baby roller

[Bullshop]

Today has been an historic ocasion for our shop. Today we received one of the splendid little rollers that was a 32 RF but is now a 32 short CF.
I have wanted one since forever but this is the first. After disasembeling the cute little thing I found that I will need a new hammer pivot pin. The one in it is rather sad looking. Breach block pivot looks good, extractor good, main spring OK, barrel fair. A slug pushed all the way through is consistantly tight all the way through, and yealds a nicely engraved slug of .310".
This rifle has a Remington barrel but may not be a Remington action. It has an interesting feature that I have not heard of in a Rem. The hammer goes past full cock to a safty position. At this position it will not fire but will open and load. When loaded and ready to fire the hammer is pushed forward and snapps into the fireing position.
Possibly not being a full blooded Ren roller I wonder if a Rem hammer pivot may fit. If not I will have to make one. If anyone has any experiance with these little gems I would like to learn some about them.
This receiver has no lower tang, just an upper. The stock bolt goes through the upper tang and fits to a nut set in the stock where the lower tang would be. Again I have quite a bit of experiance with the full size rollers but I know nothing about these little guys so maybe the hammer and tang things are normal for Rem. Somebody teach me sumthin.
And BTW where does one get 32 short brass? I checked at Starline but the shortest they have is the long case. Will I be forced to trim those? Anybody have some longs or shorts they want to sell/trade?
BIC/BS

[Buckshot]

...............Dan, so it's chambered for the 32 S&W? Winchester still loads it if it is. We need pictures, dude!

................Buckshot

[Bullshop]

Well I duno for sure. Heres the deal a 32 long goes about half way in but turn it around and the rim is perfect. A 32 acp goes almost all the way but not quite. Rim is a bit small but it has a generous extracter that may catch. A 32 short from Jr's collection fits perfect, rim extracter n all. I could prolly shorten up some acp's cuz they are closest in length but why bother Tina found some Win brand 32 short colt at Midway and she orderd some, bless her heart. She just cant stand ta see me cry like that dont ya know!
This little sweet heart should go a long ways on a pound of powder. Having a 310" groove makes more molds usable too. I will see if I can get (beg) Jr. to get some pics. Cute lil bugger it is! Seems to wisper squirrreeelll, raabbbiiiittttt !!!
BIC/BS

[Pavogrande]

It is possible you have a Crescent rolling block -- Looks very similiar to the #4 Remington but has a different take down mechanism -- The 32 short colt and 32 S&W are about the same length but are different diameters ---
The small RBs, stevens, hopkins and allens, and other like single shots are fun to play with and usually don't break the bank.

[Bret4207]

At last! Something I know about! I've done 2 or 3 of these conversions. When you go from 32 RF to 32 S+W CF there are a couple thing to keep in mind. #1- the barrel on a 32 S+W runs .312ish, 32 RF is .310ish. #2 the 32 RF is a tad smaller diameter than 32 S+W/Long/Mag/327 Mag. You can rent a reamer or get a chucking reamer from some place like MSC and open it a little. I can't recall the body size but it's something like .340 in 32 S+W and the RF is .330 or something like that.

The 32 S+W or 32 S+W Long is a great small game cartridge. Real easy on powder and lead. The 32 S+W is a pain for any man with full size finger to reload. Also- you may notice each 32 S+W and some Long cases have a funny bulge a head of the rim. I've seen this in lots of guns. Near as I can tell the case is so short the die doesn't resize the whole thing. I dunno, it's a guess. BTW- the 32 S+W doesn't need lube to resize even with steel dies.

Go have fun!

[pietro]

I think you'll find that your rifle might be actually chambered for the .32 Colt Short and not the .32 S&W Short.

I've had three of those little darlings, the last one with a centerfire conversion.

All their barrels are marked on the bottom flat, near the serial number, with a simple ".32" - quite possible because there was no CF .32 invented yet, at the time of mfg - and if the original chambering was the .32 Colt Short RF, ILO the .32 Colt Long RF - a CF conversion to centerfire .32 Colt Short seems likely, just as mine was done.

Loaded .32 Colt Short ammo is currently commercially produced by Winchester, at least - and maybe by other makers.
I paid $30 for a box/50, in stock at the Kittery (ME)Trading Post last year, just to get brass. ( www.ktp.com )

In any event, the Short will, of course, fire in the Long chamber, if that's what you might have - still an EZ way to get shooting.

.

[NoDakJak]

Be gentle with it. Those single tangs are rather fragile and break easily. I have seen a couple silver soldered together but most were/are brazed together. About thirty years ago I bought one in 22 from an old codger. Many years previously he had broken the tang so brazed a 1860 Colt pistol grip to it. It had a crude skeleton stock brazed to the pistol grip that he said was made of a pirce of broken buggy rim. It looked even cruder than it sounds but the old boy cackled when he said that over the past fifty years he had shot a boxcar load of game with it including many deer. Hmmm! Neil

[Bullshop Junior]

http://pictures.auctionarms.com/7426172628/img_8999.jpg_thumbnail1.jpg?aa=20090128211114

http://pictures.auctionarms.com/7426172628/img_9002.jpg_thumbnail1.jpg?aa=20090128211114

http://pictures.auctionarms.com/7426172628/img_9004.jpg_thumbnail1.jpg?aa=20090128211114

http://pictures.auctionarms.com/7426172628/img_9000.jpg_thumbnail1.jpg?aa=20090128211114

http://pictures.auctionarms.com/7426172628/img_9001.jpg_thumbnail1.jpg?aa=20090128211114

http://pictures.auctionarms.com/7426172628/img_9005.jpg_thumbnail1.jpg?aa=20090128211114

[Bullshop]

NDJ
As you can see this one has been brazed. Wonder if I can add a lower?

[Bent Ramrod]

Looks like a Remington #4 Takedown that somebody has altered the takedown pin on to make the barrel attachment permanent. They only had the top tang, with the screw going into the escutcheon on the bottom of the grip. It should have the Remington markings on the top barrel flat.

I would guess that you would do as well making a new pin for the hammer. If it is worn, the hole in the hammer probably is too. and a tight sliding fit is the key to keeping the breeching tight on those rolling blocks, especially if they have been converted to centerfire.

What is that little circle on the top of the breechblock? Did somebody drill a gas escape port? I've not seen a hole there in other #4s.

[Pavogrande]

It does look like a #4 takedown modified to solid -- Not a crescent as the take-down hole is to far forward -- No matter you will enjoy it --

[pietro]

Thank you for the clear pics of your #4 roller.

As the others have said, it's definitely a converted takedown.

The downside of that is that, while neither the solid frame nor the takedown are up to strenuous loads, the takedown action is appreciably weaker than the solid frame model, as the area holding the barrel is thinner.

The weakest point on all of these baby RB's is the lack of material around the roller pivots.

More can be read about them in DeHaas' book "SINGLE SHOT RIFLES", including safe conversions, gunsmithing, model number/years, etc, etc.

Extractors & springs ( a PITA) are available from Wisners, IIRC.

.

[Bullshop]

Having no pryer experiance with these I am starting at the begining of the curve.
Perhaps someone here may be able to shed some light on this for me.
I was told from the man I got this from that the action is Belgiun, but the barrel is Remington.
This brings up some questions for me. If that is true is it a copy of a Rem made under contract? If so will Rem parts fit?
I am thinking of having the barrel relined to 22 cal and since I have a 22 manard reamer chambering to that. That brings up the issue of the extracter and having to reduce its size to catch the smaller rim. If the Rem parts fit perhaps an extracter for a 22 rf can be made to work. The extracter on this is the bottom half of the chamber face so encircles a good portion of the rim. Is that the same as a Rem ?
Sorry but I got lots ta learn!
BIC/BS

[Pavogrande]

I am inclined to agree with the relining to 22rf option -- It looks to be in very good condition, although not perfect, so relining should not detract much from its collector value and provide a much more usable weapon -- Extractor would be only other mod needed --- looking at mine (22rf takedown) it appears the 32 extractor may be short -- Not sure if building it up or a new extractor the best option -- Conversion to 32 S&W long would at least require a relocated firing pin or replaced block -- a lot more work -- Dehaas indicates they are strong enough for the 32 long, but I still thing the 22rf more useful -- my ha-penny

[Cap'n Morgan]

I was told from the man I got this from that the action is Belgiun

Bullshop,

Now that sounds interesting. I have a rusty Belgian RB action with an octagon/tapered shotshell barrel stashed away somewhere - the gauge is 13mm if I remember correctly.

I'll try dig it out and compare it to the pics of your gun - perhaps take a few measurements to see if the actions are indeed related.

I've been toying with the idea of restoring the gun, but with only a barrel, an action housing and a trigger guard, it's more work than I care to think about.

[Bullshop]

If it is Belgian the Rem barrel seems to have fit nicely. It is a Rem barrel as it is so marked. If this is so perhaps other parts will interchange also.
I looked at the gunparts catalog today and they show very little by way of parts for this.
Does anyone know of a source for parts?
BIC/BS

[Bent Ramrod]

Bullshop,

There is a picture of a Belgian copy of a Remington #4 on page 225 of Grant's Boys' Single Shot Rifles which looks pretty close to the #4 but the hammer spur and the tab on the breech block are more curled than the original. (Yours looks more like the original.) But this might be a variation that was not common to all the copies. The Remington had a forged receiver, unusual for a boy's rifle; if the tang of yours was snapped off and brazed back, it might be a casting, which could be expected in a copy. You might check the screws in your action to see if they are metric, that might indicate foreign manufacture. It should have the little tower or column on stepped base proofmark if it was made in Belgium also.

The action would have to be a very exact internal copy of the Remington for the barrels to be interchangeable. The Remington takedown barrel has a taper on the shank, and the bottom of the breech end is milled away for the half-circle extractor, as on your example. You will have to fill in the .32 extractor and recut the rim countersink for a .22 caliber.

A Maynard centerfire sounds pretty neat. I hope to chamber one of my old clunkers to that caliber someday myself.

Don't know where to find parts for those rifles. Unless you luck out at a gun show or Gun Parts has uncatalogued stuff you can call on, the only other recourse would be an ad in the Single Shot Exchange or on the ASSRA Wanted forum.

[Bullshop]

Bent Ramrod
If ya ever get around ta doin that Maynard remember we got the reamer. Maybe that will help push ya over the edg.
Thanks for all the help folks.
BIC/B

[Bret4207]

Dang Dan, if you're going to go to all that trouble of relining why not just get a 22 barrel and do it that way. I NEED that #4 barrel bad. I'd pay you good money for it.

[badgeredd]

Dan,

I just found this on Gunbroker. It is a Remington #4 and it looks like your roller. Thought you might like to look at it for a comparison.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=121581746

Edd