Remington 38 Special +P 158 gr LHP “FBI Load” -Chronograph Data

[Hi-Speed]

Deleted at sole discretion of author

[rintinglen]

Thanks a bunch! This is useful data for those of us Dinosaurs still clinging to our 38's.

[Hi-Speed]

Remember, dinosaurs once ruled the earth. My pleasure to share the data.

…now I’m trying to duplicate the load with Accurate #5 using Speer and Handloader data.

[buckwheatpaul]

I had tested Remington “FBI Load” few weeks back but my notes indicated only four shots over my friend’s chronograph, not a good mathematical sampling. I purchased a new chronograph from MidwayUSA with a free shipping coupon…I don’t want to be beholden to someone’s else’s equipment I suppose. I’m spending more time with more shots over my chronograph, at least ten, to get meaningful data. I decided to give the Remington load a fair shake…here are chronograph data taken yesterday:

Cartridge: Remington 38 Special +P 158 gr LHP (new, I believe 2018 or 2019 manufacture)
Firearm: Ruger 4 5/8 inch 357 NM Blackhawk
Shot#/MV:
1. 903 fps
2. 898 fps
3. 928 fps
4. 939 fps
5. 951 fps
6. 951 fps
7. 900 fps
8. 927 fps
9. 933 fps
10. 925 fps

Hi - 951 fps
Lo - 898 fps
Avg - 925 fps
ES - 53
SD - 18

Dallas P.D. used that load for well over 30 years and the round never ever failed to stop....that is what I carry in my 2-1/2" model 66!

[gc45]

thanks for posting. I was shooting my 38s a lot until small PP disappeared..

[Outpost75]

Velocity checks Colt Detective Special 3-inch with 0.008" barrel-cylinder gap:

Winchester 158 LHP +P X38SPD
879 fps, 18 Sd, 43 ES

Winchester Ranger 130 JHP +P R38B
965 fps, 21Sd, 57 ES

Winchester 110- gr. JHP +P+Q4070 WCC86
1046 fps. 21Sd, 59 ES

Remington 158 LHP+P R38S12
906 fps, 14Sd, 40 ES

All of these expanded well in water jugs and penetrated through the third gallon water jug at ten yards, being caught in the 4th. All are good performing loads with "street cred."

302511

[tangolima]

That's +p load already? I have load with same weight cast bullet going 975fps with a little bit of titegroup. It shoots well and I thought it was a light load. Perhaps I should dial it back a little.

-TL

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

[jonp]

Anyone know a powder and charge they have used with good results that duplicates the "FBI" loads? I'm very interested as I have a Target to Masterpiece and Ruger that will handle this stuff.

[Outpost75]

Anyone know the powder used for the "FBI" loads? I know commercial doesn't post it but maybe someone has an idea. I'm very interested as I have a Target Masterpiece and Ruger that will handle this stuff.

Powders used in the factory ammo are noncanister, but you can approximate their payload and velocity closely using 5.5 grains of Power Pistol or AutoComp.

[Larry Gibson]

The original "FBI +P load was Winchester. I still have some we used back in the mid 70's to early 80's in our M15 S&Ws. It runs 975 fps out of my 4" M15 and right at 1000 fps out of my 6" Ruger Security Six. The psi as measured on my Contender test barrel via an Oehler M43 PBL runs 17,900. I duplicate that load with a 30-1 cast 358156HP over 5.5 gr Unique in W-W cases with WSPs.

[COUSIN DANIEL]

The original "FBI +P load was Winchester. I still have some we used back in the mid 70's to early 80's in our M15 S&Ws. It runs 975 fps out of my 4" M15 and right at 1000 fps out of my 6" Ruger Security Six. The psi as measured on my Contender test barrel via an Oehler M43 PBL runs 17,900. I duplicate that load with a 30-1 cast 358156HP over 5.5 gr Unique in W-W cases with WSPs.

Hi Larry, I think I remember you having a post about exploring fbi loads using different powders such a red dot, HS6/WIN540.

Would you mind discussing this if that was your research please?

[jonp]

Powders used in the factory ammo are noncanister, but you can approximate their payload and velocity closely using 5.5 grains of Power Pistol or AutoComp.

That was actually what I meant. What powders and charge would equal it. Power Pistol I have, no Autocomp. Edited my post
Thanks

[Larry Gibson]

Hi Larry, I think I remember you having a post about exploring fbi loads using different powders such a red dot, HS6/WIN540.

Would you mind discussing this if that was your research please?

I don't think that was me. I have not tested HS6 or WIN540 with 150/158 gr LSWCs replicating the "FBI" load. With Red Dot under a hard cast 158 commercial bullet 3.8 gr will be at the SAAMI MAP for +P but will not give the same velocity as factory "FBI" loads. While I have posted several results using other powders in the 38 SPL they have been for developing/testing 38/44 loads which are well into the +P+ and 357 Magnum psi range. A discussion here wouldn't be in accordance with the OP's topic.

[Gray Fox]

Larry: What alloy would you recommend for a carry load? GF

[Outpost75]

I'm not Larry, but 1 to 30 tin-lead from Roto Metals works very well in plain-based revolver loads to 1000 fps and in cowboy rifles like .44-40 to 1300 and expands wonderfully with excellent weight retention. With GC bullets will stand full .357 and .44 Magnum revolver velocity and fine to 1800 fps in a rifle. Success is lube dependent. I prefer a soft lube and use 50-50 olive oil and beeswax for subsonic, and Alox-beeswax for the full snort stuff.

[Hi-Speed]

That 5.5 grs Power Pistol load and a 158 gr LSWCHP bullet would be a good FBI duplicate load based on chronographing 5.6 grs Power Pistol/158 gr lead bullet; which obtained 949 fps from 4 5/8 inch Ruger BH. 5.5 grs would settle right in there…

[gc45]

That 5.5 grs Power Pistol load and a 158 gr LSWCHP bullet would be a good FBI duplicate load based on chronographing 5.6 grs Power Pistol/158 gr lead bullet; which obtained 949 fps from 4 5/8 inch Ruger BH. 5.5 grs would settle right in there…

Is this load a bit much for the steel J-frames?

[Larry Gibson]

Larry: What alloy would you recommend for a carry load? GF

Let me just say what I use for a 38 SPL +P "carry load". I've no qualms using it in a Charter Arms 4", my S&W M15 w/5" or my M19 S&W and Ruger Security Six 357 magnums. I also used it in a S&W M36 Chief's SPL back when I had one.

The 358156 cast of 30-1 alloy GC'd with Hornadys, sized at .358 and lubed with a soft NRA 50/50 lube.
Winchester cases
Winchester WSP primers
5.5 gr Alliant Unique
Bullets HP'ed to 3/16" deep with Forster HP tool then further opened to a wide mouth HP with a 1/8" counter sink bit.

[Outpost75]

Is this load a bit much for the steel J-frames?

Ok for occasional use, but not as a steady diet in high volume training quantities. Velocity will be about 100 fps less in a 1-7/8" snub, depending upon barrel-cylinder gap. Likely more if gap exceeds 0.008", as S&W now considers up to 0.010 within specs, which was considered a Major category defect in my day.

[HWooldridge]

I use 4.5 gr WW231 under a 158 gr lead SWC in my J-frame S&W. It's pretty snappy to shoot but purpose is self defense - I don't plink with a hammerless snubby.

[gc45]

I use 4.5 gr WW231 under a 158 gr lead SWC in my J-frame S&W. It's pretty snappy to shoot but purpose is self defense - I don't plink with a hammerless snubby.

Thank you HW. Sounds like a good carry load for my stainless J-frame snubby semi hammerless. i need to check the cylinder gap but perhaps this gun is old enough to have an acceptable clearance.