45-70 primer and powder options for a Henry and 340gr cast

[oley55]

I am getting closer to reloading some Lee 457-340-F COWW cast bullets at 1400fps or less for use in a Henry lever gun. As with all things these days, availability of components is challenging (read that PIA).

The weapon is a Henry H010B, levergun 22", 1:20 twist.

For large primers I have: CCI #34, Winchester LR Magnum, and Winchester LP/M.
For powders more or less suitable for 45-70: IMR4227, Varget and Unique.

I am loading these with/for a friend who is currently shooting Precision One 45-70 Trapdoor 350gr ammo at 1350fps. He wants to stay mild. On the powder choices, IMR4227 seems to be intended for heavier boolits at higher velocities and I've read downloading IMR4227 is a big BoZo no-no. So that leaves me Varget and Unique. Since powders are so hard to come by these days I am reluctant to fill those huge cases with 46+gr of Varget when 12-14gr of Unique will give me 1100-1200fps. Still undecided but leaning towards Unique (cost is not the deciding factor, but rather availability and near term replenishment).

So now for primer options. I question the use of the harder cupped CCI #34 in the Henry, having no idea how strong the firing pin strike is. So now to choose between the Win LP/M or Magnum LR. Since we are going with relatively light bullets and low power loads I'm thinking the Win Large Pistol/Mag primers would do well with Unique's (few grains in a big case) and not enough pressure to worry about pierced primers or would I do better with the Magnum rifle primers?

Thoughts and recommendations for the components I HAVE on hand.

[dogmower]

FWIW, I think you may be stuck with Varget. I couldn't find any data on 4227 with that bullet weight in the 45-70. I have had good luck in the 450 bushmaster with it, but that's not quite the volume of the 45-70. I'd personally be nervous about light charges of Unique in that big of a case. I've never had a detonation and don't want one. Powder valley has Imr 3031 and 4198 in stock, but it's pricey.
Good luck

[Winger Ed.]

I've never used anything but Winchester LRs (for standard or magnum loads) in my Marlin CB.
No problems so far.

[NSB]

I shoot 2400 all the time in my 45-70, and I know a lot of other shooters who do also. I shoot it because it gives me incredible accuracy, low recoil, and moderate velocity. My High Wall shoots a pretty consistent 1moa with a 405g bullet and 24 or 25 grains of Unique. I have to add that the 45-70 is absolutely the least fussy gun I’ve ever loaded for. It shoots about everything well.

[RickinTN]

Unique is your choice and you already know the charge weights. 4227 is a better choice than Varget for what you want to do. I have reduced 4227 many times with no issues. I have never heard of reducing 4227 to be a no-no. Start at about 12 grains of Unique and I believe it will bring smiles.
Good Luck,
Rick

[RickinTN]

I shoot Unique all the time in my 45-70, and I know a lot of other shooters who do also. I shoot it because it gives me incredible accuracy, low recoil, and moderate velocity. My High Wall shoos a pretty consistent 1moa with a 405g bullet and 24 or 25 grains of Unique. I have to add that the 45-70 is absolutely the least fussy gun I’ve ever loaded for. It shoots about everything well.

Please check your notes and be careful what you post. Your charges of Unique are about double what is published!
Rick

[oley55]

Any more feedback on my primer options since the only LR I have are CCI #34?

On a side note my Lee 457-340-F mold arrived after I posted above and I set about cleaning, prepping and casting. I got one keeper on cast number two and all keepers after that. (well I had a couple rejects from an inadequate sprue but zero wrinkles or other problems). I was worried the .457" advertised was real so I cast at 700 degrees and they measured .4585"-.459" and weighed at 344-345gr. Powder coat n sized these should work no matter what that Henry slugs at. Any folks out there with Henry barrel dimensions to give me an idea what to expect?

[firefly1957]

Frankly for the light loads you are looking at either large rifle or large pistol primers should do fine .
I shoot that same bullet over IMR-3031 to modern speeds in a Marlin it shoots well under two inches at 100 yards I powder coat the bullets. I have taken two deer with them one at 90 yards the other just a bit further.

[oley55]

Unique is your choice and you already know the charge weights. 4227 is a better choice than Varget for what you want to do. I have reduced 4227 many times with no issues. I have never heard of reducing 4227 to be a no-no. Start at about 12 grains of Unique and I believe it will bring smiles.
Good Luck,
Rick

I think I had a brain fart on the 4227 below min charges. I think I got it confused with H110/W296 powders, but probably just some of the myth stuff we used to see that got stuck in my head.

[NSB]

Please check your notes and be careful what you post. Your charges of Unique are about double what is published!
Rick
My apologies. You are correct. I’m reading Unique and thinking 2400! Sorry. Still under the influence of anesthesia I guess. No wonder they won’t let you drive yourself home. My comments/suggestion still stands but with 2400.

[Noah Zark]

12-14 gr of Unique under 400 gr and 300 gr cast boolits has worked for me for 40+ years. No filler, no detonation. Very Trapdoor friendly, too.

Noah

[GregLaROCHE]

I’ve used a lot of different rifle primers over the years including magnums. They have all worked well for me.

[firefly1957]

I should have mentioned an issue I had with light loads in 45-70 I am sure it is in an older post here .
I was working up a light load for the Lee 200 grain R.E.A.L. bullet sized at .457" in those short leverlution cases a old standby for such things was 10 grains of HERCULES 2400 I had just opened a new can of ALLIANT 2400 and had severe ignition issues? I ended up using 5 grains or RED DOT with a bit of filler to hold powder against primer. The load is quite accurate and gives 950 f/s from my Marlin 45-70 . Same charge (5 grains RED DOT) gives my 45 acp with 200 grain cast bullet same velocity from both a 5" 1911 and a 16" High point carbine .
The newer 2400 did give good reliable speed to shot loads in the 45-70 case with 10 grains under just less then 7/8 oz #9 shot. Pattern was even but spread way to fast .

[Markopolo]

Following this!

[rmark]

From the 1958 Lyman reprint by Cornell Publications


303417

[robg]

24gn of 2400 with a toilet paper wad to hold it against primer <1/4 sheet> work well with that lee boolit in my marlin.

[oley55]

24gn of 2400 with a toilet paper wad to hold it against primer <1/4 sheet> work well with that lee boolit in my marlin.

does it still work well if I am using imaginary 2400?:kidding:

[oley55]

From the 1958 Lyman reprint by Cornell Publications


303417

rmark, what does the * signify in that old 1958 handbook? Does seem to follow anything currently used to identify; wads, most accurate, compressed or otherwise.

edit: * = max load