First time poster needs help.

[armyrat1970]

I have cast for the 8mm with a mix of lead and Linotype that I purchased from Midway. Several years ago I ran across some wheel weights and have read about heat treating them to harden. A few nights back, for the first time trying, I threw several into my Lee 4lb. bottom pour spout pot and melted. I didn't use many as I only wanted to cast about 20 30carbine bullets to heat treat. After the alloy melted I poured a little into my ingot mold to see how it was flowing. Everything looked okay so I began to cast. The alloy stopped flowing and started to drip. The bullets came out looking like someones chewed up and spit out bubble gum. Had to have a lot of zinc in the weights. I fluxed and stirred the pot and heated my Lee mold before casting with MARVELUX. After figuring I had a lot of zinc I empitied the pot and filled it with some lead and linotype ingots to try and clear the zinc. My spout was cleared with a dental pick and poured for a couple of seconds but became completly clogged again and it is now completly plugged. I figure I will have to use a slightly oversize drill bit to clear it as it seems the zinc cooled when going through the spout. The spout does not seem to be removeable. What else can I do to save my pot and how can I tell for sure if the weights have zinc or not. I have read that the shiny ones do and thought I picked through them carefully but??? I have read on another site that using unscented talac is a good way to seperate the zinc from the lead allow. Anyone know about this? If I can use wheel weights that contain zinc, what is a better way to flux so this won't happen again and I can skim off the zinc?
I also have Lee Alox Beeswax that I use to lubricate my molds. Would this be a better fluxing agent for the Zinc?
Appreciate any help.

[cajun shooter]

I don't think you have a zinc problem but a heat problem. Take a heat gun or propane torch and heat the spout. It will open up. Just heat no drill. The same goes for your casting pot, the reason it plugged was that you did not allow it to come to a hot enough temperature. What reason do you think you have zinc? Did all the lead in your pot melt at the same time? If so you don't have zinc. I think you started casting before being ready. Buy the Lyman casting book and read it before starting. Also go to the sticky section of this forum and read .

[largom]

You can test for zinc weights with a pair of side cutting pliars Lead alloy weights will dent easily with the pliars while the zinc ones will not, too hard.
Also, get a good thermometer and keep your melt temp. below 750 Deg. when melting wheel weights, any zinc weights will float to top and can be removed.
LARRY

[Bret4207]

Turn your pot all the way up and start casting FAST with the WW alloy. Depending on what the alloy you got from Midway is, it may well melt at a lower temp than WW and require less heat to fill properly. Kinda counter intuitive, isn't it? The torch will clean your nozzle. The crappy boolits you got with the WW sounds like too cold a mould or melt. Zinc? Get your melt up to 675-700 degree's and let is sit. The zinc will rise slowly and look kinda like oatmeal mush. Takes time.

[monadnock#5]

Unscented talac? Did you mean talcum powder? I've never heard of this process you speak of, but I would very much like to hear more about it.

As to your immediate concern: NEVER smelt ww's in your casting pot! There are all manner of contaminants in the melt. Not all of them will float to the surface, even with fluxing. The stuff that sinks sticks to the pot sides, the valve and will clog the spout. Melt a pot full of the Midway alloy, as this will create pressure at the spout. If pressure alone won't do it, hit the spout with the flame of a propane torch as you hold the valve open with your free hand. If that still won't do it, clamp a finish nail in a pair of "vise-grips", and work it up the spout like you did with the dental pick, again while holding the valve open. Get yourself a hot plate and a steel saucepan for smelting dirty ww's, and put only clean alloy in your casting pot.

One other thing. I'll go out on a limb here and assume that your Lee is like my Lyman pot in that the heating element is wrapped around the outside of the middle of the pot. The small amount of ww you put in the pot to experiment with never got close to casting temp. I personally wouldn't start casting with less than half a pot of alloy, even if experimenting on just a few. Oh, and welcome to the Board by the way. The casting books are very informative and interesting, but this place is a lot more fun.:lovebooli

[armyrat1970]

I don't think you have a zinc problem but a heat problem. Take a heat gun or propane torch and heat the spout. It will open up. Just heat no drill. The same goes for your casting pot, the reason it plugged was that you did not allow it to come to a hot enough temperature. What reason do you think you have zinc? Did all the lead in your pot melt at the same time? If so you don't have zinc. I think you started casting before being ready. Buy the Lyman casting book and read it before starting. Also go to the sticky section of this forum and read .

I'm pretty sure it was zinc in the weights. After I dumped the pot there was a lot of cold alloy laying in the bottom. I had to take a butter knife, wife doesn't know this, and scrape it out.
The alloy was completly melted and I fluxed and stirred and removed some of the dross. When I poured some into my ingot mold there was no problem. Lee ingot molds have the Lee stamp in the bottom and the stamp even filled up nice and sharp so I'm pretty sure my temp was high enough. If any of you use the Lee 4lb. bottom pour spout pot as I have I usually cast with the setting around 6.5 or 7 on the adjusting dial. Have found if I cast at a little higher setting they will begin to frost. I even leave it sit longer before trying to fill my bullet mold as I use Lee molds and set them on top of the pot for a few minutes to make sure they are warmed up. Never had this problem using lead and linotype alloy. If my first few bullets didn't come out quite right I would just drop them back into the pot and pour again until my mold heated up nicely. But this is a totally different problem. The bullet mold would not fill at all. It has to be zinc cooling when pouring through the spout.
You guys have given me a lot of food for thought and will have to get a little propane torch to clear my spout before I continue.
I have the Lyman 3rd edition cast bullet handbook and also use the Lee Second Edition for info when casting.

[armyrat1970]

[QUOTE=monadnock#5;479647]Unscented talac? Did you mean talcum powder? I've never heard of this process you speak of, but I would very much like to hear more about it.

Yes I spelt it wrong. It is talc or unscented baby powder, talcum, and was specified as unscented. Which I have yet to find. This is the info I got from Tuco's Reloading Handloading digest forum:

I am by no means a chemist, but this was how it was explained to me several years back.
Talc is magnesium silicate, and magnesium is one of the few elements that zinc will bond with even thou the melting points are differant. So as I understand it, when you flux with the Talc, it bonds with the zinc, which is in Suspension in the lead, it (the zinc) does not bond with the lead, it simply melts and is mixed with it. Example, if Lead were Blue, and Zinc yellow, when melted togeather a mixture would turn green. A Suspension would remain a swirl of Blue and yellow. The Talc bonds to the Zinc, and allows it to be sperated from the lead. Since zinc has a higher melting point than lead, as you drop the temp of the pot, the zinc, now bonded to the Magnesium, floats to the surface in globs of grayish powder that can be skimmed off. Sorry if that does not fully explain it, like I said, I am not a chemist, I was in the same position a few years back as the original poster, was told about this, tried it and it worked.....

Now it was also stated to heat the alloy to around 770 degrees and flux with the tlac stir and flux again. Then lower the temp to around 650 or so and let it sit. After cooling the zinc would bond with the talc and rise to the top so it can be removed. If you go to Tuco's forum on the Reloading Handloading Digest forum see my post about a screwed up casting session for the info.
But now this has me wondering about the antimony in the weights because it has a higher melting point than either zinc or lead. Would you lose the antimony as well when skimming off the floating zinc? Hummmm?
Thanks for the heads up about not melting wheel weights in my pot. First time anyone ever told me about that and maybe by not filling my pot very much and pouring off a lot of the alloy into my ingot mold first, I opened myself up to pouring a lot of zinc. With the newer weights containing zinc I will never do it again and will melt and flux them in something else. A cheap pan is much less expensive than a good pot.
Thanks for all the info.

[monadnock#5]

Thank you for the tip on the unscented talc. It's on my shopping list as of today. I don't know if it would bond with Sb either. No chemists at my house.

[cajun shooter]

Armyrat, The smelting of your ww's should be done in a separate pot as stated to you by monadnock. When I said you started casting before being ready I meant with that session. Most of the forum members use a cast iron pot like Lodge sells to do the smelting. Some even have custom made steel pots for this chore. I have of late not found zinc weights but steel ones. We went from the squirrel having lead posioning from chewing on the lead weight to it needing dental work from the steel one.

[armyrat1970]

Armyrat, The smelting of your ww's should be done in a separate pot as stated to you by monadnock. When I said you started casting before being ready I meant with that session. Most of the forum members use a cast iron pot like Lodge sells to do the smelting. Some even have custom made steel pots for this chore. I have of late not found zinc weights but steel ones. We went from the squirrel having lead posioning from chewing on the lead weight to it needing dental work from the steel one.

I understood what you meant shooter. No harm no foul.
Good to meet another coonass here. I live across the river from New Orleans in Terrytown. Born and raised on the Westbank. The bestbank we call it.
Should have thought about smelting the ww's in a different pot first knowing I had a chance that some contained zinc. The good news is I have a couple of old cast iron pots I bought years ago that the wife no longer uses. They are now mine for my casting.:mrgreen: Don't own a crab boil but will get one to do this outside of course. Maybe I can borrow my father-in-laws to smelt all of the weights I have. One weekend would do it. I have over 100lbs. and can cast a lot of bullets with that if I can get it right.
Once I get my pot and spout cleaned I will try the talc process and smelt the weights in the cast iron pot to remove all traces of zinc and then pour ingots to use in my casting pot.
I am still curious as to whether or not the antimony would also be removed from the alloy. Don't want that to happen as I would not be able to heat treat the cast bullets for extra hardness.
You guys have given me a lot of good info. Thanks. Glad to now be a member of this fourm.

[armyrat1970]

Thank you for the tip on the unscented talc. It's on my shopping list as of today. I don't know if it would bond with Sb either. No chemists at my house.

Ha Ha. No chemists but you got the symbol right monadnock.
What part of New Hampshire? In the late 70's I lived in New Hampshire. Dover and Hampton Beach areas. Loved the skiing there and also skied Vermont and Maine. Lot of good times during the summer out on Hampton Beach during the Disco craze.:mrgreen:

[timkelley]

Hope Glen sees this and jumps in, he is a chemist and can probably comment on talc and zinc.

[TAWILDCATT]

you should not even have to do this.melt the wheel weights at a temp that the zinc would not melt and skim.I must have been lucky as I have not run into zinc yet.that pot would be a pita if you do any serious casting.I stated out with a Gilbert caster at #3.but that was before there were lyman.there was potter but I had never heard of it.now I have a potter I keep as antque.allong with my Gilbert toy soldier caster.
save you money and get a 20 lb "4-20" lee.if you ever cast 45-500 you will only get 14 to the lb.X 4. :coffee: [smilie=1:

[armyrat1970]

One other thing. I'll go out on a limb here and assume that your Lee is like my Lyman pot in that the heating element is wrapped around the outside of the middle of the pot. The small amount of ww you put in the pot to experiment with never got close to casting temp. I personally wouldn't start casting with less than half a pot of alloy, even if experimenting on just a few. Oh, and welcome to the Board by the way. The casting books are very informative and interesting, but this place is a lot more fun.:lovebooli

Kinda missed this on the first read but no. My heating element is at the bottom of the pot. With only very little or no alloy in the pot you can see the bottom glowing red when hot. That's one thing that gets me about the bottom pour spout becoming plugged. Even with the pot cranked all the way up and letting it sit for over 15 minutes or so I could not clear it again.

[454PB]

Lee doesn't make a four pound bottom draw pot. The smallest is a 10 pounder.

[monadnock#5]

Ha Ha. No chemists but you got the symbol right monadnock.
What part of New Hampshire? In the late 70's I lived in New Hampshire. Dover and Hampton Beach areas. Loved the skiing there and also skied Vermont and Maine. Lot of good times during the summer out on Hampton Beach during the Disco craze.:mrgreen:

Truth be known, I opened a new tab and googled Sb to come up with the symbol. One of my tricks to keep people confused. It's like I tell my wife, "I'm not completely stupid, only mostly stupid".

I'm on the west side of the state. 30 miles from VT, and 30 miles from MA. Summer time, sweet summertime. I can hardly wait to do battle with the NH state bird! :-D

[armyrat1970]

Lee doesn't make a four pound bottom draw pot. The smallest is a 10 pounder.

I think you are correct on that. The most I have ever been able to pour out of my pot with ingots was around 6lbs but of course this was not pure lead. A mix of lead and linotype. Would make a difference if pouring pure lead. I went to the Lee site and the picture of the Lee Production Pot lV looks the same as what I have and it is stated as being the same as the Lee Production Pot which holds appx. 10lbs but the lV has a 4" clearance, as mine has. The one difference is they state 110 volts and mine states 120 volts. Really no difference.
Thanks.