Lee 459-405-hb in Handi Rifle?

[FergusonTO35]

I'm planning to get an NEF Handi Rifle in .45-70 here soon and already have the Lee 459-405-HB mold. Anybody ever try this boolit in a Handi? I'm just looking for trapdoor velocity and good accuracy out to 100 yards. Does this boolit work well with Unique?

[indian joe]

I'm planning to get an NEF Handi Rifle in .45-70 here soon and already have the Lee 459-405-HB mold. Anybody ever try this boolit in a Handi? I'm just looking for trapdoor velocity and good accuracy out to 100 yards. Does this boolit work well with Unique?

totally irrelevant to your questions -----that boolit is a darn good blackpowder boolit, nice lube grooves

[Whole Bunches]

I use it with 12 grains Unique in my trapdoor. About 1100 fps and nice accuracy. I use as-cast with no sizing and 50/50 NRA type lube. Mine come out about .463” with 20/1 alloy. My trapdoor is .463”.

[upr45]

My handi 4570 has a very short throat. i have not tried that boolit but have shot several different cast 405-460 gr with decent accuracy and performance.

[725]

On the milder side, 40 grains of 3031 or 30 grains of 4198 w/ a Dacron filler. Check these loads against your load manuals before using to be sure they are safe in your gun. They work for me, but because I have never seen your gun, I can not recommend them for you. Good place to start to look, however.

[snipin101]

That is my main bullet in my Pedersoli sharps with 12gr universal. Mine throws my hospital lead at .460. I work at a hospital and the CT machine uses big lead filters they have to change. They make great bullets! Anyway I have shot that bullet out to 400 yards with great accuracy and easy on the shoulder. I just tumble lube mine with Lee alox. Post pictures of that handi rifle. Always like to see a good HEF pic.

Sent from my moto g power (2021) using Tapatalk

[koger]

I shoot the same bullet with 12.5 grs of Unique, and it shoots stupid good. Better than I can shoot, and most of my friends, if we miss clangers, at 100-150 yds it is our fault. A buddy has a Buffalo Classic and it loves this bullet, with a old weaver 6x scope, will shoot 5 into a ragged hole at 100yd about 1.5 inches in diameter. Cast them, lube as described above, load and enjoy, all their is to it.

[cabezaverde]

Has anyone hunted with it?

[wcp4570]

I don't have that mold but do have the Lee 405 solid and my handi 22" barrel gun shoots it very good.

303378

wcp

[FrankJD]

I found that Lee hollow base "trapdoor" bullet to not have good accuracy out of an H&R Buff Classic, better results with a Lee 457-405F, and best accuracy with a Lyman 457193.

[FergusonTO35]

Thanks alot guys, very good info here. Been talking to someone about a very nice Henry with Skinner sights for $400.00, so I might go with that instead.

[FrankJD]

I've had four Henry single shots, two were .45-70, really fine guns, specially now that the hefty trigger pull has been fixed on the newer ones ... Henry will fix the trigger on the older guns.

Even with a trapdoor load the lightweight Henry .45-70 s/s has some goodly recoil. A bit less if lead shot is added to the butt stock. A lot less if 13 grains of Trail Boss is used. ;)

[FergusonTO35]

Thanks. You ever try any of the Lee boolits in your Henry? Ive been thinking the 340 grain as cast dipped in LLA should be a good one.

[FrankJD]

I've used all the Lee .45-70 molds with the H&R Buff Classic, Pedersoli '74 Sharps and rollers, Henry .45-70 with both black powder (Swiss) and smokeless (AA5744 and Trail Boss). The 457-340F, 457-405F, and 457-450F worked the best for me. Lots will depend on your shooting requirements - paper, steel, game ... recoil management ... and shooting distances.

[FergusonTO35]

My use would just be deer out to 100 yards, I can't use sights beyond that distance. If I could consistently get 2-3" groups at that distance I would be quite happy.

[FrankJD]

The Henry H015-4570 has a 1:20 twist and that would limit bullet weight to under 500 grains and better at 400 grains. For hunting with the Henry I'd go with the 456-405F greaser over black powder perhaps 65 grains w/wad slightly compressed, or 23-25 grains of AA5744 smokeless. For a light plinking load that will also kill deer at 100 yards and under, 13 grains of Trail Boss or Unique.

[FergusonTO35]

Thanks, I'll probably just stick with Unique given my needs. I have about 1.5 pounds of the late great IMR 4759 also.

[FrankJD]

IMR4759 was the defacto staple of the BPCR smokeless shooters, replaced with AA5744, they're all good but I'll take black powder over any smokeless.

[FergusonTO35]

For my needs, I can't see ever using anything slower than 5744. If Unique gives me what I want then I'll stick with it.

[ohiomadman]

I use 10 grns of Red Dot,Clean,accurate, and sub-sonic...

[FergusonTO35]

I shoot the same bullet with 12.5 grs of Unique, and it shoots stupid good. Better than I can shoot, and most of my friends, if we miss clangers, at 100-150 yds it is our fault. A buddy has a Buffalo Classic and it loves this bullet, with a old weaver 6x scope, will shoot 5 into a ragged hole at 100yd about 1.5 inches in diameter. Cast them, lube as described above, load and enjoy, all their is to it.

What kind of gun do you shoot them out of? Ever kill anything with it?

[FergusonTO35]

Ok, just sealed the deal on a really nice Henry single shot with Skinner sights. Hopefully it will be here in a week or so.

[gumbo333]

In my Henry lever I’ve had very accurate 1000/ 1100 fps 405 cast loads with Unique , Red Dot and 700X, but Blue Dot is my best. I’ve used no fillers.

[FergusonTO35]

What kinda loads do you use with Blue Dot? I've always thought that it could be a decent powder for rifle boolits.

[NEKVT]

I use the Lee 459-405-HB unsized in my cut down 20" Trapdoor "Sporter". 24.0gr 4227 with .75gr dacron gives a comfortable and accurate 1120 fps at that barrel length.

[FergusonTO35]

Sounds great. Does Blue Dot really need a filler?

[FergusonTO35]

Ok, so I scored a nice Lyman 457191 mold. Anybody got some nice loads with Unique for this boolit?

[Sgt H]

I have been loading 12gr Unique under the Lyman 457191, CCI large pistol primer. My 457191 is an older small block mold and is not bevel base like most. Drops right at 300gr out of COWW. 1150fps and very light recoil, calculated recoil of this load is about 1/3 of the standard service load of a 405gr boolit at 1350 or so. Has been accurate enough for me to win a couple of gong matches with targets out to 200 yards shooting my 1886 Browning. Have recently acquired an RCBS 45-325-fn-u which is dropping at 340gr out of COWW. Don't have a load for it yet but I am going to try unique in the 11-13gr range. Velocity should be about 1100fps. Lots of drop at 200 but once you work out the sight settings it is no trouble ringing the steel. The low velocity light bullet loads are lots of fun due to the light recoil.

[FergusonTO35]

Sweet, thanks alot. Matter of fact I have a few trays of LP primers and have been wondering what I could use them in, since all of my pistol cartridges take small primers.

[FergusonTO35]

Just thinking out loud here: I wonder if I could also use the 457191 in a sabot with my .50 cal muzzleloader? I know .45 Colt Boolits work quite well. Would the .458 slug be too fat to load?

[BLAHUT]

Yes, if you can hit what you aim at, it will kill deer>

[FergusonTO35]

I don't doubt that, I just wonder if a .459 slug would be too fat to load with a sabot intended for a .452 pistol boolit.

[Sgt H]

Not into the inlines but a few friends are. I believe there are sabots for .458 bullets in the .50 calibers. If not the 457191 can be sized down to .452, it has already been done to load in .45 caliber handgun rounds dating back to the days of Elmer Keith.

[FergusonTO35]

Thanks, that's what I figured. Anyhow, the new Henry arrived yesterday and it is sweet, thanks Hornetguy! I rolled up some loads with 11 to 12.5 grains Unique and 300 grain slugs, hopefully can test drive after work today.

304168

[FergusonTO35]

Took the Henry for a test drive at 60 yards today. It is quite pleasant to shoot and all loads were easily minute of deer. 12.5 grains really did well, made three shots in a very tight cloverleaf. Very satisfying to shoot a simple rifle with open sights and your own boolits!

[pworley1]

That bullet has worked great in every rifle I have tried it in including the handi rifle.

[FergusonTO35]

Thanks, I remember it was about the only Boolit that did well in the Marlin I used to have. 12.5 grains is no fluke, made another nice group with it today after work. Only problem I have had so far is the primer strikes are not as strong as I think they should be. One Remington primer required a second strike, all the others went bang but I really would like them to be stronger. Is this a known issue with these rifles?

[Sgt H]

Got to the range and tested loads with the RCBS 325-FN-U. Loads with Unique were a bust, 6-8" groups at 100. Loads with 20 and 21 grains of 2400 shot into 3" give or take .25" out of my 1886 Browning with a Marbles tang sight. Good enough for ringing the gongs out to 200.

[FergusonTO35]

What charges of Unique were you using? 12.5 is the sweet spot for my Henry. Planning to try Green Dot and 700x also.

[Sgt H]

12-15 in 1 grain increments. 2400 - 20-24 also 1 grain increments. 20 and 21 shot about the same, 22-24 were pretty good also but a bit larger groups. In all fairness though I was getting fatigued by the time I got to the 22-24 grain loads. I was switching between the 1886 and my Sharps to let them cool. The loads I was testing for the Sharps were 420 and 525 grain bullets loaded to about 1350 and 1275 respectively. By the time I finished the 22-24 grain 2400 loads I had fired almost 100 rounds, maybe getting punch drunk. Those 525's rock you even in a 10+ pound rifle. That and just prior to sitting down at the bench to test 45/70 loads I shot a NRL match.

[FergusonTO35]

Thanks. I shoot my Henry at 65 yards, this is about the maximum distance I would shoot at game with it. The .45-70 is going to be my dark woods stalking rifle.