So I need some help...Just got into progressive, wet tumbling, and Lee APP...HELP!!!!

[Stopsign32v]

So I've gone from corn cob tumbling and a single stage press to Lee Loadmaster, Lee APP, and wet tumbling. I'm pretty lost as to what I should do...

The good thing is I've got the Lee Loadmaster running great, I mean super smooth! Was easy to do really.

The Lee APP press is ok, but requires some setting up. But it's fast once it gets going.

Wet tumbling is where I should have been from the start. Was a waste of money not doing it.


But here is where I need help. I've had the Lee APP setup for about a year now but never used it until yesterday. It was going to help me with the single stage to speed it up but now that I have the Loadmaster I'm struggling to find a use for it. I will probably always use it to size powder coated boolits but someone on here suggested using it as a universal decapping station prior to wet tumbling.

So my main question is if I don't deprime before wet tumbling will that be an issue? My plan has been wet tumble, rinse, rinse, and then cook them in the oven at 250 degrees to dry. I don't think this will clean the primer pocket though.

But if I do deprime off the Lee Loadmaster what would I use the first hole for? The second hole is priming and I resize on that station.

Basically:

1) Should I deprime before wet tumbling or is it that big of a deal to wet tumble with primers in place?
2) If I don't deprime on station 1 on the Loadmaster what could I utilize that spot for?

[Winger Ed.]

De-priming first basically just lets the primer pocket be cleaned, and the bit of dust that's in it with the spent primer
gets washed away instead of ending up in & on the machinery of the press.

I don't de-prime first.
I do keep a air hose handy to periodically blow out the dust & grit that falls under the loading plate/disc.

[Pipefitter]

I de-prime on a single stage press, then ultrasonic clean, dry, lube, yadda yadda. This gets the primer pockets clean and keeps the primer dust out of the progressive press.


Edit: I have found that brass that has gotten wet and allowed to dry for extended periods of time, sometimes the walls of the primers will corrode to the side of the primer pocket. This results in the bottom of the primer "popping" off, leaving the side of the primer cup stuck in the primer pocket. Another reason I de-prime before washing my brass.

[dverna]

It depends how anal you are.

I used to shoot a lot. Never needed sparkly brass. Never cleaned a primer pocket on pistol brass.

What works for me does not work for everyone.

[GWS]

If a picture is worth 1000 words then two pictures will save you from having to read and get convinced, even more:

https://i.postimg.cc/tTMn3qs3/IMG-2829.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/sDZ7Jh9v/IMG-2748.jpg

Two things....1. bling and clean is pretty and keeps your tools and guns clean, and pretty primer pockets means you don't have to use a primer pocket cleaner separately....plus 2. the wet polished brass dries way faster without primers in the pockets.

I use the APP for depriming before wet polishing alright, but I also use it for swaging military brass as done in the first picture. (7.62 LC brass) My bench swager is way slow in comparison, and the APP does the job just as good if you follow Lee's directions very carefully. I wasn't that impressed at first with swaging, but then I decided to read the directions carefully....doh....much better. If I was set up to cast my own boolits I would do that too.

The best part of an APP is case/bullet feeder. Unheard of on a single stage press.....someday all single stage presses will have one.....really speeds things up.

Don: I loaded without bling for 40 years....no it isn't necessary. What can I say......bling improved my attitude. Better attitude better shooting. Even better now that my eyes have faded. Would not go back....but to each their own....:)

[Stopsign32v]

But what would I use for the first hole on the Lee Loadmaster?

[wilecoyote]

probably using an extra hole for seating the bullet with one die and crimping with another as next step would allow for a sensible solution, but it's my 2c. without knowing the caliber, your reloading needs, etc.
btw, I like depriming and washing the cases first, because the sooner I get rid of spent primers and related residues the better. my presses, dies and lungs don't need that dust.

[toallmy]

I understand this will not help with what to use your APP press for , but I found the loadmaster to be a wonderful machine to run large batches of brass through prior to washing them . With a universal decaping die alone in the tool head .

[Electrod47]

If a picture is worth 1000 words then two pictures will save you from having to read and get convinced, even more:

https://i.postimg.cc/tTMn3qs3/IMG-2829.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/sDZ7Jh9v/IMG-2748.jpg

Two things....1. bling and clean is pretty and keeps your tools and guns clean, and pretty primer holes means you don't have to use a primer hole cleaner separately....plus 2. the wet polished brass dries way faster without primers in the holes.

I use the APP for depriming before wet polishing alright, but I also use it for swaging military brass as done in the first picture. (7.62 LC brass) My bench swager is way slow in comparison, and it does the job just as good if you follow Lee's directions very carefully. I wasn't that impressed at first with swaging, but then I decided to read the directions carefully....doh....much better. If I was set up to cast my own boolits I would do that too.

The best part of an APP is case/bullet feeder. Unheard of on a single stage press.....someday all single stage presses will have one.....really speeds things up.

Don: I loaded without bling for 40 years....no it isn't necessary. What can I say......bling improved my attitude. Better attitude better shooting. Even better now that my eyes have faded. Would not go back....but to each their own....:)

Buddy, I just had to say. " That's some Proud Brass!" I strive for that but, never looks that good.

[Stopsign32v]

Buddy, I just had to say. " That's some Proud Brass!" I strive for that but, never looks that good.

Honestly I think that's new brass. None of it looks to ever have been reloaded.

[Stopsign32v]

probably using an extra hole for seating the bullet with one die and crimping with another as next step would allow for a sensible solution, but it's my 2c. without knowing the caliber, your reloading needs, etc.
btw, I like depriming and washing the cases first, because the sooner I get rid of spent primers and related residues the better. my presses, dies and lungs don't need that dust.

I already have that. The 2nd process on the Loadmaster HAS to be the one that sizes/primes. So what can you do before sizing/priming?

[toallmy]

I already have that. The 2nd process on the Loadmaster HAS to be the one that sizes/primes. So what can you do before sizing/priming?

The first station is set up to size and remove the primers , the second station is to prime the case .

[Stopsign32v]

The first station is set up to size and remove the primers , the second station is to prime the case .

So the first station would be useless...

[Half Dog]

Sounds like you have plenty of good advice. Here’s what I do:
For range pick up, wet tumble without pins. This puts a coating on to stop tarnish and is ready to store for a later date.
My previously shot brass, dry tumble with lizard litter, deprime, then wet tumble with pins. Helps keep my dies clean.

[toallmy]

Yep sorry

[JimB..]

So the first station would be useless...

No. On the APP you’ll want to use a universal decapping die and not a sizing die. The brass is dirty at this point, running it into a sizing die would be exactly what you’re trying to avoid. So the first station on the progressive still sizes.

[Kenstone]

But what would I use for the first hole on the Lee Loadmaster?

Well, the loadmaster (I have one) is unique in that it primes at the top of the stroke, unlike any other press, and that changes the press to a 4 station, not a 5.

Presses than prime on the bottom of the stroke (2nd station) can actually have the powder drop/flare die in the 2nd station too.
So, the 2nd station preforms 2 functions (prime/powder drop), the Loadmaster...nope.

The way I see it, if you want to utilize both the 1st and 2nd station on the LOADMASTER you will need to pre-prime off the loadmaster.

I have reconfigured my Loadmaster to prime on the BOTTOM by simply adding another element.
This didn't work out well as the press is designed to feed the primer over the primer pin on the up stroke.
I have since reverted back to priming on the top though.

To prime on the bottom
I added a short length of chain that I hooked over the priming arm at the bottom of the stroke and short stroked the shell plate up to tension the chain and pull down on the priming arm, priming the case.
Push the lever forward, returning the shell plate to the bottom, unhook the chain, continue.
Here's a pic:
303230
I still have the chain on the press and have posted pics many times, but no one ever asked about it. [smilie=s:
What made it awkward was I had to reach around and fiddle with the primer feeder to get a primer over the pin to seat.

I don't usually post about my failures, but this might interest someone else to try and convert a Loadmaster to bottom prime...or not.
I'll start another post about de-priming before wet tumbling for a different reason that has not been mentioned yet.
jmo,
.

[oley55]

I wet pin clean and I do deprime in advance. Not so much that I want my primer pockets spotless but I find that my brass dries much faster without old primers in place. I rely on hot Florida sun to dry my brass, nothing mechanical. Without doing something else I gotta wonder how you could be certain the water that made it into the primer cup was fully dried.

[GregLaROCHE]

I always deprime and clean brass first.

[The Dar]

I would not wet tumble without removing the primers. If you store your brass you will have "ringers" when you remove the primers. The face of the primer will be removed and the primer walls will stay in the pocket.

I'd set up the APP with a universal deprimer.

[NyFirefighter357]

I wet pin clean and I do deprime in advance. Not so much that I want my primer pockets spotless but I find that my brass dries much faster without old primers in place. I rely on hot Florida sun to dry my brass, nothing mechanical. Without doing something else I gotta wonder how you could be certain the water that made it into the primer cup was fully dried.

This as well as without the primer removed depending on the caliber it traps water & the pins in somewhat a vacuum, preventing the pins & water from flowing in/out while tumbling. I have had cases fill with pins & need to be shaken out.

[rustyshooter]

Remove primers unless your going to swage .40 cases to .45 boolits. Then you’ll leave them in. About “baking” to dry. Look at my buddy’s post #15 in this thread. 2 minutes with a hair dryer and brass is hot.

https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?396305-Rotary-wet-tumbler-users

[dverna]

If a picture is worth 1000 words then two pictures will save you from having to read and get convinced, even more:

https://i.postimg.cc/tTMn3qs3/IMG-2829.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/sDZ7Jh9v/IMG-2748.jpg

Two things....1. bling and clean is pretty and keeps your tools and guns clean, and pretty primer holes means you don't have to use a primer hole cleaner separately....plus 2. the wet polished brass dries way faster without primers in the holes.

I use the APP for depriming before wet polishing alright, but I also use it for swaging military brass as done in the first picture. (7.62 LC brass) My bench swager is way slow in comparison, and it does the job just as good if you follow Lee's directions very carefully. I wasn't that impressed at first with swaging, but then I decided to read the directions carefully....doh....much better. If I was set up to cast my own boolits I would do that too.

The best part of an APP is case/bullet feeder. Unheard of on a single stage press.....someday all single stage presses will have one.....really speeds things up.

Don: I loaded without bling for 40 years....no it isn't necessary. What can I say......bling improved my attitude. Better attitude better shooting. Even better now that my eyes have faded. Would not go back....but to each their own....:)

Key words you used “it isn’t necessary”.

I am lazy so the extra work is not warranted. I can hardly stand using the old way to clean brass so washing, rinsing and drying is not happening. Having to deprime first is another nail in the coffin. More wasted time and reduced productivity.

I use Dillon progressives and they seem to work ok with tumbled brass. Maybe with a less forgiving press it would matter....I do not know, and is not important to me.

Nothing wrong with spending time to get pretty brass for those wired that way.

I find it humorous folks will add a bullet feeder to increase productivity but take a 50% reduction in productivity by depriming as a separate operation and doing the “wet thing”.

Anyway, nice job on your brass. It does look pristine!!

[Stopsign32v]

I would not wet tumble without removing the primers. If you store your brass you will have "ringers" when you remove the primers. The face of the primer will be removed and the primer walls will stay in the pocket.

I'd set up the APP with a universal deprimer.

I store all my brass dirty honestly. I don't clean until I'm ready to use. I just popped out 7 primers from some wet tumbled brass from Saturday and the inside of the pocket looked squeaky clean except for the face where the hole is.

I think I will just continue to deprime on my Loadmaster. Moving a step away from the progressive press seems to defeat the purpose anyways.

[Kenstone]

I have decided (for me) that ALL the priming problems on ANY progressive (I use 4 different progressives) can be traced back to primer debris or crimped primers.

Crimped primers get sucked back into the pocket and when indexed over the new primer, creates a stoppage.
The primer smooge from de-priming on a progressive will accumulate and cause priming problems and stoppages too.

By de-priming before wet tumbling, I can feel a crimped primer (often gets sucked back in) and deal with it then and there by chamfering the pocket.
I cannot distinguish my brass from range brass that I might have picked up, so I de-prime all brass because I can fix the crimps as they are found, without tedious inspection to find them.
I deprime in my drill press, but your APP is perfect for de-priming.
303234
jmo,
.
Edit: Good luck on your quest moving forward. :-P

[GWS]

Buddy, I just had to say. " That's some Proud Brass!" I strive for that but, never looks that good.

Well I learned from DryFlash3 who moderates at AR15.com. Starting with a Thumblers Tumbler B, He fills a large plastic 2 Liter soft drink bottle (top sliced off at where it starts narrowing) with brass (same whatever brass you use). Then tosses in about 5 lbs of stainless steel pins, one .45acp case full of Lemishine, and a 2 second squeeze of Dawn dishwashing liquid.....finally fills it nearly full of COLD water. That's exactly what I do, because it works....least with my local pretty darned hard New Mexico water. I usually tumble for about 2 hours, then rinse in clean cold water, while using my RCBS brass separator to separate the pins......I lay it out to dry on the Sunny back patio....and that's it.

Last winter when it was below zero, I washed and separated some 9mm in the Laundry sink.....I know, sewer forever contaminated....but that was only once...I usually bling brass in the summer outside. But I videoed it for my grandson....it was his 9mm. It was a bit hard being a smallish sink, but it got done. Here's the video to prove Dryflash's method works really well. Anyway here's the video.


https://youtu.be/4Xr5D5k3sJw

I know bling is anal.....but to these old eyes it's worth the extra time. I'll never go back to the dull reloads again. And now having an APP and TylerR's quickchange case feeder, depriming is so fast, I wouldn't think of tumbling with primers in. I tried that....one time.:)

The APP's "extra time" to deprime is pretty darned easy time!


https://youtu.be/F5tMwynbUUI

[wilecoyote]

No. On the APP you’ll want to use a universal decapping die and not a sizing die. The brass is dirty at this point, running it into a sizing die would be exactly what you’re trying to avoid. So the first station on the progressive still sizes.

...this^^^

[GWS]

...this^^^

Yes! See my last video doing .357mag.

[Finster101]

But what would I use for the first hole on the Lee Loadmaster?


I use a Lee universal de-capping die on dirty brass. That way my sizing die does not get scratched up. I keep it on a tool head just by itself and that way can easily use it on any caliber. Leave your sizing die in the first hole and size the cleaned brass. A tool head and de-capping die are pretty cheap, and you can use the case feeder if you have one to really speed up the process.

[Stopsign32v]

My sizing is done on the second stage of the loadmaster

[jetinteriorguy]

But what would I use for the first hole on the Lee Loadmaster?

Sizing. Just consider the decapping pin optional. I also use a spare seating die backed out a couple turns to center the case in the second station. This helps assure your case is in the proper position when priming it.

[Stopsign32v]

Sizing. Just consider the decapping pin optional. I also use a spare seating die backed out a couple turns to center the case in the second station. This helps assure your case is in the proper position when priming it.

Sizing is done in station 2. Reason for this is the sizing die lines up the press for the primer seating. So sizing and priming are done together.

[jetinteriorguy]

Sizing is done in station 2. Reason for this is the sizing die lines up the press for the primer seating. So sizing and priming are done together.
Technically station one is for sizing and depriming at the same time. That’s why the carrier is open under station one so primers are collected in the bottom of the hollow ram. You wouldn’t be able to do this in station number two since the decapping rod can’t be used in conjunction with the priming ram. This is the way Lee says to set it up, they also suggest using a spare seating die in station number two to center the case for proper primer seating. You back the die off enough to prevent it from crimping the case while priming. You can prime in station number two without any die, they merely suggest using one for better results.

[Finster101]

You can make reloading simple or hard. The choice is yours. You have been given many viable options but seem stuck on a choice you don't seem happy with but don't want to change. Good luck on your journey.

[Stopsign32v]

You can make reloading simple or hard. The choice is yours. You have been given many viable options but seem stuck on a choice you don't seem happy with but don't want to change. Good luck on your journey.

Please clarify

And your post is the only one that has been posted that is of no help, congratulations on that.

[Stopsign32v]

Technically station one is for sizing and depriming at the same time. That’s why the carrier is open under station one so primers are collected in the bottom of the hollow ram. You wouldn’t be able to do this in station number two since the decapping rod can’t be used in conjunction with the priming ram. This is the way Lee says to set it up, they also suggest using a spare seating die in station number two to center the case for proper primer seating. You back the die off enough to prevent it from crimping the case while priming. You can prime in station number two without any die, they merely suggest using one for better results.

Right but I use the sizing die for the same reason Lee suggests a spare seating die in station 2, to center the case for proper priming. Station 4 seats and station 5 crimps.

I think depriming off the press universally and then cleaning might have enough benefits to just leave station 1 empty. :?:

[megasupermagnum]

I personally size my own brass dirty. If I'm loading range pickup brass from who knows where, I will clean it first, but that's mostly sloshing in a bucket. I'm not worried about the soot from my own brass. So I run a sizer in my Lee APP a lot of times. For bottleneck rounds I would then trim and do whatever else. After all that is done, I then clean.

Dverna is right, brass doesn't have to sparkle. My own opinion though is that if you are going to clean you brass, you may as well get the primer pockets clean. We are way beyond the days of dry tumbling. It takes zero extra effort to have a wet tumbler or ultrasonic cleaner do the work for you with no drawbacks. I don't run mine so long that they look like new brass, and sometimes I have a spec of carbon in a primer pocket, but for the most part all my brass is quite clean. I too waited too long to go to wet cleaning. I would never dry tumble brass again. It doesn't do anything functional at all. You may as well just load dirty brass, which honestly you could load dirty brass with minimal problems. With something like 9mm luger or 45 acp or 38 special, I could see why you might be willing to skip cleaning for the extra productivity. Those cartridges are basically fool proof. I mostly load magnum handguns and bottleneck rifle, so I'm not willing to just send those through a press without at least a little checking over.

There is nothing wrong with sizing on station 2 like you are.

[Stopsign32v]

I personally size my own brass dirty. If I'm loading range pickup brass from who knows where, I will clean it first, but that's mostly sloshing in a bucket. I'm not worried about the soot from my own brass. So I run a sizer in my Lee APP a lot of times. For bottleneck rounds I would then trim and do whatever else. After all that is done, I then clean.

Dverna is right, brass doesn't have to sparkle. My own opinion though is that if you are going to clean you brass, you may as well get the primer pockets clean. We are way beyond the days of dry tumbling. It takes zero extra effort to have a wet tumbler or ultrasonic cleaner do the work for you with no drawbacks. I don't run mine so long that they look like new brass, and sometimes I have a spec of carbon in a primer pocket, but for the most part all my brass is quite clean. I too waited too long to go to wet cleaning. I would never dry tumble brass again. It doesn't do anything functional at all. You may as well just load dirty brass, which honestly you could load dirty brass with minimal problems. With something like 9mm luger or 45 acp or 38 special, I could see why you might be willing to skip cleaning for the extra productivity. Those cartridges are basically fool proof. I mostly load magnum handguns and bottleneck rifle, so I'm not willing to just send those through a press without at least a little checking over.

There is nothing wrong with sizing on station 2 like you are.

Doesn't seem to be a right or wrong like you say. But I got to thinking about it and figured why not clean the primer pocket only because I want to deprime on the press? Clean brass is good brass I'd say.

[GWS]

I've never used your press, so I needed a little education....and I found these videos that explained what I was confused about....why in the world you would think you might want to size in station 2. That's not done in most other progressives, so I was confused.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iV1uSGJwUSU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TjeyRAKtG3g

Now I see said the blind man.:) On the Loadmaster, Lee recommends depriming first in station one (universal deprimer usually), then removing the depriming rod from the sizer before sizing in station two! It appears that Lee Loadmaster works best that way where the case is sized and centered then primed while so centered, otherwise there is alignment problems. So that's why sizing is in #2. This is foreign to most progressive users, who size in one and prime in two.

Therefore if you already have your spent primers removed before you load (as in depriming before tumbling)....then station one is not used at all.

Then in station three Lee uses a powder-thru expander to expand while dumping the powder.....the only choice. You can't use an expander die because you run out of stations unless you seat and crimp in one station. Which is possible, just not as easy to get it just right.

Some reloaders who want bling brass, deprime all the brass on their main press first.....then load. But since you have an APP too, and you deprime with it....then station one is not needed.

On MY presses I size on one (with no deprimer rod), then use an M-die to expand on two, and prime on two's downstroke, then 3 is used only to charge (no powder-thru expander), then 4 and 5 are seating and taper crimping. M-die seems to align enough....but mine are green presses. Why M-die? Because I prefer their straight wall pockets to the bevels normal expanders make.

[Stopsign32v]

I've never used your press, so I needed a little education....and I found these videos that explained what I was confused about....why in the world you would think you might want to size in station 2. That's not done in most other progressives, so I was confused.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iV1uSGJwUSU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TjeyRAKtG3g

Now I see said the blind man.:) On the Loadmaster, Lee recommends depriming first in station one (universal deprimer usually), then removing the depriming rod from the sizer before sizing in station two! It appears that Lee Loadmaster works best that way where the case is sized and centered then primed while so centered, otherwise there is alignment problems. So that's why sizing is in #2. This is foreign to most progressive users, who size in one and prime in two.

Therefore if you already have your spent primers removed before you load (as in depriming before tumbling)....then station one is not used at all.

Then in station three Lee uses a powder-thru expander to expand while dumping the powder.....the only choice. You can't use an expander die because you run out of stations unless you seat and crimp in one station. Which is possible, just not as easy to get it just right.

Exactly

[GWS]

Exactly

Which begs the question......What if you size on one and use a regular expander on two, powder on three (w/o the ptx), then you still have 4 and 5 to seat and crimp? That must mean Lee's regular expander won't center the case for the priming well enough.

Then another question: What if you have a bullet feeder......on the Loadmaster can you charge with the ptx on 2? That then gives you 3 to feed bullets, then 4 & 5 to seat and crimp? That all depends on the case-activated Powder measure linkage. You'd have to prime off the press first.

[Stopsign32v]

Which begs the question......What if you size on one and use a regular expander on two, powder on three (w/o the ptx), then you still have 4 and 5 to seat and crimp? That must mean Lee's regular expander won't center the case for the priming well enough.

Then another question: What if you have a bullet feeder......on the Loadmaster can you charge with the ptx on 2? That then gives you 3 to feed bullets, then 4 & 5 to seat and crimp? That all depends on the case-activated Powder measure linkage. You'd have to prime off the press first.

Hmmm...What would be the benefit of expanding on 2 and then powder on 3? I'd have to use another powder through die on 3. Wouldn't that be another expander die?

[GWS]

Hmmm...What would be the benefit of expanding on 2 and then powder on 3? I'd have to use another powder through die on 3. Wouldn't that be another expander die?

On most presses you have two ways to expand pistol cases....either an expander die, or a PTX (powder-thru expander) The PTX idea came later when people wanted to consolidate more functions on less stations.....mainly to allow crimping to be a separate function..... Lyman created M-dies later too, to create square cavities 1/16" deep so bullets could be dropped straight and true, without the tendency for a bullet to tilt on the otherwise typical flare or bevel.

Lee Universal expander is not made to drop powder through....it just expands necks, coming with several sizes of plugs, but they only flare. Noe company even makes an "M" style plug in any diameter you need for Lee's universal.....which is what I would prefer. But what I don't know is the answer to your question: if Lee makes a powder die where the p.m. can drop powder directly without expanding, or if they have to have a PTX under it. Here's the two products Lee Universal on the Left, NOE plug on the right. (Noe sells both):

https://i.postimg.cc/qvDJJF8h/Lee-Universal-expanding-die.jpghttps://i.postimg.cc/wjjxdzsY/Noe-expander.jpg
Notice the 1/16" ledge on the Noe rather than a angle as on the Lee plugs.
Noe link: https://noebulletmolds.com/site/product-category/expanders/

Awe! Now I know.....Lee does make powder thru dies that don't expand necks....a long one and a short one. Here's a link to the short one:

https://leeprecision.com/short-charging-die.html

Just place the powder measure on top.....

So then in a nut shell:

0: Deprime brass on the APP and wet tumble
1: Size deprimed brass (no priming rod)
2: Expand with the Universal and proper sized Noe plug and prime (if the universal will work to align the primer pocket)
3: Charge with powder measure over the short or long charging die
4: Seat a bullet
5: Taper crimp.

or

0: On the APP deprime then tumble then prime on a bench or hand primer
1: Size primed brass (depriming rod removed)
2: Expand and Charge with PTX
3: Bullet Feeder
4: Seat
5: Crimp

[jetinteriorguy]

Before I retired my Loadmaster this is my final setup. I deprime off the press, wet tumble brass, then prime off the press. So in the first station I size without the decapping rod, station two expand and charge the case, station three powder check die, station four seat bullet, and station five crimp bullet. I know depriming and priming off the press seems to add work, but IME it eliminates any problems from the presses priming system and I just prime brass while watching tv anyway. Doing it this way allows the use of a powder check die which I prefer to using a station just for priming. One last thing I’d like to mention, all of this is loading pistol ammo, I’d never load rifle ammo on a Loadmaster. After so much frustration with the Loadmaster it now resides in a box in my closet and I went back to just using the Lee Classic Turret for simplicity and dependability. I’ve just recently added a Dillon 550B, it works pretty good but I really need to get used to the rhythm yet.

[Brassmonkey]

I paid for all the stations I'm gonna use all the stations!

Lol sorry couldn't help myself. I don't currently deprime 9mm before wet cleaning but one day I hope too, I just don't like the crud it leaves on the Dillon. Once in a while I get a ringer.

I've only been reloading for 3 years low volume, so I'm still tuning my process for me and results that satisfy me.

[Stopsign32v]

On most presses you have two ways to expand pistol cases....either an expander die, or a PTX (powder-thru expander) The PTX idea came later when people wanted to consolidate more functions on less stations.....mainly to allow crimping to be a separate function..... Lyman created M-dies later too, to create square cavities 1/16" deep so bullets could be dropped straight and true, without the tendency for a bullet to tilt on the otherwise typical flare or bevel.

Lee Universal expander is not made to drop powder through....it just expands necks, coming with several sizes of plugs, but they only flare. Noe company even makes an "M" style plug in any diameter you need for Lee's universal.....which is what I would prefer. But what I don't know is the answer to your question: if Lee makes a powder die where the p.m. can drop powder directly without expanding, or if they have to have a PTX under it. Here's the two products Lee Universal on the Left, NOE plug on the right. (Noe sells both):

https://i.postimg.cc/qvDJJF8h/Lee-Universal-expanding-die.jpghttps://i.postimg.cc/wjjxdzsY/Noe-expander.jpg
Notice the 1/16" ledge on the Noe rather than a angle as on the Lee plugs.
Noe link: https://noebulletmolds.com/site/product-category/expanders/

Awe! Now I know.....Lee does make powder thru dies that don't expand necks....a long one and a short one. Here's a link to the short one:

https://leeprecision.com/short-charging-die.html

Just place the powder measure on top.....

So then in a nut shell:

0: Deprime brass on the APP and wet tumble
1: Size deprimed brass (no priming rod)
2: Expand with the Universal and proper sized Noe plug and prime (if the universal will work to align the primer pocket)
3: Charge with powder measure over the short or long charging die
4: Seat a bullet
5: Taper crimp.

or

0: On the APP deprime then tumble then prime on a bench or hand primer
1: Size primed brass (depriming rod removed)
2: Expand and Charge with PTX
3: Bullet Feeder
4: Seat
5: Crimp

Now that is some good thinking! I didn't know about the NOE inserts or the Lee univeral powder dies. I think I'm going to try the first idea you have.

[dverna]

GWS,

I want to thank you for the informative posts on the Loadmaster press. Very educational.

I doubt I will ever own one, but your posts demonstrated why what is "normal" for most presses does not apply to every press. It makes me wonder how many people trashed the LoadMaster and did not read the instructions...thinking it works the same as every other press. Not many frugal people, who are the target market for Lee, will have a spare die to aid in primer operation.

Priming is always the fly in the ointment when it comes to progressives and Lee has a bad (maybe well earned?) reputation for issues. The most reliable priming system I have ever used was on the Star reloaders. Not one bit of plastic "crap" to fail.

Anyway, good write up and I learned from it.

[GWS]

GWS,

I want to thank you for the informative posts on the Loadmaster press. Very educational.

I doubt I will ever own one, but your posts demonstrated why what is "normal" for most presses does not apply to every press. It makes me wonder how many people trashed the LoadMaster and did not read the instructions...thinking it works the same as every other press. Not many frugal people, who are the target market for Lee, will have a spare die to aid in primer operation.

Priming is always the fly in the ointment when it comes to progressives and Lee has a bad (maybe well earned?) reputation for issues. The most reliable priming system I have ever used was on the Star reloaders. Not one bit of plastic "crap" to fail.

Anyway, good write up and I learned from it.

You are welcome...I try to help out when I can. But, I too learned from last night's research on it. I don't own any Lee's except for the APP (which I love), an original Target Lee Loader, and a few Lee hand primers over the years. However I remember a video done by jmorris on the Loadmaster......he wanted to see if he could make the Load Master work after hearing several naysayers tear it down. Not only did he succeed, but he ran it faster than I've seen any progressive go. Maybe he will see this thread and post it here for the O.P. to enjoy.

If I've learned anything about reloading, I've learned that you can make things work best by following directions......which is not the first step for many of us, including me.

For example, I bought the swager tool for the APP when it first came out, and my immediate experience was, "this stupid thing won't swage reliably period.".....then I studied the directions with a fine tooth comb, and tried it again......worked well. In fact my RCBS bench swager now sits on a shelf. Not that it doesn't work......it's just not even close to as fast as one with a case feeder!!!. In fact, a case feeder on a single station press, which only Lee has given us, is revolutionary. In ten years every single station press will have one. We can learn a few things from Lee. Always best to keep our minds open.

And don't write off plastic parts.....since I've been making things on a 3d printer, I learned a few more things. Plastic is crap, where aluminum or steel is needed. Aluminum is crap, where steel is needed. But some things do just fine with plastic where wear is near non-existent. Like these 3d printed bullet feeder dies for example:

https://i.postimg.cc/cCFXDZGQ/IMG_3947.jpg
and they cost just a dollar or two in plastic...plus the two #3 ball bearings and the springs you see in the picture. And they work better than Hornady or RCBS ones and just as good as DAA's. Same can be said for bullet and case collators.

[Stopsign32v]

That will probably be the next thing I do after getting this press to run good. A nice bullet feeder setup.

[243winxb]

I would not oven dry.

[Stopsign32v]

I would not oven dry.

Why?

[guzma393]

Pretty late to the ball game with this post, but I figured to provide input based on experience:

- I personally don't find it to be a requirement to deprime before wet tumbling, but there are definite pro's to doing so; helps the brass dry faster, can inspect primer flash hole, fully take advantage of SS steel pin wet tumbling, etc. Personally, I don't normally run SS pins when I wet tumble, but when I do, it is applicable to decapped cases to take advantage of SS pins being able to clean the primer pockets.

- I actually keep the first hole on my lee loadmaster un-used. Too many mis-aligned case mishaps when doing long, narrow cases >223 length, which can be a problem for powder charge/resizing/decap operations. It could just be my loadmaster, but lee's "universal" take on their shellplates means looser tolerances, resulting in mis-aligned cases on the first station. I am also not a big fan of the primer system, so I removed it and de-prime on the second station and size on the third station.

- Cooking the brass as 250 degrees is fine as long as you know it's actually outputting heat that will not "overcook" your brass. I've also noticed that heating brass to dry them slightly tarnishes them, so i opted to just fan/air-dry instead to preserve the luster of the brass.

[243winxb]

My brass came out of the oven looking like case hardening on some receivers. Can't be good? Or is it?

The sun will dry them this time of year. In winter brass sits over the boiler for a day. Primers in. Water shaken out of each case. More so bottle neck brass, 223,243....

[megasupermagnum]

Oven drying is fine if you use a little foresight. The lowest my oven goes is 170. I preheat, put in the brass, and turn the oven off. Brass never gets over 170, probably less, and is fully dry in maybe 30 minutes. Drying in the sun likely gets them just as hot, but you need to rotate them usually. They won't fully dry if you just set them out there unless you leave it out there for hours. Generally I just set them near a window and leave them for a few days.

[oley55]

Oven drying is fine if you use a little foresight. The lowest my oven goes is 170. I preheat, put in the brass, and turn the oven off. Brass never gets over 170, probably less, and is fully dry in maybe 30 minutes. Drying in the sun likely gets them just as hot, but you need to rotate them usually. They won't fully dry if you just set them out there unless you leave it out there for hours. Generally I just set them near a window and leave them for a few days.

weak North Dakota sun will do that I guess. Mine get spread out on a dark colored bath towel in the sun and they will be bone dry in 45 minutes. I do swish them back and forth in a heavy towel to shake loose clinging water before setting them out to dry on a different dry towel. The hood of my truck works perfectly for that. I deprime before cleaning or drying though.

I spent a couple years in the South Carolina lowlands and their sun is hotter than Florida sun IMO. Or so it felt.

[jetinteriorguy]

Oven drying is fine if you use a little foresight. The lowest my oven goes is 170. I preheat, put in the brass, and turn the oven off. Brass never gets over 170, probably less, and is fully dry in maybe 30 minutes. Drying in the sun likely gets them just as hot, but you need to rotate them usually. They won't fully dry if you just set them out there unless you leave it out there for hours. Generally I just set them near a window and leave them for a few days.
This is how I do it as well, except I leave the oven on for 30 minutes. I follow with an hour in the tumbler with crushed walnut and a shot of Nufinish. This gives me a nice long lasting shine.

[gwpercle]

I would not wet tumble without removing the primers. If you store your brass you will have "ringers" when you remove the primers. The face of the primer will be removed and the primer walls will stay in the pocket.

I'd set up the APP with a universal deprimer.

Moisture causes the primer walls to corrode slightly and grip the pocket ... the face punches through and leaves the ring-o-brass in the pocket .
Deprime before wet tumbling ... having the primer out helps with complete case drying ...
better air circulation !
Gary

[BLAHUT]

I deprime brass do not dry well if wet tumble before depriming just saying ??

[deces]

Wet tumbling is great, you never have to worry about accumulating lead dust around your domicile when cleaning brass. Depriming with a Lee APP first, has made case preparation really easy for me. I'm thinking about trying Lee power quick trim on the APP next time.