooner than the other powders I use with the same boolit.
My smokeless loads are in the middle of what's listed in the Lyman book for IMR 4198 and 3031.

[indian joe]

I shoot a few BP rounds in my Marlin CB in .45-70.
It might be my imagination,
but I'd swear that the BP 'single F' gets the barrel hotter and much sooner than the other powders I use with the same boolit.
My smokeless loads are in the middle of what's listed in the Lyman book for IMR 4198 and 3031.

anybody used to shooting smokeless loads will be surprised (a lot !!!) at the heat generated by blackpowder loads specially from 45/70 on up - barrels get real hot real fast if you hook into it a bit-------------------

[ascast]

Are you sure the bore is 433 ? sounds small by about 010. I think black will heat up a barrel rather quick.

[Dan Cash]

Black powder makes barrels hot very quickly. It has little or nothing to do with the size of bullet. You make no comment about accuracy.

[tmanbuckhunter]

A 10 shot string after 5 sighters in a silhouette match has my #4 douglas so hot I can't touch it. BP burns hot, especially a quality BP like swiss. If accuracy was respectable, and you had no leading or other issues, then you really have nothing to worry about.

[indian joe]

A 10 shot string after 5 sighters in a silhouette match has my #4 douglas so hot I can't touch it. BP burns hot, especially a quality BP like swiss. If accuracy was respectable, and you had no leading or other issues, then you really have nothing to worry about.

this!!!!!

[Gobeyond]

this!!!!!

Thanks for your replies. I’m surprised. All saying the same thing. The 480 gr. Is ok. No leading, it groups. I like the bullet.
Yah I can’t touch it! Bad for the steel? It’s 433 all right. It’s different because it’s not a 71/84.

[indian joe]

I shoot a few BP rounds in my Marlin CB in .45-70.
It might be my imagination,
but I'd swear that the BP 'single F' gets the barrel hotter and much sooner than the other powders I use with the same boolit.
My smokeless loads are in the middle of what's listed in the Lyman book for IMR 4198 and 3031.

hotter than other black powders ???? or Fg versus finer FFg , FFFg ? ------ could be ........

for sure black will heat the barrel way more quicker than any smokeless load

[John in PA]

Agree with those who stated that you have no worries. I've shot N-SSA competition with musket, carbine, and Henry rifle for 30 years. 10-15 rounds in fairly rapid succession makes the barrel too hot to comfortably hold. Always. And it does absolutely no harm to the barrel. You'd have to heat it RED to bother it. You're rounds would cook off in the barrel LONG before you got enough heat to alter the steel in any fashion. You're using the gun exactly as it was intended to be used. Enjoy the heck out of it! [smilie=l:

[Gobeyond]

Agree with those who stated that you have no worries. I've shot N-SSA competition with musket, carbine, and Henry rifle for 30 years. 10-15 rounds in fairly rapid succession makes the barrel too hot to comfortably hold. Always. And it does absolutely no harm to the barrel. You'd have to heat it RED to bother it. You're rounds would cook off in the barrel LONG before you got enough heat to alter the steel in any fashion. You're using the gun exactly as it was intended to be used. Enjoy the heck out of it! [smilie=l:

Thanks, for the vote of confidence. Just your experience goes a long way. Do you clean between thos 15 shots?
I think too much lube can heat it up too. I was swabbing with bore butter with a couple bullets and got better accuracy. My fouling is so dry bullet lube like nasa or spg is not enough to make it liquid. Schuetzen, sticks too. Sometimes I swab after every shot. Then I feel confident and it groups. I get it around the muzzle and in the middle. Fouling can cause friction too, it seems.

[Castaway]

Your barrel getting hot is normal. Fire 5 rounds of 45 Colt is a hurry and you’ll have trouble holding your revolver to eject the empty cases. A couple things come to mind on your fouling issue; the temp and humidity of the day you were shooting. Hot dry days test the best lubes and fouling can get in the way of things. The other thing is the size of your lube grooves. Bigger is better to a point. I don’t know anything about NASA lube, but If SPG wasn’t working, I suspect one and maybe both conditions are the root of your problem. I’m also not sure what you mean by making the fouling liquid. Under the best conditions, fouling will be “goopy” and soft, and not liquid. Accuracy is a function of consistency, each shot with the same conditions as the one before and one after. Wiping or blow tubing after each shot will help. If wiping, after each shot, try a wet patch, then a dry patch. If fouling is extra heavy that day, two wets and a dry. Everyone has their favorite to wipe with, mine is Ballistol and water, 1:10.

[toot]

Dan Cash, you are true in the heating up reply. if any one has shot BP loads in a cartridge or muzzle loading, shot gun, it will become very hot to the touch after very few firing's. it is no concern.

[SteveOKo922]

My 71/84 starts to walk low right after 3 rounds. Thin forend and the barrel being affixed to the front barrel band plays havoc. It's a two shot string rifle. Very temperamental keep that in mind.

[Gobeyond]

My 71/84 starts to walk low right after 3 rounds. Thin forend and the barrel being affixed to the front barrel band plays havoc. It's a two shot string rifle. Very temperamental keep that in mind.

Is it the fouling? Do you clean every shot. I need to make my 71 hunter, free float.
I’ve had it do five shots as is. Or three shots at 100 or 25. I’m not all that consistent in the making of ammo, but like consistent grouping. Some of it seems like luck, but I have to go back and see what I did and repeat that! Spent a lot of time cleaning bore, a lot of time loading cartridges with a lot of all over the place but on paper. That is good but not very fulfilling. Time to repeat the best loads.

[indian joe]

Is it the fouling? Do you clean every shot. I need to make my 71 hunter, free float.
I’ve had it do five shots as is. Or three shots at 100 or 25. I’m not all that consistent in the making of ammo, but like consistent grouping. Some of it seems like luck, but I have to go back and see what I did and repeat that! Spent a lot of time cleaning bore, a lot of time loading cartridges with a lot of all over the place but on paper. That is good but not very fulfilling. Time to repeat the best loads.

When they walk like that I dont believe its the fouling - its a common enough problem with tube magazine guns -tie ups between magazine, barrel , forend wood - I have an 1876 Uberti does it - if I settle down and dont mess about the first three will group nice, then it starts, otherwise need to keep the shot cadence slow enough to keep it on point.

[Gobeyond]

@indian joe I’ve been watching your posts. Your from Australia aren’t you? I guess you don’t get to be a boolit master w/o knowing something. My gun is not tube fed, it’s a single shot, but it does walk. It does it’s best work usually the first three shots. To get it to come back I lube between shots with bore butter. This makes the fouling goopy. Then I can get another decent group. The first three are on a fairly clean barrel.

I appreciate your views on the heating up process. One less concern. If I’d have kept the gun…. I could have gone farther with you and the others. This site is a great source for those on this path. I tasted some of the rewards and the spirit of you all. But the God who brought me back to Him calls me to somewhere else in this hobby. Got a deal I couldn’t refuse and he really wants everything about my rifle and extras.

Jesus loves you and wants you to have the joy of following him. Nothing weird about it. He died just like our army veterans and first responders to ensure our freedom to go to heaven and lead a good life. But Jesus goes to eternal life. Gods bless you my friend and I hope he finds you.

[uscra112]

Not being a black-powder shooter, I'm totally ignorant of this heating issue. Only BP gun I've shot much is a Ruger Old Army. Six rounds quick, than five minutes to reload. I've never noticed that the gun got particularly hot.

The old Schuetzen men used to fire 100 rounds per match. How did they cope?

How did the soldiers using the 71/84 cope?

[indian joe]

Not being a black-powder shooter, I'm totally ignorant of this heating issue. Only BP gun I've shot much is a Ruger Old Army. Six rounds quick, than five minutes to reload. I've never noticed that the gun got particularly hot.
yeah cap guns dont seem to be a huge problem - most of the heat goes out the end - but back to the point - -it seems to not take much heat to get enough distortion in some guns to move point of impact - "walking on the target" -

The old Schuetzen men used to fire 100 rounds per match. How did they cope?

just guessin here - smallish calibres (32/40 was popular - yes?) - good solid barrel - slow shot cadence - did they clean between shots?

How did the soldiers using the 71/84 cope?
how often did they rattle off more than ten to fifteen in an engagement? - were gloves part of their kit? - if it was me out there - first lull in proceedings I reckon I pour a cup of water down ole betsy's throat to clean and cool for the next round

legend has it the barrels of Nelson Story's men got red hot ( a figure of speech maybe?) plonking 50/70 rounds into indians .

[uscra112]

Legend has it the buffalo hunters used to pee down their barrels. Was politely put that they did it to clean, but . . . . . . .?

[Gobeyond]

A good question. Hand guards?

[Gobeyond]

Thanks guys. Jesus loves you!

[SteveOKo922]

Is it the fouling? Do you clean every shot. I need to make my 71 hunter, free float.
I’ve had it do five shots as is. Or three shots at 100 or 25. I’m not all that consistent in the making of ammo, but like consistent grouping. Some of it seems like luck, but I have to go back and see what I did and repeat that! Spent a lot of time cleaning bore, a lot of time loading cartridges with a lot of all over the place but on paper. That is good but not very fulfilling. Time to repeat the best loads.

The design is flawed. Germans accepted it knowing full well the foreend impingement, thin stock and the bolt handle as the locking lug would cause inconsistency. Use 1f or 1.5f to avoid the "bannana" effect. Shoot slow and you'll be happy

[Der Gebirgsjager]

I suspect that this led to the invention of handguards! :grin:

305441

DG

[uscra112]

Remember that the military minds that were buying these Mausers weren't far removed from the smoothbore muzzleloader stage, where tactics had evolved into masses of men firing a volley or two at each other, then charging through the smoke with bayonets fixed. Heating of the barrels was thus not an issue.

Ever wonder why military uniforms of the age were so brightly colored?

[indian joe]

Remember that the military minds that were buying these Mausers weren't far removed from the smoothbore muzzleloader stage, where tactics had evolved into masses of men firing a volley or two at each other, then charging through the smoke with bayonets fixed. Heating of the barrels was thus not an issue.

Ever wonder why military uniforms of the age were so brightly colored?


military stupidity! nice bright colour tunic then draw a big white X across the front with two belts - all is missing is the arrow that says shoot here
Then line em up in an open paddock at fourty yards and volley fire into the ranks
If you can think of anything dumber ....I'll wait.