Matching a bayonet to a rifle

[sailcaptain]

I was at a friends house and he pulled out a bayonet he said he's had for years. Passed down from his father. I never knew he even had an interest in this sort of weaponry.
He asked me if I knew what rifle this would be from. He wants to match the bayonet to a rifle and purchase one to use and display.
So I came here hoping someone would be able to help identifying it. Name, type, age and rifle match.
I hope so, it's definitely peaked my interest.
Thank you for any help you can offer.30260830260830260930261030261130261230261330 2614302615302616302617

[BP Dave]

Perhaps a French M1847 or one of the similar French socket bayonets? I don't know much about them, but they differ from many other bayonets of the era by having the blade rest on the left side of the barrel when mounted on the gun, and the bridge for the front sight on the opposite side of the socket from where the blade shank attaches.

I'm pretty sure it's French, but can't be much more help than that.

--DJ

[LAGS]

Nice find.
That is well worth looking into it's history.

[sailcaptain]

I agree, it is a nice piece of history. It came out of nowhere two nights ago. He said he’s had it in the back of a closet for years. The screw and mount are fully functional like the day it was made.
I didn’t know it may be the side mount style of bayonet. But I told him this would be the place for answers.
Thank you.

[Sasquatch-1]

What area of the country are you in? If you are somewhere on the east coast, you might find a historical institution that could help.
In the Washington D. C. area, two jump to mind, Harpers Ferry, WV, and the North South Skirmish Association in Winchester.

[sailcaptain]

I’m in Rhode Island. He’s in Connecticut. But there is the Kentish Guard here locally we could check with. Great suggestion. Thanks.
Once identified the real work begins for him. Finding a rifle. But the searching is 99% of the fun.

[sailcaptain]

A new clue revealed itself this morning. We thought it was rust but it turned out to be just crusted grime. A little light cleaning and a “US” stamp appeared on the blade. There are no other markings anywhere else we can find.
Hopefully this will narrow the search down, as this is becoming quite the obsession now.
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[bedbugbilly]

Sorry, but I'n not able to read your caliper measurement. If the ID is the size of a penny, it is probably for a 1855, 1861 or 1863 .58 cal. rifled musket - iff it is smaller - then probably a 45-70 trap door. The US is your clue. Keep in mind that not all .58 rifled muskets (US Models) were stamped with the US. I have one in my collection that is un-stamped - most likely made by a Contractor makimg the rifled muskets for the government. The "Special" model of the .58 cal. Rifled Muskets (produced by Colt and other contractors took the same bayonet as the barrel dimensions were the same as the 55s, 61s, 63.64s.

A nice piece of history! Thanks for sharing!

[NyFirefighter357]

I have one of these as well, I don't know if it's stamped US.

[sailcaptain]

Sorry for the dark photo. The measurement is 0.7945 inches. We did contact the organizations suggested and are awaiting to hear back. Once identified he will start searching for a rifle.
Not sure if he will cast any rounds, but who knows, he may get the bug and start.

[missionary5155]

I would not be surprised if it would fit on a caliber .50 musket.

[Tom Trevor]

I checked several trapdoor Springfield bayonets and they are .760. So you have two choices muzzle loading Springfield or contract musket or 50-70 trapdoor rifle. Note no bayonets were manufactured for the trapdoor, musket bayonets were cold sweged to size for the 1873-1893 rifles.Do not forget to get scabbard for it as well.

[NyFirefighter357]

https://worldbayonets.com/Bayonet_Identification_Guide/United_States__19th_Century_/us_19th_century_2.html

[sailcaptain]

NYFirefighter357, thank you for the link. We searched through and believe it matches up to the M1855 Socket Bayonet. We are basing this on the US Stamp. This one has the same S style of lettering and no (.) after each letter. The others have a U.S. stamp on them.
Narrowing it down for certain.

[NyFirefighter357]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Springfield_Model_1855

[NyFirefighter357]

https://civilwarshop.com/shop/pristine-us-model-1855-springfield-rifle-musket-dated-1860-with-sling/

[sailcaptain]

Thank you, I'll pass both links on and see where it goes. I'm thinking we'll be going to a few gun shows also as they come up.

[BP Dave]

These are M1855 US bayonets.
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They're marked "US" on the blades, although not all of them were.
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They seem to differ from yours in some respects. The shape of the bridge where it goes over the front sight seems taller and rounded,
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and both the bridge and the shank of the blade are on the same side.
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Again, yours is a little outside my wheelhouse, and the dimensions might not be right, but yours seems to have the configuration of something like the French bayonet I mentioned earlier or, perhaps, a US M1842.

[sailcaptain]

DJ,
Your right, the bridge on the one you have has a much more of a dome shape. Where, his is more square, squatter and not so tall.
I’ve never talked with my friend as much as I have over the last few days. I’m sending your pictures now.
Thank you again, he wants this right. So search continues.
Looking at the M1847 and 42 now.

[sailcaptain]

DJ,
Your right, the bridge on the one you have has a much more of a dome shape. Where, his is more square, squatter and not so tall.
I’ve never talked with my friend as much as I have over the last few days. I’m sending your pictures now.
Thank you again, he wants this right. So search continues.
Looking at the M1847 and 42 now.

[NyFirefighter357]

So my son was looking for a pocket knife so I had to dig out the crate full of knives & such. I took some pics of the socket bayonet I have. I was given to me. It was found in an old farm house wall in Holmes NY. It's a little out of round, bent & rusty.

https://i.imgur.com/Qi7h5V5.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/5r9XdiL.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/5LtcHrw.jpg

[sailcaptain]

I asked for a better photo of the same angle you and DJ are showing. I'm not driving back to Connecticut today. So we can get a better point of reference. Yours with the rounded bridge is like DJ's and very unlike my friends.
So here is a similar angle as you both have sent.
He's still waiting to hear back from local groups, perhaps early this week.
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[BP Dave]

US socket bayonets usually mount to the right side of the musket. If they are secured by the front sight, the long slot is on top with the blade to the right when mounted. On M1842 muskets (and some others) the bayonet is secured by a short, square lug on the bottom of the barrel instead of by the front sight. The cutout in the bridge for those doesn't need to be as tall, because it doesn't have to go over the front sight. The bridge cutout on your bayonet is short and square--I don't think it would fit over a front sight, but it looks like it would fit on one of those bottom lugs.

[NyFirefighter357]

https://youtu.be/S6U9oqXaLWk

[sailcaptain]

NYFirefighter357,
The best hour of TV I’ve seen in a long time. And the first time I’ve ever heard of the “candle holder” for a bayonet. So all the way around I highly recommend everyone to enjoy this video.
Just for the step by step loading process alone it’s worth watching. You can learn a lot by reading but comprehend more by watching.
I past it along to friends and titled it “Watch the Candle Holder Video”. No one knew what I was talking about but after they all sent rave reviews.
So thank you for sharing.

[sailcaptain]

Just thought I would follow up on the progress of identifying the bayonet. There has been a news blackout from all the sources we contacted. Not a single word. As it stands now, we are going to go to an area gun show close to us to start, bring the bayonet and try matching it up to a rifle. He really wants a rifle he can shoot and display with the bayonet. So the search continues and I thank you all for your help and guidance.

[sailcaptain]

I thought everyone would like to have a follow up to this posting.
A definitive answer was received today as to the origin of the bayonet.
It is an import model, for a Model 1835 - 1842 .69 caliber musket. And most of these would have been stamped with the US marking.
I thank everyone for their kind input, help and guidance. All greatly appreciated.
Now on to a gun to match it with.

[elk hunter]

You're on the East coast so if your friend doesn't find the correct musket locally I would recommend that he take the bayonet and go to the Maryland Antique Arms Collectors show in Baltimore in March. It's all antique firearms related. If it isn't for sale there it isn't for sale anywhere. Most of the venders want gun show prices but some will be quite reasonable. I found the correct bayonet, with scabbard, for my 1863 Springfield for $50.00.

Good luck to your friend and post pictures if he finds the musket.

[sailcaptain]

Thanks, I’ll pass on the gun show information to him. As you might imagine he’s very excited about this news. I’m sure we’ll be heading other shows and that one as well.
I’ll definitely post any pictures for all to see.
It’s going to be an interesting winter for sure.