New BP Loader

[Chief TC]

Hello everyone. Just about to reload BP for the first time for my M1888 TD after reading Wolf's book. I have tried to read as much as possible here in these forums as well to have a thorough understanding how to do load development. Of course, it seems no matter how much we read, we still have questions, so thanks in advance to all who are kind enough to reply.

I'll be starting with the M1882 cartridge since my rifle and the Buffington sights were designed for this load and then I'll try them in my Pedersoli 1874 Sharps too. Wolf calls for GOEX 2F but I was only able to find Swiss 1.5. I read several threads about how many grains folks work up and is anywhere from 60-81 gr. And I read some use wads and some do not. I know that one needs to start somewhere and then adjust to see what works best.

My question is where do I start with grains and compression for the Swiss 1.5. If i had the GOEX 2F I would just do exactly as Wolf directs - 70 gr and compress the powder based on the proper bullet seating and crimp. Bullet base is directly on top of powder. Is starting with 70 gr of 1.5 a good place to start and how many loads do you all do up to test and evaluate the load? Many thanks.

[Malheur]

Greetings, Blackpowder is efficient, but not that efficient to notice a difference between say 68 grains and 68.5 grains for example. I start loading by volume; fill the prepared case from a “long” drop tube with say 2FFg to where the base of the bullet will just touch the card wad or compressed powder when seated. In my experience, black powder likes a bit of compression to shoot most accurately. If you want a smaller charge, experiment with case fillers that will keep the powder in the case compressed. Usually by following this method I realize an accurate load quickly.

[BLAHUT]

I GAVE UP ON BLACK AVABILITY LOT NUMBERS I WENT TO BLACKHORN209 I STARTED WITH 1/2 OF LOAD 45/70 SO I STARTED WITH 35 grs AND SEEN WHAT THE LOAD DID? NO AIR SPACE IN LOAD, USED CORK, PAPER AND A PLASTIC PUNCHED CARD WADS WITH A SLIGHT COMPRESSION TO FILL AIR SPACE, I PUT A PAPER CARD WAD ON TOP OF POWDER UNDER BULLET, ALL WAYS, WITH THE CORECT POWDER COLLOM THIS GIVES ME A SURFACE TO COMPRESS WITH, PROTECTS THE BULLET FLAT BASE, THE PLASIIC WAD ACTS LIKE A CLEANER ROUND< I USE A COMPERSSION DIE, NOT THE BULLET> I WAS TRYING TO GET TO 1200fps OR A TAD LESS> DID THE SAME WITH MY 45/60 LOAD>> THE 1200 fps GAVE ME A STARTING POINT? NOW WHEN I CHANGE LOT NUMBERS, I CAN ADJUST EASILY> MY LOAD WAS DEVELOPED WITH A 500 gr BULLET IN PURE LEAD FOR LONG RANGE COMPITITION, ENDED UP MAKING MY OWN LUBE, NONE ON MARKET DID WHAT I WANTED> THIS 500 gr AND A LOAD OF 42 grs BLACKHORN 209, AT 1200fps, IN MY ROLER WILL HOLD THE X RING AT A 1000 yds/meters EASLY, IF I DO MY PART??

[Gunlaker]

I would start with just a hair over zero compression with Swiss. Then work up a grain at a time to see what your rifle likes.

I've had Swiss 1.5 work well with basically no compression right up to around 0.3". The powder lots I've been using for the last couple of years seemed to like a fair bit, but there is no one who can tell you better than your rifle will :-)

Chris.

[Chief TC]

Understood on all replies thus far. Many thanks everyone

[FrankJD]

This is a greaser load, I'd gather? Have you ascertained the cartridge jam OAL for the bullet you'll be using, and created a dummy cartridge at or just shy of the rifling lands? Knowing that seating depth will dictate the volume left for powder. The volume can be converted to weight. Drop fill (compact) the test weight into the case - a bit more powder will probably be required as compacting during the drop fill decreases the powder volume. Push in a wad into the case mouth, set the compression die to compress the wad/powder to the cartridge OAL, seat the freedom seed. If need be, slightly taper crimp. Increasing the powder weight 2 grains at a time will increase the compression as long as the compression die is left as is. Then the load development begins, with possible adjustments to powder type and weight, compression, wad thickness and type, bullet and bullet seat depth, bullet lube, primer, case, etc etc etc. The fun never ends. ;)

[Chief TC]

Not familiar with the term greaser load. The 1882 bullet is specific to the 1884 and 1888 trapdoor with specific measurements for cartridge length, bullet seat .56 and crimp for 500gr bullet for a 2.80 to 2.82 OAL. Since it is so specific and for this model rifle, I would think that varying bullet seating would not be advisable for a variety of reasons. Understood and thanks on how to do further load development.

[M-Tecs]

Not familiar with the term greaser load. The 1882 bullet is specific to the 1884 and 1888 trapdoor with specific measurements for cartridge length, bullet seat .56 and crimp for 500gr bullet for a 2.80 to 2.82 OAL. Since it is so specific and for this model rifle, I would think that varying bullet seating would not be advisable for a variety of reasons. Understood and thanks on how to do further load development.

A greaser load is a bullet with lube grooves and using lube verse a paper patch load.

[M-Tecs]

I GAVE UP ON BLACK AVABILITY LOT NUMBERS I WENT TO BLACKHORN209 I STARTED WITH 1/2 OF LOAD 45/70 SO I STARTED WITH 35 grs AND SEEN WHAT THE LOAD DID? NO AIR SPACE IN LOAD, USED CORK, PAPER AND A PLASTIC PUNCHED CARD WADS WITH A SLIGHT COMPRESSION TO FILL AIR SPACE, I PUT A PAPER CARD WAD ON TOP OF POWDER UNDER BULLET, ALL WAYS, WITH THE CORECT POWDER COLLOM THIS GIVES ME A SURFACE TO COMPRESS WITH, PROTECTS THE BULLET FLAT BASE, THE PLASIIC WAD ACTS LIKE A CLEANER ROUND< I USE A COMPERSSION DIE, NOT THE BULLET> I WAS TRYING TO GET TO 1200fps OR A TAD LESS> DID THE SAME WITH MY 45/60 LOAD>> THE 1200 fps GAVE ME A STARTING POINT? NOW WHEN I CHANGE LOT NUMBERS, I CAN ADJUST EASILY> MY LOAD WAS DEVELOPED WITH A 500 gr BULLET IN PURE LEAD FOR LONG RANGE COMPITITION, ENDED UP MAKING MY OWN LUBE, NONE ON MARKET DID WHAT I WANTED> THIS 500 gr AND A LOAD OF 42 grs BLACKHORN 209, AT 1200fps, IN MY ROLER WILL HOLD THE X RING AT A 1000 yds/meters EASLY, IF I DO MY PART??

All caps are hard to read and it's considered too be shouting.

Since you live in Mpls Track of the Wolf is a great source for real BP.

[Chief TC]

Ahhhh. Copy that. Thanks for the explanation. I hadn’t seen this term used in the threads I have been reading.

[FrankJD]

Not familiar with the term greaser load. The 1882 bullet is specific to the 1884 and 1888 trapdoor with specific measurements for cartridge length, bullet seat .56 and crimp for 500gr bullet for a 2.80 to 2.82 OAL. Since it is so specific and for this model rifle, I would think that varying bullet seating would not be advisable for a variety of reasons. Understood and thanks on how to do further load development.

Specs is one thing, and the actual uniqueness of each rifle, its chamber, the rounds created and their chamber fit thereof, are yet others.

[Don McDowell]

Start with 65 grains of the Swiss, with a .030 fiber wad under the bullet. don't drill the flash holes

[Chief TC]

Specs is one thing, and the actual uniqueness of each rifle, its chamber, the rounds created and their chamber fit thereof, are yet others.

Understood Frank. This will be an adventure. Looking forward to getting into this.

[Chief TC]

Start with 65 grains of the Swiss, with a .030 fiber wad under the bullet. don't drill the flash holes

Thanks Don. I appreciate the specific direction and will certainly try this. How many loads do you recommend I work up and test as I figure out best load?

[Don McDowell]

It's hard to say how many you'll need to try before the rifle and the target are happy, but start at 65 and work up 1 or 2 grains at a time from there. The biggest problem with getting the trapdoor to make super accurate loads is the fouling control, and the variation some of those old gals have in bore and groove diameter, be mindful also of the barrel twist. It will either be 20 or 22, most likely a 20, which will limit your bullet length to the 500 grain bullets. 405 will work well, but might not shoot worth a flip in your Pedersoli.

[Chief TC]

It's hard to say how many you'll need to try before the rifle and the target are happy, but start at 65 and work up 1 or 2 grains at a time from there. The biggest problem with getting the trapdoor to make super accurate loads is the fouling control, and the variation some of those old gals have in bore and groove diameter, be mindful also of the barrel twist. It will either be 20 or 22, most likely a 20, which will limit your bullet length to the 500 grain bullets. 405 will work well, but might not shoot worth a flip in your Pedersoli.

Understood and this is great info. Thank you. Basically, I’m chasing the load that makes the buffington sight actually useful. I have been able to shoot 405 hollow base smokeless and BP out of the trapdoor and it was accurate and grouped well. My Pedersoli shoots 405 flat base smokeless OK out to 550 yards (my range’s limit) but does not group all that great and I can see this bullet sometimes loses stability. I am excited to learn how to BP load and make my 45-70s perform to their potential. Again, many thanks. Tom. My question about how many loads was in regards to how many of a specific load do you make and take to the range to get a good evaluation. 5? 10?

[Don McDowell]

If you get the 405 or 500 gr bullet up to velocity, that buffington sight is amazingly close.
The Pedersoli rifles are pretty good about wanting bullets at .460 diameter, and a number of those old trapdoors are the same way.
Good luck and have fun in your ventures with bp, it can be frustrating but at the same time very rewarding and fun.

[Chief TC]

I think that pretty much answers my questions at this point and I have a good sense of direction to get started. Thank you all very much. I hope one day I will be in a position to teach and help folks on here.

[foesgth]

I am curious about your statement that you want to make the Buffington sight "usefull". How far are you shooting? The problem I had with the Buffington is it starts at 200 yards.
I have an 1874 with the original sight and an 1888 with the Buffington. I find myself shooting the older gun the most. I use the 55grain carbine load. I can ring steel from 50 to 300 yards. That is about as far as this old guy can do.
I have a taller sight for the "new" gun. I need to fit it and get it blued. I am then going to figure out how to shoot the Buffington at the same distance range.
I am looking forward to seeing your results.

[toot]

Welcome to a great site.

[John in PA]

I have been loading and shooting .45-70 loads made according to Spence Wolf's recipe since the mid 1980's. Follow his recipe and procedures exactly and you will duplicate his results. I spoke with Spence and his wife Pat quite a few times on the phone back in the day. You have to remember that Spence's goal was to duplicate the accuracy and performance of Frankford Arsenal service ammunition, NOT to find the ultimate match accuracy load for a single individual gun. The key features are powder compression to the depth that the bullet will seat so that the bullet is not deformed in loading. Seat and crimp in separate operations. Model 1881 500 gr bullet, with deep square lube grooves to hold plenty of lube (50-50 olive oil and beeswax was Spence's recipe and it works just fine. 1-20 tin-lead bullet. NO ANTIMONY, as this bullet design must remain plastic (deformable) to function as it should. Your Swiss is cleaner burning and maybe 10% more energetic than GOEX. Follow Spence's directions anyhow. It may shoot slightly higher at long range (say 200 yd plus) but you just tweak the sight slightly to compensate.
Shooting these loads is really a treat. With a blow tube to keep fouling moist, you'll be able to shoot till your shoulder is sore with no deterioration in accuracy from the Old Warrior. Get an original sight hood and a cast detachable pistol grip from S&S Firearms in New York, and it will feel like a nice offhand military match rifle.

[Chief TC]

I am curious about your statement that you want to make the Buffington sight "usefull". How far are you shooting? The problem I had with the Buffington is it starts at 200 yards.
I have an 1874 with the original sight and an 1888 with the Buffington. I find myself shooting the older gun the most. I use the 55grain carbine load. I can ring steel from 50 to 300 yards. That is about as far as this old guy can do.
I have a taller sight for the "new" gun. I need to fit it and get it blued. I am then going to figure out how to shoot the Buffington at the same distance range.
I am looking forward to seeing your results.

What I mean by useful is to use the buffington sights as designed. So you need the M1882 cartridge specs to use them as designed. I did use them with adjustment using the 405gr as Wolf wrote in his book and it was alright but the amount of holding low and adjustment is significant. but hoping to develop the load that truly makes the sight useful. I will definitely give updates as soon as I start developing loads which will still be several weeks. Thanks for relaying your experiences.

[Chief TC]

I have been loading and shooting .45-70 loads made according to Spence Wolf's recipe since the mid 1980's. Follow his recipe and procedures exactly and you will duplicate his results. I spoke with Spence and his wife Pat quite a few times on the phone back in the day. You have to remember that Spence's goal was to duplicate the accuracy and performance of Frankford Arsenal service ammunition, NOT to find the ultimate match accuracy load for a single individual gun. The key features are powder compression to the depth that the bullet will seat so that the bullet is not deformed in loading. Seat and crimp in separate operations. Model 1881 500 gr bullet, with deep square lube grooves to hold plenty of lube (50-50 olive oil and beeswax was Spence's recipe and it works just fine. 1-20 tin-lead bullet. NO ANTIMONY, as this bullet design must remain plastic (deformable) to function as it should. Your Swiss is cleaner burning and maybe 10% more energetic than GOEX. Follow Spence's directions anyhow. It may shoot slightly higher at long range (say 200 yd plus) but you just tweak the sight slightly to compensate.
Shooting these loads is really a treat. With a blow tube to keep fouling moist, you'll be able to shoot till your shoulder is sore with no deterioration in accuracy from the Old Warrior. Get an original sight hood and a cast detachable pistol grip from S&S Firearms in New York, and it will feel like a nice offhand military match rifle.

Understood on all accounts John. I really appreciate your thorough explanation of Wolf’s directions and your experiences. I’m excited to duplicate Spence’s loads and try a few different things as well to understand this BP game. We have a group in Bend, OR that do military single shot and buffalo competitions BPCR rules. I have not had an opportunity until now to get started and eventually compete in these events. Again, many thanks. Tom.

[BLAHUT]

Ol depends on bulet design > what ever you chose, you want to start with just kissing the rifleing, just able to close action with out forcing> forcing bullet into rifeling rases pressure<< afte you have a load you think will work then you can try pushing bullet into rifleing a touch and see what happend to accuracy, some times improves sometimes not< and m-tecs i am deaf, so i shout, get over it.. I don't use real black.. Blackhorn 209 and i shop at track of the wolf

[Gobeyond]

Ol depends on bulet design > what ever you chose, you want to start with just kissing the rifleing, just able to close action with out forcing> forcing bullet into rifeling rases pressure<< afte you have a load you think will work then you can try pushing bullet into rifleing a touch and see what happend to accuracy, some times improves sometimes not< and m-tecs i am deaf, so i shout, get over it.. I don't use real black.. Blackhorn 209 and i shop at track of the wolf

Dont ya spoked to be consistent? I’d get a boolit I could size but 1-2 thousandrhs over bore till you find out if it works or not. Then I’d fill up the case and work down to my load for that bullet. Doesbullet depth really mean that much?

[Castaway]

On an adjacent thread there’s a question about getting 70 grains of powder in a 45-70 case. Yes you can and I’ve done up to 80 with a drop tube. 70 grains of performance in 1873 isn’t the same as 70 grains in 2022. As stated by many, cases today don’t hold as much. You probably would come closer to duplicating original loads with closer to 68 grain loads. Not to quibble about two grains though, it’s close to being a non-issue. Different cases have different capacities so there’s no absolute answer. Best advice is to determine over-all length and fill case to bottom of bullet. Shoot and measure. Add two grains, keeping same setting on your compression die and shoot and measure again. Repeat in 2 grain increments until you find the sweet spot

[Chief TC]

On an adjacent thread there’s a question about getting 70 grains of powder in a 45-70 case. Yes you can and I’ve done up to 80 with a drop tube. 70 grains of performance in 1873 isn’t the same as 70 grains in 2022. As stated by many, cases today don’t hold as much. You probably would come closer to duplicating original loads with closer to 68 grain loads. Not to quibble about two grains though, it’s close to being a non-issue. Different cases have different capacities so there’s no absolute answer. Best advice is to determine over-all length and fill case to bottom of bullet. Shoot and measure. Add two grains, keeping same setting on your compression die and shoot and measure again. Repeat in 2 grain increments until you find the sweet spot

Thanks Castaway - great advice, totally makes sense to me.

[BLAHUT]

I load 10 with each change and keep track of what happens on target. if run over a coronagraph lets you know of changes + or - to compare with on target.

[Castaway]

Not mentioned but make sure you use a lube for black powder and I’ve found a cardboard wad under the bullet helps with accuracy. If you want to get fancy, cardboard wad on powder, newspaper wad on top of cardboard

[Chief TC]

Hello everyone. Well, I finally got all the components and loaded my first rounds yesterday. It seems all went well in the process except I noticed when I went to seat the bullet, it easily was pushed in and I did not need to use the bullet seating die. It taper crimped just fine but the bullet is definitely not tight against the walls as you can turn them a little. I'm using .459 bullets and used a .459 expander for my Lee dies. Was I supposed to use a .458 expander? what will be the likely result in bullets not tight against the neck wall? Just not as accurate? Thanks

[Castaway]

Chief, that’s not an issue if the bullet turns in the case. Loading black powder is the same as smokeless but different. This is one of the differences. Just make sure your overall length (OAL) is sufficient to allow the bullet to be no more than a 1/10th of an inch from bumping the rifling. This keeps the powder/bullet gap at an acceptable level. If your OAL is even with the rifling, fouling will interfere with chambering on follow-on rounds. You’ll still need to wipe or blow tube though. Back to the “different”, if shooting slow powders like H110, a heavy crimp and heavy bullets are needed for consistent ignition. Black powder is quick enough it doesn’t need the crimp to build pressure.

[gunther]

Buffington's have a reputation for being fragile. Lube with Kroil or P Blaster., and be careful with it. Put a 1/8 inch taller front sight on the gun. They are pinned, so it is an easy job. You might also try a charge of about 50-55 grains of black powder and a wimpy little pure lead maxiball. They weigh about 250 grains and have two huge lube grooves. You can shoot this load all afternoon instead of 8 or 10 times and on to something else.

[Alferd Packer]

You may need to run those new cases thru a sizing die , then a flaring die to accept bullet seating.
Common mistake to use brand new cases and find the bullets are a loose fit without sizing or at least neck sizing the cases.
Also providing the bullets are sized correctly.
This will correct for loose fitting bullets,.

[Chief TC]

Chief, that’s not an issue if the bullet turns in the case. Loading black powder is the same as smokeless but different. This is one of the differences. Just make sure your overall length (OAL) is sufficient to allow the bullet to be no more than a 1/10th of an inch from bumping the rifling. This keeps the powder/bullet gap at an acceptable level. If your OAL is even with the rifling, fouling will interfere with chambering on follow-on rounds. You’ll still need to wipe or blow tube though. Back to the “different”, if shooting slow powders like H110, a heavy crimp and heavy bullets are needed for consistent ignition. Black powder is quick enough it doesn’t need the crimp to build pressure.

Understood. Thanks again Castaway.

[Castaway]

Chief, I should be more specific. My comments on then”loose” bullet applies to single shot rifles. If loading for a magazine or tube fed rifle, crimping is necessary

[Chief TC]

Chief, I should be more specific. My comments on then”loose” bullet applies to single shot rifles. If loading for a magazine or tube fed rifle, crimping is necessary

Thanks. I do understand what you meant about single shot crimping. But I definitely needed to do a taper cramp on these because the neck walls are just not tight enough around the bullet, and the bullet would move around even though it’s seated on top of the powder charge correctly. I am surprise using the 459 expander die creates this much room for the bullet to go in.

[Castaway]

Eliminate the expander die, another of the differences. Fire, deprime, clean, prime, charge, compress, thumb seat. Don’t size, don’t flare neck. Cases will be fire formed to your chamber

[Chief TC]

Eliminate the expander die, another of the differences. Fire, deprime, clean, prime, charge, compress, thumb seat. Don’t size, don’t flare neck. Cases will be fire formed to your chamber

Copy that. Thanks!

[Chief TC]

I finally was able to shoot the loads I developed and thought I would share the results. For my 1888 TD, I used 65gr of 1.5 Swiss with 500gr bullet. I made loads that had wads and no wads. The loads without wads performed better. With wads, they were too high and didn't group as well. I had some problems chambering some loads and I determined I crimped some too aggressively and bulged the case mouth.

For my 1874 Sharps, I used 68gr 1.5 Swiss and 520gr bullet. I loaded all with wads and 1/2 crimped and 1/2 uncrimped. The uncrimped performed better.

It was a fun first outing with BP. Lots to learn and try. Thanks to everyone for all the advice to get me started.

[Chief TC]

Oh I wanted to share too about cleaning my BP rifles. I used ballistol emulsion and found it to be very effective and thorough and quick. Cleaning out BP creates more "mud" than smokeless but I found the cleaning process was about the same, just different solution.

[Castaway]

You can get your black powder barrel cleaner and faster than smokeless. Just make sure you dry and oil it afterwards

[Chief TC]

Thought I would give another update on results just getting into the BP game. Took my Pedersoli 1874 Sharps out and tried 2 different loads with 520gr boolits. 65gr and 62gr both with a fiber wad. 65gr grouping was not impressive. 62gr grouped at 9/10ths of an inch at 100 yds which suits me fine; however it did have a diagonal string pattern. Seems Swiss 1.5 is picky about how much it is compressed. I did chrony the loads and 65gr averaged 1193 and 62gr averaged 1157 but elevation setting was the same.

[Castaway]

Looking good. My current load is 66 of Swiss 1.5 and a 525 grain bullet at 1206f/s

[Chief TC]

So took the TD out again to try further out than 150 yds. I was grouping 2 inches bullseye at 100 and 3+ at 150 in the last session. I was able to use the buffington sight at 200 and 250 and get some good hits; however, i had some crazy hits high and low and right sometimes. I would say more extreme vertical stringing than anything. I also seemed to notice that just using a blow tube, it resulted in lower hits and when I wiped the barrel then higher hits. Again, new to this BP game, so can anyone share what they think about this and what is goal/premise of foul control and how do you do it? Thanks.

[mack2]

When loading for a single shot I really don't need dies. I use a homemade compression die and set the Boolit on the powder in no case do I press the boolit with a seating die. As far as wads some experimentation may be needed. I do compress the wad with the powder. I find the Redding Profile Crimp die the best when loading for a repeater.


I finally was able to shoot the loads I developed and thought I would share the results. For my 1888 TD, I used 65gr of 1.5 Swiss with 500gr bullet. I made loads that had wads and no wads. The loads without wads performed better. With wads, they were too high and didn't group as well. I had some problems chambering some loads and I determined I crimped some too aggressively and bulged the case mouth.

For my 1874 Sharps, I used 68gr 1.5 Swiss and 520gr bullet. I loaded all with wads and 1/2 crimped and 1/2 uncrimped. The uncrimped performed better.

It was a fun first outing with BP. Lots to learn and try. Thanks to everyone for all the advice to get me started.

[Chief TC]

When loading for a single shot I really don't need dies. I use a homemade compression die and set the Boolit on the powder in no case do I press the boolit with a seating die. As far as wads some experimentation may be needed. I do compress the wad with the powder. I find the Redding Profile Crimp die the best when loading for a repeater.

Thanks Mack. I finally got around to slugging the bore to my TD and discovered I have one of those huge groove diameters - .464. So another factor to change. I hope my Lee universal expanding die will flare it sufficiently to get this first one going.

[FrankJD]

When PPB black powder loading for a single shot, it's much easier than with lubed bullets. No dies needed, but I'll use a home made compression die for uniformity and a customized taper crimp die to snug up the PPB a teeny tad, yet it can still be removed and replaced as need be.

[Chief TC]

When PPB black powder loading for a single shot, it's much easier than with lubed bullets. No dies needed, but I'll use a home made compression die for uniformity and a customized taper crimp die to snug up the PPB a teeny tad, yet it can still be removed and replaced as need be.

OK, thanks Frank. I just got into BP, so haven't tried PPBs yet. Another thing to try!

[FrankJD]

OK, thanks Frank. I just got into BP, so haven't tried PPBs yet. Another thing to try!

Also with PPBs - no COAL since PPBs are bore riders, and no lead fouling since PPBs are "jacketed". How cool is that? :grin:

[martinibelgian]

Also with PPBs - no COAL since PPBs are bore riders, and no lead fouling since PPBs are "jacketed". How cool is that? :grin:

Not always true - you can also shoot groove-dia. PPB's! And they work quite well too.

[FrankJD]

Not always true - you can also shoot groove-dia. PPB's! And they work quite well too.

True, as done with smokeless as well, but try a greaser bore rider and you'll know why a bore rider PPB is better on multiple levels for some folks! ;)

[Edward]

True, as done with smokeless as well, but try a greaser bore rider and you'll know why a bore rider PPB is better on multiple levels for some folks! ;)

I'm one of those folks too !/Ed

[mack2]

Thanks Mack. I finally got around to slugging the bore to my TD and discovered I have one of those huge groove diameters - .464. So another factor to change. I hope my Lee universal expanding die will flare it sufficiently to get this first one going.

I would load a fired case without resizing so long as there is not a danger of the boolit sliding off the powder and causing a gap. What is the bore diameter? If the boolit is soft and enters the bore square it will slug up and shoot with good accuracy. This makes several shots possible without cleaning. As mentioned Paper Patching may also work well.

[Chief TC]

Another update on my 1874 Pedersoli Sharps with BP. Lots of progress on grouping. Load was 68gr of Swiss 1.5 with .060 fiber wad and 520gr boolits at .460. OAL was about .015 from the lands. I read on here from some older posts that 68grs or more is going to be significant compression, so no need to put them down a drop tube, so I poured directly into the case. Testing was at 200 yds. Just using a blow tube the group measured 3 MOA. Wiping after each shot was 1.25 MOA. So my question to the experienced folks here - what do I try next to improve on this? I am still trying to learn/understand fouling control outside of wiping the bore. Do I try loads touching the lands? Try a grain or 2 of less or more powder? Try .461 boolits, bore is .459? I know it is important to only change one factor at a time, but are there factors to focus on first now that I have got to this point? Also, a big thanks to everyone here that has given their input and advice. Great to be part of this community to help with the learning curve.

Still working on my TD. My next venture is pre-lubed 512gr boolits at .459 (purchased from Chey-cast bullets, I am not in a position to cast at the moment) at 68 grains to see if it will obturate enough in my .464 bore for acceptable grouping. In central Oregon there is a BPCR group that has monthly competitions for mid-range and long range silhouette and military single shot. I hope to be able to have all my stuff together to be ready when the new season starts.