Accurate 38/357 loads ?

[hylander]

Every caliber I have ever loaded I can hit an accuracy node within three try's, but having a hard time getting accurate loads for the 38 and 357. Most loads I have tried are grouping about 2.5" or so at 25yds.
Guns are S&W 15-3 and GP100
Bullets are 158 extreme plated.
Powders I have are HP-38, CFE, and BE86 is on the way.
Looking for medium loads, not hot.
Any pet accuracy loads?

[BMW Rider]

Did you try the load listed in the extreme reloading manual using CFE? I tried one of their suggested loads in 9mm for BE86 and was satisfied with the accuracy.

[derek45]

dump the plated bullets.

I get better accuracy with coated.

win231 is very accurate in 357 mag, and CLAYS is very accurate in 38 special.


My Ruger GP100 4.2" shot hits on steel at 90 yards. 6.5gr Win231, SNS 158gr RNFP coated.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Umk68uyVxtA


Ruger LCR hitting steel plate at 90 yards.
38 special 3.0gr CLAYS 130gr SNS coated.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aY3XP8Ghe1E

[hylander]

Thanks,
I didn't know extreme had data, will check it out.
I have used a lot of SNS in 45 Colt, but I have 1000 extreme to go through.

[hylander]

So just checked extreme data with CFE.
Seems awfully high at 7.6gr.
Hogdons shows 6.9 as max for same bullet weight

[Hi-Speed]

In addition to derek45’s great advice…

HP38 is same as W231…I have found the following accurate in 38 Special and 357 Magnum Mid Range loads using generic cast 158 gr SWC’s (I like Missouri Cast Bullets with 12 BNH hardness):

38 Special - 4.0 grs W231 (Standard Velocity load, great load for all round use)
38 Special +P - 4.5 grs - 4.7 grs W231 (good working loads a little more umph for added fun!)
357 Magnum Mid Range - BE-86…use Alliant BE-86 load data here is link, back off 10% to start: https://www.alliantpowder.com/reloaders/recipedetail.aspx?gtypeid=1&weight=158&shellid=28&bulletid=318

For 357 Magnum level loads, you can still find Alliant 2400 at either Brownells or Natchezss, 13.5 grs 2400 with the 158 gr SWC is a fine all round magnum level load.

This should get you started pretty well.

(Sorry, I can’t help you with CFE but as others mentioned, pls refer to Hodgdon reloading data).

Let me know how things go.

[BMW Rider]

So just checked extreme data with CFE.
Seems awfully high at 7.6gr.
Hogdons shows 6.9 as max for same bullet weight

Yikes! That is high, definitely avoid using that! Strange because their 9mm load was right in the ballpark suggested by the powder manufacturer.

[outdoorfan]

So just checked extreme data with CFE.
Seems awfully high at 7.6gr.
Hogdons shows 6.9 as max for same bullet weight


Although I haven't used CFE pistol in the 357 magnum, I have used it in the 45 colt and 45 acp.

I have found that it is almost the same and maybe slightly slower burning than Unique.

My pet load with Unique in the 357 magnum is a 150-158 grain bullet at 6.3 grain.

I would think you could find what you're looking for around 6-6.5 grains of CFE pistol.

[Low Budget Shooter]

I have been having success in mid-level 357 Magnum with a 158 gr bullet over 7.0 grains BE-86.

[Kosh75287]

I have been having success in mid-level 357 Magnum with a 158 gr bullet over 7.0 grains BE-86.

I think BE-86 is a better propellant than most people believe or realize. It meters better and burns cleaner than Unique, and is flash-suppressed. I've used it in 9mm, .45 ACP, .38/.357, and .45 Colt (light AND heavy). Very good to excellent results in all applications, no surprises from any load combination.
One .45 ACP load gave me 1073 + 23 f/s with a 200 gr. PC-SWC, without weird ejection or signs of too much of anything. I plan to try it in .38 Super, very soon.

[outdoorfan]

I think BE-86 is a better propellant than most people believe or realize. It meters better and burns cleaner than Unique, and is flash-suppressed. I've used it in 9mm, .45 ACP, .38/.357, and .45 Colt (light AND heavy). Very good to excellent results in all applications, no surprises from any load combination.
One .45 ACP load gave me 1073 + 23 f/s with a 200 gr. PC-SWC, without weird ejection or signs of too much of anything. I plan to try it in .38 Super, very soon.


So, slightly slower than unique?

Similar to CFE pistol?

Just curious.

[Kosh75287]

I believe it is slightly slower than Unique, but I don't know where CFE-Pistol ranks in there. If anything, I'D expect CFE to be a shade slower than Herco, though I've seen data that conflict with that.
I have a 1982 Ruger Police Service Six 4" .357 through which I must have run 2000 rounds of 8.0/Unique/158 gr. LSWC or RNFP, before I realized that Lyman had lowered the max charge considerably. It reliably gave me 1275 + 25(ish) f/s, and flattened everything I shot with it. I had SLIGHT primer flattening, and ZERO sticky case extraction.
Of the four "medium rate" pistol propellants I use extensively, MY experience suggests the following order:
FASTER > Unique > BE-86 > Herco > AA#5 > CFE-Pistol > SLOWER.
If other shooters' experiences suggest a different order, I would not be surprised. The order I display above is what is supported by MY results, in .357 Magnum, .45 ACP, and .45 Colt (TC/Ruger Only).

[outdoorfan]

Interesting. Thanks.

I have not run CFE pistol in the 357, but I use it and Unique in the 45 acp and 45 colt.

In the acp, I've noticed a noticeable difference in burn rate with a 230 grain lead bullet. It depends on the day, but CFE pistol has needed ~.5 grain more powder to achieve the same velocity as Unique.

In the 45 Colt with a 250 grain lead bullet, I run the same 10.6 grains for both CFE pistol and Unique to achieve almost the same velocity.

[outdoorfan]

How much less case fill can I expect to experience when switching from Unique to BE-86?

My concern is that in the tall/skinny 357 case, 6-7 grains of BE-86 or CFE pistol will be difficult to visually verify when in the loading process. As it is, Unique is pushing my limits of comfort when trying to verify (at a glance) case fill.

[Hi-Speed]

6-7 grains you’ll easily see with a Mag lite looking into each case…a double charge (12-14) would be very apparent and easily detected for appropriate corrective action!

[jonp]

Thanks,
I didn't know extreme had data, will check it out.
I have used a lot of SNS in 45 Colt, but I have 1000 extreme to go through.

Me neither. They sure like Power Pistol

[rhill]

Derek45---Where is that range you are shooting at. Looks like ARPC in Mo.

[Kosh75287]

You probably won't get stellar accuracy with plated projectiles. At leastI'VE never managed to. 2.5" at 25 yards is about the best I've ever heard of, using plated bullets. Try conventional cast or PC'd projectiles.
In MY two .357s, I found an accuracy node at 7.6-7.8/BE-86/158 gr. LSWC or RNFP. PC'd bullets gave similar to slightly better accuracy, but notably higher velocities, especially from the 6" barreled revolver.

[justindad]

I don’t get good accuracy from plated bullets. I’ used Speer in .45ACP and X-Treme in 9mm/357SIG.

[rogerl7157]

Both with 158 SWC i cast and powdercoat myself.
38 Special - 4.0-4.2 gr of 231
357 Magnum 13.5 of 2400


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[rhill]

nice shooting, fellow ARPC member!

[Rodfac]

Using Starline .357 brass, with Lyman's 358156 GC bullet, cast from ACWW + 1% tin, sized to 0.358" with an annealed Hornady GC; 5.5 grains of current production Bullseye gives me 996 fps from my 1980 vintage Smith M-66. This is a sub-2" grouping load at 25 yds from a rested position. It's equally good in a 1985 vintage S&W M-19 and a M-686 of the same year group. All three are 4" bbl'd guns.

Notes: Starline .357 Magnum brass and Winchester Sm Pistol primers used with all loads. With 6.2 gr of WSF, or 6.9 gr of Herco, I've chrono'd right at 1000 fps from my 4" K frame Smiths. Without the GC, 6.0 gr of Unique gave me 1034 fps and ES of 27 fps...this Unique load gave me my best accuracy of 1-1/2" @ 25 yds, BTW, and with no leading whatsoever.

The annealed gas checks seems to give better accuracy than ones that haven't been annealed. I anneal by placing a handful of GC's in a stainless steel bowl and heat them cherry red with a Berns-O-Matic torch.

I use as little crimping as possible; only enough to prevent bullet jump in recoil. At this level, a taper crimp works well and gives a bit better accuracy.

Reducing the powder charge to 5.3 - 5.3 gr. of Bullseye will give you 4" bbl. velocities that duplicate the old 'FBI' load of ~950 fps with a HP LSWC.

HTH's Rod

[357Mag]

Hylander -

Howdy !

You did not specifically say you were averse to buying another powder. If that's the case, then ( if you can obtain some )
8.0gr SR4756 under a 158SWC is a great .357Mag; load that Skeeter Skelton told us about some decades back.

It is a tad smokey, but has always been accurate for me ( 4", 5"; and 6" "N"-frames ).

For an entry-level .357Mag load using another powder other than you mentioned: my go-to load for decades has been
14.5gr WW296 and SP Mag primer under a Lyman SWC of 158 - 172gr. This was the minimum charge of WW296 Winchester
( Olin ) listed in their reloading handout pamphlet.... for 158SWC's in the .357Magnum. This load worked well not only in the handguns mentioned above, but also in Marlin 1894SC.


With regards,
357Mag

[Kosh75287]

8.0gr SR4756 under a 158SWC is a great .357Mag; load that Skeeter Skelton told us about some decades back.

If memory serves, production of SR4756 has been discontinued. Sad.

MY "go to" .357 Magnum load is 7.2/Unique/158 gr. LSWC or LRNFP. The same bullets over 8.0/Herco make for a good "all around" .357 load, also.