The Homeboy 5 Cavity Bullet Mold

[HotGuns]

For a couple of years I have been searching for a nice clean bullet to shoot through my suppressed Remington in .300 Whisper. I've searched and searched and just gave up.

After reading the "perfessors" excellent thread on making bullet molds, it motivated me to just go ahead and make one.

So here are a few pictures. Not the best, but for now they will have to do.
I used a Lee 6 cavity mold as a rough guide, making the sprue plate pretty much the same, with the lever to break the sprue.

This pictures shows the single flute drill that I used to form the cavities, it worked much better than I expected. I chucked it up in the lathe, turned the dia. to .309, and used a file to get a somewhat pointed profile. My goal here is to make a heavy lead bullet with a decent ballistic coefficient.

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b130/HotGuns/IDCard02002.jpg

Here you can see the vent line that I made by using a fly cutter on the mill. You notice that this bullet is LONG. My goal is to be somewhere around 250 grains. Thats just a guess at this point, until I mold one up and weigh it, I wont know.

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b130/HotGuns/IDCard02005.jpg


This picture shows the handle. I was going to chop off a piece pf broomstick and drill it out for the tang, and just jam it on there. As I was walking around looking for something suitable, I saw this file handle sitting there on the bench looking lonely...but for the most part it was already made. I trimmed it down a bit and modified my tang on the sprue breaker and stuck it on there. Don't laugh...it works...:mrgreen:

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b130/HotGuns/IDCard02003.jpg

Last but not least, a picture of the whole thing. In the back is a Lee 6 cavity sprue cutter that I took off a mold to use as a reference. The whole thing didn't take as long to make as I thought it would and it looks pretty good I think. Now I have a custom mold that I didn't have to wait six months for that I can say that I built.

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b130/HotGuns/IDCard02001.jpg

A word about the single flute drill. I used drill rod and heated it to a cherry red. I then tempered it, using flame until it turned blue and let it air cool. It worked very well. I've seen references used for these, I never could understand, and still don't how in the heck they cut with no relief on them but as you can see, it did a great job and the finish is smoother than most of my factory cut molds are. I used a moderate speed, kept it flooded with WD-40 and kept the chips blown out using air.

I chose to use a smooth bullet. There is no gas check or lube grooves. Since I will be shooting these though a suppressor, I didn't want to "gunk" it up. I'll use the Lee lube made for tumble lubes, that ought to suffice. Since these bullets will only be moving around 1050 FPS, a gas check isn't needed. The smooth design and the nose profile will hopefully give me a better BC than what is out there on the market.

This ought to be killer for deer.

What do you think?

:castmine:

[Doc Highwall]

Nice job, now you are making me think about making a mould.

[jhrosier]

..... What do you think?

:castmine:

I think that you do darn nice work and take good photos too!

I for one, am very interested to hear how this boolit performs.

I am working up the funds to buy a chamber reamer and dies for the Whisper so I am interested in your progress in loading boolits for this caliber.

Thanks for the great writeup.:drinks:

Jack

[jhrosier]

BTW, you are going to need about a 10" twist, or maybe even shorter, to stabilize that boolit.

Jack

[HotGuns]

One in ten aint fast enough.

Right now I am using a 1 in 8 for 220 grain Sierra's.
Thats on a Shilen match grade barrel that I built and put on the Rem. 700.
It's shooting 5/8 groups at 100 yards using 8.2 grains of AA #5.

[RayinNH]

HotGuns, when are going to start accepting group buy orders :-D...Ray

[HotGuns]

I barely have enough time to make one for me...

Too much work.

[smilie=1:

[jhrosier]

HotGuns,

About how long is the throat on your chamber?

Jack

[HotGuns]

The chamber is just standard, I used a go gauge on it.

Thats the reason that I made this mold.
The longer .30's are very blunt, thus the bullet must be loaded way into the case just to get them to chamber.

Using the spitser design allows much more of the bullet to enter in before it engages the rifling. The full diameter of the bullet is almost midway on this bullet. As a result, it ought to be better than what I am able to buy.

Make sense?

[jhrosier]

T...The full diameter of the bullet is almost midway on this bullet....
Make sense?

OK, now I see it. Seems to make sense now.

I have a longer twist barrel and was thinking of using 150-170 gr boolits.
I'm not looking for subsonic performance.
I would like to keep them just a bit supersonic out to 200 yards.

Jack

[HotGuns]

The 1 in 10's will work great for that.

It requires a 1 in 8 to stabilize the long bullet. I have a .300 Whisper barrel Contender custom shop that is a 1 in 10.

That thing has the 220 coming out sideways at 25 yards at subsonic. With the 150 and 180 at supersonic though, its pretty accurate.

[garandsrus]

HotGuns,

Very nice!

My only suggestion would be to not take the corner of the sprue plate off. It will allow lead to get on top of the mold blocks if there is any spillage.

John

[HotGuns]

The corner of the sprue plate is gone to reduce the movement that it takes to clear the bullet hole. Its pretty much the same as the factory Lee 6 bangers. As far as I know, I havent had any issues with them.

Interesting observation though. Hopefully I wont wish that I had left that corner there. The beauty of it is, if it gets to be an issue I'll just make one with the corner left on it.

[Junior1942]

Man, you're an outstanding machinist. Beautiful work!

Questions: (1) Why not just use a Lee 6-hole sprue plate? (2) How quiet is a 300 Whisper?

[HotGuns]

Questions: (1) Why not just use a Lee 6-hole sprue plate? (2) How quiet is a 300 Whisper?


didn't have one laying around.

If you were standing in your kitchen and I was in the living room and the TV was on, you wouldn't hear the shot.

[theperfessor]

Very, very nice work! +1 for your efforts. Looking forward to reading of results.

[Willbird]

That type of single flute drill is often called a "D reamer". My Dad taught me how to make them, typically they have .001" of relief around the body behind the cutting edge, this is applied by hand. Some Old timer gunsmiths have told me they make chambering reamers this way and they are just as accurate as a factory made fluted reamer, the catch is you cannot crown them when chambering.

I see you ran the pilots or dowels right on the aluminum ?? That may need eventully bored out for a bushing.

I hope your suppressor comes apart for cleaning :-).

[HotGuns]

I thought about bushing the the dowels and it may get to the point where eventually I'll need to do that. My Hoch nose pour bullet mold is that way, so I thought I'd try it.

So you are supposed to releive them? I didnt and it cut pretty good. Is it done with a file or a stone or what?

My suppressor does come apart,very easily. The way I built it is with a monolithic baffle stack that has .020 clearance to the tube. I can unscrew the cap and it'll fall right out for cleaning.

[copdills]

Very nice peice of work there , let us know how it works:castmine:

[HotGuns]

Today I casted up 50 bullets. With that 5 holer, it didn't take very long.

It took awhile for the mold to heat up, there is a lot of mass there. I was a bit disappointed at first, the bullets didn't drop out as easily as they should have. As the mold got hotter and after I sprayed some "Drop Out" on them, that pretty much cured that problem.

A weighing several bullets they were all very consistent. I was hoping for bullets that would weight at least 250 grains and I have exceeded that. These bullets weight right at 275.1 grains. I think I'll leave them alone. I shot two through the Whisper just for feed and function checks and they were good. There was a noticeable amount of recoil, even for a suppressed round. The shots were quiet, the bullets hitting the plywood sounded like someone smacking them with a brick.

The bullets came out nice and long and when put in the case, its almost a compressed charge, but not quite. It looks like this ought to be a very accurate combo of bullet and case and its probably the practical limit for the .300 Whisper on a Remington 700 rifle. The bullets measure out at .3094. Good enough for me. Sizing one in a .309 die shows very little deformation.

So far my initial indication is that every thing went as planned. When I load a bunch up and try them for accuracy at 100 yards, then I'll know for sure if I can call it a successful endeavor or a complete waste of time. Even so, it was fun building it.

Here is a pic.

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b130/HotGuns/IDCard02006.jpg

[Willbird]

What are you lubricating them with ?? Dad stoned D reamers to privide the .001 relief, aluminum is probably very forgiving. If you ever use a D reamer on steel white lead works very nicely as a lubricant, not sure where you would even find it today.

Bill

[HotGuns]

Alox.

White Lead is great stuff. It worked so well that the EPA banned it. I use to have a can in my box but I eventually used it up.

[HotGuns]

Scratch the ALOX. I think Im going to try Moly Coating the bullets.

Any thoughts on that?

[Cap'n Morgan]

its almost a compressed charge, but not quite

Please be careful not to seat the bullet too deep! Pressure will rise dramatically with a small case/heavy bullet like this.

Nice mold, by the way...

[Willbird]

Scratch the ALOX. I think Im going to try Moly Coating the bullets.

Any thoughts on that? I have never moly coated cast bullets, I did impact plate some with tungsten dioxide then lube sized them and it did not make any difference, IE they still leaded.

Bill

[deltaenterprizes]

White lead can be made by putting a piece of lead in vinegar for a few days and mixing the white stuff (lead oxide) with linseed oil or some other oil or grease.

[garandsrus]

Impact plating moly works very well. I usually run my tumbler for about 30 minutes. It does make a mess of the tumbler bowl though. You can put the boolits in a babyfood jar (with the tumbler media in the bowl) or something similar to keep the mess out of the tumbler.

After coating with moly, I tumble with sawdust for about 10 minutes. It buffs the boolits and removes any excess moly.

I have only coated jacketed bullets...

John

[HotGuns]

Thats sounds good, thats what I plan on doing. Tumbling in a jar.

We'll see how it works out.

[Maven]

Shouldn't the reaction between lead and vinegar (acetic acid) -> lead acetate rather than lead oxide?

[deltaenterprizes]

It wouldn't be the first time I was wrong, my remember is broke, but I am sure lead oxide is white. Try it and see if it works, I will check with my chemist.

[longbow]

HotGuns:

Nice looking mould and boolits!

I have been making simple pushout moulds for cylindrical boolits for about 30 years. I have only made single cavity so far but plan to make a 4 or more cavity mould for .30 cal.

I use the D reamer too with no relief and have had no problem at all with brass, bronze or steel. I have 3 or 4 steel moulds, I just sent a bronze mould to a friend and of course brass machines very easily.

The pushout moulds are very simple to make and I find work as well or better than split moulds without the hassel of of centering the cavity. Not a criticism of your split mould at all, it is a beauty! I expect a split multi cavity mould would be a little faster to cast with than my pushouts but they are easier to make (I'm lazy).

I have had success by knurling the boolits and dip lubing or tumble lubing. For your application a light knurl may hold just enough lube to prevent leading without gucking up your supressor ~ if leading is a problem. Moly may work well with a light knurl too.

I got to say that is one nice looking boolit! I keep thinking about a real heavy one for my .303. Heaviest I have made so far is 215 gr. I better get back to the lathe, you've inspired me!

Longbow

[felix]

Yes, Maven, you are correct. Now, are you ready for the baddie? Lead acetate is very much a poison. ... felix

[NSP64]

Yes, Maven, you are correct. Now, are you ready for the baddie? Lead acetate is very much a poison. ... felix

More poisoness than.............................................. ......lead?[smilie=1:

[35 Whelen]

What do you think?

I think it's time for the Christmas tablecloth to go!:razz:

Nice looking mould!

35W

[HotGuns]

I think it's time for the Christmas tablecloth to go

You are absolutely correct.

[lavenatti]

If you're talking about the white lead they used to use in paint, that's lead carbonate.

Lead acetate (sugar of lead) is water soluble and because of this it is pretty toxic, it can be absorbed through the skin so be careful if you are playing with it.

There's 3 oxides of lead, white (really kind of yellow) is the monoxide, brown (the stuff in car batteries) is the dioxide and red (minium) is the tetroxide. Again, it would be good to be careful if you're going to use any of them.

[Nobade]

Hi, did you do the whole cavity with that drill? Or did you use a regular drill to rough it out first? I have been thinking about doing something very similar but haven't tried it yet. You do good work, it looks nice!

[HotGuns]

I used a regular drill to rough most of it out. I used the single flute reamer to "clean" it up.

I set my Digital readout on the column of my mill and went to the same zero each time, so that the length of each bullet is consistant. Having a digital readout on 4 axis saves alot of time.

[Red River Rick]

HotGuns:

Very nice work, indeed, and a interesting thread. Another "Craftsman" at work.

RRR

[deltaenterprizes]

Shouldn't the reaction between lead and vinegar (acetic acid) -> lead acetate rather than lead oxide?

My chemist confirmed that it is lead acetate.

[45&30-30]

Amazing work, thanks for sharing.

[arclight]

Just wondering, how are you doing the knurling? I'm looking to do another mold for .32 ACP, and I'd like to try that trick.

Thanks,

Arclight

[QUOTE=longbow;481981]HotGuns:

Nice looking mould and boolits!

I have been making simple pushout moulds for cylindrical boolits for about 30 years. I have only made single cavity so far but plan to make a 4 or more cavity mould for .30 cal.

[longbow]

arclight:

I made a tool that puts small annular rings on the boolit. If you scroll down to post #9 you can see a mould and boolits that have been knurled:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=18991&highlight=longbow

Scroll down to post #11 here for a couple of photos of my crude but effective knurling tool:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=18089&highlight=knurl

Corbin offers a much nicer unit for not too much money now too:

http://www.corbins.com/hct-2.htm

They offer knurling and grooving tools but originally they said you couldn't knurl hard lead so I figured a grooved roll with sharp profile edges would work which it did. Might be easier to buy a Corbin tool and replace the knurl roll with a home made grooving roll like mine.

I groove. oven heat treat when required, then dip lube or tumble lube.

Longbow

[Buckshot]

................Hot Guns, neat stuff there guy! Looks like nice carefull work, and yes those cavities came out really nice. So while you were machining them you used WD40 and compressed air, HA! Were you or the machine totally enclosed? I can imagine, but hate the thought of all that tiny aluminum swarf floating around :-) Once again, some very fine work. What did you use for the spruplate and the mould blocks?

..................Buckshot

[leftiye]

Isn't that stuff that life guards put on their noses, and the stuff they use for diaper rash Lead oxide?

[HotGuns]

Buckshot...

Actually, it wasnt that bad. The WD-40 can comes with a spray tube, which I used to flush out the cavitys. The blocks themselves are 6061-T6 and the sprue plate is some scrap I aquired at work that it 517 boiler plate.

Like always, the aluminum chips saturated with WD-40 were no fun to clean up, but I have seen it alot worse.

[longbow]

HotGuns:

Have you shot any yet? I'm sure everyone is interested to see how they shoot. I'm betting they do well for you. Sure are good lookin' boolits out of a good lookin' mould!

Longbow

[HotGuns]

No, I'm still waiting for the Moly Coat from Midway to get here. I'll Moly coat several and see what it does then.

[Red River Rick]

They offer knurling and grooving tools but originally they said you couldn't knurl hard lead....

Longbow

I have to disagree with you on that one Longbow. I have a Corbin PCM, and you can knurl, staight or diamond, on any lead bullet, pure lead or Lino. How do they put the cannalure groove in "J" bullets?

RRR

[longbow]

Red River Rick:

From the Corbin site:

"Can I use the HCT-2 with hard lead bullets?"

"The HCT-2 works best with soft lead or lead not over Bhn 8-10 (medium) hardness. The entire shank of the bullet is knurled, which can require far too much effort with hard lead. It is easy with soft lead."

They don't say it won't work but my take from that statement was that it wasn't practical with hard alloys. I suppose ACWW would be the upper limit for hardness.

Anyway, I just made up a roller with annular rings figuring I could remove some if it was tough going ~ it isn't so I haven't bothered changing anything. I oven heat treat after knurling for my .303.

Sorry HotGuns, not trying to hijack your thread here. I got off on a tangent.

Longbow

[Red River Rick]

FWIW, just some of the possibilities:

[HotGuns]

Got the Moly Coat today. Put them in a small plastic jar with about a teaspoon of Moly and ran them for a couple of hours. Heres a picture.
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b130/HotGuns/IDCard02002-1.jpg

It doesn't look a whole lot different than the lead does, but its alot slicker.
Maybe they'll work. Hopefully can load some up this weekend and shoot some to see how stable they are. If not, I'll cut the top of the mold down until they are stable, it'll just take some trial and error.

If these shoot as well as the Sierras do, they'll be a whole lot cheaper. When the socialist scumbags in the present administration try to tax bullets into oblivion or make ammo so expensive that no one can afford it, at least I'll have something to play with.

[longbow]

They sure do look nice. I hope they work well for you.

Keep us posted.

Longbow

[PatMarlin]

Outstanding .....!!!!

Where do you find the professor's thread. I think I missed that.

[HotGuns]

Here ya go...
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=38573

[PatMarlin]

HotGuns:

Nice looking mould and boolits!

I have been making simple pushout moulds for cylindrical boolits for about 30 years. I have only made single cavity so far but plan to make a 4 or more cavity mould for .30 cal.



Like minds- I've been working on a multi cavity for my 22 cal marlette.

[legend]

wow! nice job and pictures.thanks,keep us posted

[Willbird]

One thing about knurling that many people do not consider, to work WELL the knurls have to be at a pitch that fits your diameter(actually your circumference...)....if the knurl is not the proper pitch you will end up with say 15.5 notches around the bullet instead of 16 or 15. So the knurl will work better on a harder bullet if the pitch is correct. I knurled things in a lathe for 20 years before I learned that fact from Practical Machinest. it is amazing really when you think about it how well it works just slapdash using what is there on hand for knurls.

Bill

[EMC45]

Also saw somewhere that someone used a flint wheel from a disposable lighter and fitted it to a homemade knurling contraption. Pretty neat.

[Harmon_Greer]

that is very cool.

How hard would it be to put lube grooves on that kind of bullet?

Harmon

[Boomer Mikey]

I wonder if the test loads were ever shot?

Great thread!

As I understand it the molly coating alone isn't enough lube and heavy leading may happen. The usual process is to coat the bullets with a carnauba wax coating after the molly is applied.

Boomer :Fire:

[Wayne Smith]

My moly kit uses steel pieces to impact the boolit and drive the moly in. How sticky is moly, anyway?