How Do I Crimp Shorter-Than-Spec .45-70 Brass?

[Liberty1776]

I sorted my .45-70 brass into three headstamps. Each is different length.

Lengths are:

Starline: 2.1075" (very close to 2.105" spec)

W-W: 2.095" (0.0125" shorter)

Hornady: 2.044" (0.0365" shorter)


My problem is that no matter what I do, I cannot crimp the Hornady brass with either the RCBS .45-70 Seater/Crimper die or with a Lee .45-70 Factory Crimp Die.

Both crimping dies cannot be lowered enough to reach the short brass. They just hit the shellholder. Lowering the dies any more will harm the dies.

Longer brass crimps beautifully.

Any other way to crimp a short .45-70 case?

***

UPDATE SUMMARY SOLUTION:


Hornady 45-70 LeveRevolution cases (and others, I'm sure) are shorter than spec. A normal crimp die hits the shellholder before crimping happens.

To crimp a short case, grind or lathe about 0.040" (or a bit more) off the bottom of the RCBS seat/crimp die. Re-chamfer the throat, if desired.* This shortening of the die allows the crimp ring to go lower and actually crimp.

Special dies from Redding and Lee are available, but this solution is free, fast and does not effect normal loading of regular brass.

*I used my Dremel with a conical stone to chamfer the throat. If you have a lathe, it's even better. The steel machines easily.

[HWooldridge]

I had that problem with a set of dies that would supposedly crimp both 44 Special and 44 Mag. Did a fine job on the Mag but Special would not reach. I wound up grinding off about 1/16 from the bottom end of the die so the shellholder would not touch it. Worked like a champ.

[NSB]

Hornady brass is made for their LeveRevolution ammo. They make dies to accommodate this short brass if you want to bother with it. Easiest thing to do is quit buying Hornady ammo. They should have named it something other than 45-70….like adding a prefix or suffix to it.

[Liberty1776]

Yeah, turns out it's a Hornady problem. Their 45-70 brass is under spec on purpose. Stinkers.

Redding makes a roll-crimp die specifically for short brass:
303524

Per Midway's website:


This die was specifically developed in response to the increased popularity of loading Hornady FTX bullets in the 45-70 cartridge. The FTX bullet requires the case to be trimmed down slightly shorter than SAAMI specifications which prevents standard reloading dies from properly crimping. The Redding 45-70 FTX die has a lowered crimping section allowing it to perfectly crimp cases loaded with FTX bullets. This die may also be used on standard length 45-70 cases as long as it is backed out slightly.

[Liberty1776]

Hornady brass is made for their LeveRevolution ammo. They make dies to accommodate this short brass if you want to bother with it. Easiest thing to do is quit buying Hornady ammo. They should have named it something other than 45-70….like adding a prefix or suffix to it.

I certainly will not buy Hornady 45-70, but it's almost impossible to find 45-70 brass anywhere. Starline's not making it in the foreseeable future. Can't even backorder it.

My supply is critically low, so I have what I have.

[Liberty1776]

I had that problem with a set of dies that would supposedly crimp both 44 Special and 44 Mag. Did a fine job on the Mag but Special would not reach. I wound up grinding off about 1/16 from the bottom end of the die so the shellholder would not touch it. Worked like a champ.

As stated, I have two crimpers: the RCBS and the Lee FCD.

Do you think if I grind off a bit of the bottom of the RCBS seater/crimper it will still function on normal brass, as long as I carefully raise and lower it into position?

[HWooldridge]

As stated, I have two crimpers: the RCBS and the Lee FCD.

Do you think if I grind off a bit of the bottom of the RCBS seater/crimper it will still function on normal brass, as long as I carefully raise and lower it into position?

Yes, just don't advance the die as far down toward the shell holder - you will likely eliminate any lead-in chamfer but the entrance hole should be the same size. Will just have to be careful raising the round to seat and crimp. You might be able to add some chamfer to the new inside corner with a die grinder.

[36g]

Grinding off the die should work just fine. The case mouth area is supported during the crimping process. HWooldridge has the right approach. I've done similar things to dies for various purposes and it should work fine. My experiences were with blank star crimping dies and shortening the die by grinding off some worked.

[Liberty1776]

Yes, just don't advance the die as far down toward the shell holder - you will likely eliminate any lead-in chamfer but the entrance hole should be the same size. Will just have to be careful raising the round to seat and crimp. You might be able to add some chamfer to the new inside corner with a die grinder.

I went back and read the RCBS instructions for this roll crimp seater/crimper. (The instructions also reference a Taper Crimp die -- marked with "TC" -- but I don't have that one.) Instructions state specifically NOT to set up the die by having the die hit the shellholder.

Rather, I'm instructed to sneak up on the crimp 1/8 turn at a time. If that's the case, I don't know why they simply didn't make the die shorter in the first place.

I like your idea of re-chamfering with a die grinder. I was going to try rechamfering using a countersink, but the die's steel may be too hard.

I also measured with my caliper from the bottom of the die to the crimp shoulder inside the die, then pulled the shellholder, put a case in it and measured from the shellholder to the top of the brass. Sure enough, the crimp ring cannot touch the top of the Hornady brass.

This grinding trick should fix the problem.

[ohen cepel]

I would set the Hornady brass aside unless you have a LOT of it.

I'll never buy more of their "Leverultion" ammo again as the brass is not worth grinding on things for me. However, I have a fair amount of brass on hand now.

[Liberty1776]

Hornady brass is made for their LeveRevolution ammo. They make dies to accommodate this short brass if you want to bother with it. Easiest thing to do is quit buying Hornady ammo. They should have named it something other than 45-70….like adding a prefix or suffix to it.

So, just to add confusion and since you mentioned "LeveRevolution" -- Lee sells a crimp die called "FACTORY CRIMP DIE 45/70 LEVEREVOLUTION."

https://leeprecision.com/factory-crimp-die-45-70-leverevolution.html

Do you think this particular crimper (Lee part number 91369) is designed to crimp the shorter Hornady brass? Lee is vague about what it does.

The normal FCD for 45-70 is part number 90856. (This is the one I have that can't crimp the Hornady brass.)

https://leeprecision.com/factory-crimp-die-45-70.html

[HWooldridge]

I went back and read the RCBS instructions for this roll crimp seater/crimper. (The instructions also reference a Taper Crimp die -- marked with "TC" -- but I don't have that one.) Instructions state specifically NOT to set up the die by having the die hit the shellholder.

Rather, I'm instructed to sneak up on the crimp 1/8 turn at a time. If that's the case, I don't know why they simply didn't make the die shorter in the first place.

I like your idea of re-chamfering with a die grinder. I was going to try rechamfering using a countersink, but the die's steel may be too hard.

I also measured with my caliper from the bottom of the die to the crimp shoulder inside the die, then pulled the shellholder, put a case in it and measured from the shellholder to the top of the brass. Sure enough, the crimp ring cannot touch the top of the Hornady brass.

This grinding trick should fix the problem.

I don't know what alloy RCBS (or anyone else) uses for dies but it is soft enough to allow threading; I doubt the dies are harder than 45 Rc, maybe less. Might be fun to put one on a Rockwell tester and find out for sure.

[tja6435]

Can you grind enough off of the shell holder to get the die down closer? I’d try that before trying to grind and chamfer a die.

[Liberty1776]

Can you grind enough off of the shell holder to get the die down closer? I’d try that before trying to grind and chamfer a die.

You know, I thought of that, too. And I have an extra 45-70 shellholder. I think I need to grind off about 0.040 -- not much.

My kingdom for a surface grinder! :grin:

[David2011]

I recently needed to modify the crimp die trying to get a Green Machine to run. (Not that I intend to do much with it.) I opened up the lead-in chamfer and found that it machined very easily with a high speed steel tool. I would try to find a friend with a lathe before grinding on a die. It would be very easy to remove a little and re-create the lead-in chamfer.

[HWooldridge]

You know, I thought of that, too. And I have an extra 45-70 shellholder. I think I need to grind off about 0.040 -- not much.

My kingdom for a surface grinder! :grin:

Speculating here again (because I haven't measured it) but removing .040 from the top of the shellholder might leave insufficient meat to keep the holder from breaking out - especially during sizing. I suppose you could keep one holder for seating and use the other one for the remaining operations...

Certainly could be done.

[Liberty1776]

Success! Thanks to all for the suggestions.

First, grinding down the shellholder is out. If I removed 0.040" from the top of the shellholder, there would be no upper lip on the shellholder. No go on that idea.

So back to grinding a bit off the bottom of the RCBS seater die.

I put a 40-grit belt into my vertical belt sander and touched the RCBS seater die to it. The steel came off easily and quickly, with almost no heat buildup. It's definitely mild steel: not hard at all.

I did remove the lead-in chamfer, as was predicted. I used a conical stone in my Dremel tool to restore the chamfer, then changed the belt to a 220 and cleaned up the outer edge of the seater. A lathe would have been better and more accurate, but all I needed was some more clearance, not a perfectly square cut. Grinding worked fine.

Best part: the die roll-crimps the shorter Hornady brass perfectly into the cannelure of a Speer 300 JHP.

I also loaded some 350 grain plated Berry's that were designed for .458 SOCOM and don't have a cannelure. While not exactly a roll crimp, the case laid into the plated bullet nicely. Just have to adjust the crimp just right or it'll overdo it and bulge the brass.

These are all trap door loads for my .45-70 Pedersoli Sharps "Q" Down Under model, 34" barrel.

I'd post pictures, but I've reached my allocated photo upload limit.

What's nice about this die is that I can crimp a variety of brass now.

I used to load 45-70 on my Dillon progressive, but gave up and went back to my Rock Chucker. It's not like I'm loading a thousand rounds.

I can treat each round as an individual based on its quirks, and fine tune the dies as needed. I use the Lee Breech Lock quick-change system, so moving from die to die is fast and easy.

[Harter66]

The Hornady seater was supposed to take care of that .

The Lee alternate FCD was designed to address this .

If you're loading for a Marlin this is the opportunity to shorten those cases up for the 45-60 straight and be able to get a die to crimp for the long nose bullets in the groove

[pworley1]

i chucked mine in the lathe and took an 1/8 of an inch of the seat die and chamfered the edges. Does not effect using it for longer brass.

[Liberty1776]

The Hornady seater was supposed to take care of that .

The Lee alternate FCD was designed to address this .

If you're loading for a Marlin this is the opportunity to shorten those cases up for the 45-60 straight and be able to get a die to crimp for the long nose bullets in the groove


I'm loading for a Sharps 45-70, but my brother-in-law has a lever Henry I also load for.

[Liberty1776]

i chucked mine in the lathe and took an 1/8 of an inch of the seat die and chamfered the edges. Does not effect using it for longer brass.

I wish I had a lathe....

[BLAHUT]

You did not say what you were loading for??? Can you for go crimping ?? I do not resize any of the brass or crimp for my comipition 45/70< crimp only for my 45/70 guide gun or for my 45/60 deer gun>> then most times thoes are throway brass ??