Remington 1 1/2 primers BEWARE

[Hi-Speed]

Received and began using Remington 1 1/2 primers in 38 Spl +P loads. I’m getting pierced primers using N340 and AA5 in velocity ranges 960-980 fps with 158 gr cast in my Ruger 4 5/8 inch. I never had pierced primers using Fed 100 or CCI500 at these velocities and above. The 1 1/2 primers are not piercing with Power Pistol and 158 gr bullets at 925 fps +/-. Seems any shot string with an entry of 965 fps and above, there will be some pierced 1 1/2 primers. Again Fed100 and CCI500 work flawlessly without ever any pierced primers.

I seriously doubt my 960-980 fps loads which pierced exceed 25k psi, level Remington says not to go above with their 1 1/2 primers.

[NSB]

Check your firing pin.

[Kraschenbirn]

_____ ^ _____ What he said. For years, I've used Rem. 1 1/2s with AA#5 in .32-20s for my '85 Win. Low Wall with no problems.

Bill

[Soundguy]

agreed.. check fire pin!

[Mal Paso]

Could be the primer cup brass too. Winchester had a bad batch 8-10 years ago. Eroded the firing pin bushing on a 610. Gunsmith blamed the primers. Whole shebang went back to Smith and Wesson as the bushing had to be fit.

The firing pin may have contributed because why just that gun? I know the gunsmith though and he knows his stuff.

[oley55]

Could be the primer cup brass too. Winchester had a bad batch 8-10 years ago. Eroded the firing pin bushing on a 610. Gunsmith blamed the primers. Whole shebang went back to Smith and Wesson as the bushing had to be fit.

The firing pin may have contributed because why just that gun? I know the gunsmith though and he knows his stuff.

Yep, I got a few bad bricks of Winchester Large Rifle in 2014 and Winchester stepped up and was willing to replace rifle bolts and of course all the primers with that lot number. These were piercing along the edge of the cup and no where near the firing pin indents.

The OP didn't say where the piercing is occurring, cup or firing pin area (although we assume firing pin). A bit more info could help.

[Hi-Speed]

The firing pin was examined and is fine. I even used my nearly new Ruger BH, still blackened primers. I opened the next box of 100 primers from the 1000 brick, and used these and the piercing went away even with the same loads which previously had blackened primers…looks like there’s a bad batch of primers in the brick. The lot number is 4787. I’m calling Remington.

[oley55]

The firing pin was examined and is fine. I even used my nearly new Ruger BH, still blackened primers. I opened the next box of 100 primers from the 1000 brick, and used these and the piercing went away even with the same loads which previously had blackened primers…looks like there’s a bad batch of primers in the brick. The lot number is 4787. I’m calling Remington.

I sure wouldn't mind seeing a closeup photo or two.

[Hi-Speed]

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Here are some pics…they’re pierced in the middle, two different Ruger’s one nearly brand new. Firing pin checked ok.

Remington said they haven’t shipped any 1 1/2 primers this year. I purchased these last month from TargetSportsUSA…they still show 99+ in stock. Remington is sending me a shipping label to return examples of the pierced primers.

Again, there are NO pierced primers using CCI500, Fed100 or Win small pistol primers.

[Soundguy]

Man those craters look deep

[Hi-Speed]

The ones which didn’t pierced were shallower, both Rugers. I think the primers have faulty and inconsistent cups.

[Rickf1985]

Looks like really soft or thin cups. Curious to see what Remington does about it. Tis is a perfect case of people buying cheap and holding on to stock and selling high. I will bet you paid 3-4 times what the seller paid for those primers.

[Hi-Speed]

…Remington said things should be leveling off and primers will become available to reloaders but they’re probably a year away. Their priority is filling ammunition demand first (with their greater margins I assume). It is still cheaper for me to purchase primers compared to purchasing ammunition…because the later is significantly higher as well…no free lunch. What happened to this great land? That’s a discussion elsewhere, sorry.

[Mal Paso]

…Remington said things should be leveling off and primers will become available to reloaders but they’re probably a year away. Their priority is filling ammunition demand first (with their greater margins I assume). It is still cheaper for me to purchase primers compared to purchasing ammunition…because the later is significantly higher as well…no free lunch. What happened to this great land? That’s a discussion elsewhere, sorry.

Thanks for the report. We haven't heard much from Remington.

[waksupi]

The firing pin was examined and is fine. I even used my nearly new Ruger BH, still blackened primers. I opened the next box of 100 primers from the 1000 brick, and used these and the piercing went away even with the same loads which previously had blackened primers…looks like there’s a bad batch of primers in the brick. The lot number is 4787. I’m calling Remington.

How did you examine the firing pin? Did you check protrusion length?

[Hi-Speed]

I checked them visually for imperfections with a 10x loupe…CCI500, FED100 and Win do not pierce with my Ruger’s…it only happened with the 1 1/2 primers.

[David2011]

As Waksupi mentioned, the firing pin protrusion should be measured. While it’s very possible that the primer material is at fault, the firing pin should be ruled out. Anecdotal evidence that other primers didn’t fail is good but not conclusive.

[PositiveCaster]

…Remington said things should be leveling off and primers will become available to reloaders but they’re probably a year away. Their priority is filling ammunition demand first (with their greater margins I assume). It is still cheaper for me to purchase primers compared to purchasing ammunition…because the later is significantly higher as well….

While as reloaders we expect manufacturers to cater to us, the reality is that far more shooters buy loaded ammunition than components. The “responsible” action is for manufacturers to prioritize the majority of their consumer demographics rather than a minority. As reloaders we may be offended and pi$$ed off - but in a free market society this is the norm. Better this than government mandates on how many primers we can purchase or which firearms are “acceptable” to own….



.

[Hi-Speed]

Yes, I understand free market economics very well.

…and the USG has significant demand in their manufacturing queues with priority ratings to be fulfilled first…and that’s a fact.

[44Blam]

My uncle and I were shooting the other day and we were both shooting little 9mm carry guns. My pistol is the SA Hellcat and his is the Sig P365.
I was shooting the Remington green and white box ammo (just got the gun and haven't started loading for it yet) and I'm not sure what he was shooting. I did find a couple cases with pierced primers and I'm pretty sure they were mine - they were Remington cases.

[Hi-Speed]

Thanks for sharing…saddened by our declining manufacturing quality standards.

[Hi-Speed]

I’m now getting good performance (actually after 125 rds fired) without pierced primers but only with 38 Spl standard velocity loads and at “low” 38 Spl +P velocities (900 +/- fps with 158 gr). My accumulated data to date now indicates that primers begin piercing with loads at avg approx 940- fps +/- using medium burning powders (AA5, N340, BE86, PP)…940 fps +/- is certainly not “high intensity” and with these powders at this velocity, I doubt, in my humble opinion, that they are over 20k psi +P rating and certainly not over 25k.

I’ll keep sending more rounds down range at low +P levels to accumulate more data towards arriving at a more reliable and predictive result.

[Soundguy]

While as reloaders we expect manufacturers to cater to us, the reality is that far more shooters buy loaded ammunition than components. The “responsible” action is for manufacturers to prioritize the majority of their consumer demographics rather than a minority. As reloaders we may be offended and pi$$ed off - but in a free market society this is the norm. Better this than government mandates on how many primers we can purchase or which firearms are “acceptable” to own….



.

Correct..for ammo makers there is way more profit in selling loaded ammo. Reloading supplies to hobbiests were always surplus or over run.. None of that exists now.. And reloading is a sliver of the ammo market...

[dogdoc]

I have several thousand Remington primers I acquired during the last shortage about 10 years ago. They pierce easily. I will only shoot low pressure 38 special with the small primers. The Remington large pistol from that period are just as bad. I loaded 100 midrange 44 mags that pierce . I had to pull them down. Pierced primers destroy firing pins and bushings

[Hi-Speed]

I have several thousand Remington primers I acquired during the last shortage about 10 years ago. They pierce easily. I will only shoot low pressure 38 special with the small primers. The Remington large pistol from that period are just as bad. I loaded 100 midrange 44 mags that pierce . I had to pull them down. Pierced primers destroy firing pins and bushings

I’m using now 4.5 grs W231 behind a 158 gr 358311 RNL bullet and the primers are now finally behaving with no piercing. MV is 890 fps in my Ruger 4 5/8 inch Blackhawk revolver…this is approximately the same velocity as Winchester and Federal factory 38 Spl +P loads with 158 gr lead hollow points; as chronographed in the Ruger.