Hydroponic System

[dverna]

Traditional gardening is not something I want to do. Way too much work and where I live, the critters get most of the stuff anyway.

Any experience with indoor hydroponic systems would be appreciated. Looking to grow veggies and maybe mushrooms for two people and suitable for use in a basement.

Thanks.

[Good Cheer]

Hope someone chimes in with lots of experience in hydroponics. Perhaps the wavelength specific LED's available nowadays could really make it work well and keep down the lighting costs. Been experimenting with them for seedlings weeks in advance of the last frosts. So far I'm still working on better ways to thwart the legginess.

South of Lake Michigan I'm using vertical trellises inside a 900 square foot patch of ground surrounded by 120' of eight foot tall remesh (with chicken wire) barriers and stand alone moveable auxiliary barriers of folded remesh. As long as I don't forget to close the gate the critters are held at bay. I'm retired to the north and learning how very different gardening is from the third coast, how to maximize yields within the small space. Herbs, summer and winter quash, bush beans and pole beans, peppers, broccoli, green and Turkish eggplants, Armenian and regular cucumbers, potatoes, onions, carrots and melons.

[JimB..]

Very different requirements for mushrooms. Have you looked into just buying seeded blocks to get started with them?

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I've seen a couple documentaries, where they grow fish with a hydroponic garden. Check that out.
The fish provide fertilizer for the plants...and the plants clean the water for the fish. Symbiotic baby!
BUT, I haven't seen a system like this that would be small...like to feed only 2 people.

ALSO,
Check out what your local university is doing.
Here is an article from U of MN
https://extension.umn.edu/how/small-scale-hydroponics

[Randy Bohannon]

Energy required for ‘ grow lights’ which you would need in the basement to support 10-14 hours of light a day of the correct wave length will be expensive. You are also limited in the variety of plants due to size of the plant, you’re not doing watermelons in your basement, corn would be a challenge . Can’t imagine a full grown tomato plant in my basement either,so you end up growing things like lettuce and herbs maybe carrots . Cost benefit analysis says plant outside spend the money on defending your garden.
Now if you want to do marijuana in a basement you would be golden on a cost benefit analysis. Not to mention the smell of fertilizers and what not. I would not enjoy that inside my house, outside yes not inside.

[MUSTANG]

Following. Been toying with trying some hydroponics (Fish Aqua-culture) for the last five years. Lot's of "Success Stories" on the inter web; but my observation is those using natural light do so in the states below the Mason Dixon Line and the southwest where we see somewhat moderate Temps.

I have not pulled the trigger on Fish Aquaponics because of the dang Federal and State Governments finger, fist, entire arm up the wazzo in any project with a Fish in it. Initial discussion for doing it at the Moapa Nevada House - Too close to the Muddy River (What if the get loose - get up and walk out one night? Initial discussion for doing it at the Kalispell Montana House - Too close to the creek nearby (What if the get loose - get up and walk out one night?)

Suppose I could go and put in a $1M grant request with the Fed/State/s and they might consider it a worthy research project - with kick back for State/Fed inspectors.

[farmbif]

there are all kinds of indoor garden advancements made since pot got legalized in Colorado and other places. portable grow chambers that use low energy cost led variable spectrum lighting and they are just as good at growing pot as veggies. like said before mushrooms is a whole other thing. shrooms can be grown in coffee grounds and other substrates in plastic bag lined plastic tubs. there are quite a few systems for this also. do some internet searching and you will find all kinds of options

[rancher1913]

look at wolfdogs post on here, he does a small version with fish.

[kerplode]

Unless you're growing "cash" crops, the cost of running the lights and pumps will be greater than the value of the produce you grow.

Mushrooms are a completely different situation. They just require a 60%-ish relative humidity space, regular fresh air exchange, and time. Making your own blocks is complicated...Much better to buy them already inoculated and just fruit them. Please be aware, though, that fruiting mushrooms in your living space can result in contaminating your air with spores and, over time, can lead to health issues. I wouldn't recommend it without proper filtration of the air, or the ability to exchange the air to outside.

[JimB..]

My daughter was part of a team that built an aquaponics system. The fish were in an outdoor pond, plants were in a greenhouse. Pond water was pumped into an elevated holding tank where it passed through a coarse filter before being fed to the gravel beds for the plants. Water from the gravel beds fed back to the pond. They produced both fish and vegetables for consumption. I forget what they fed the fish.

[dverna]

Thanks for all the input.

It seems like it is not easy or cheap to do.

[Shurshot2]

It does add up, but can be easy. For the lights use 90% red light and 10% blue, leds are easy to do this with. A small recirculating pump to oxygenate your water/fertilizer mixture. We have use simple racing gutter with a top on it, and holes for the plants. Getting the right fertilizer mix is the harder part if you are using concentrate.

[gnostic]

The new grow lights are LED and the type of 'crop' determine the red blue combination of the light. Hydroponics is a lot of work, as daily you have to measure and adjust the PH and refill the nutrient level with distilled water and nutrient. We used 5 gal buckets painted black on the outside, apparently the roots don't respond well to light. Most growers use air pumps designed for aquariums as they do a good job and they're inexpensive. The seeds are germinated in a coconut husk or peat moss. We ran the lights 24 hours a day in what's called the greening stage. When you want the plant to flower, cut the light down to 12 hours a day. Once the plants start the flowering stage you can go back to running the light 24 hours a day.

This is where it gets tricky, often plants will become hermaphrodite and not flower or produce a crop if you stress them out. I used nutrients from Holland and distilled water and my crops were about 8 feet tall when harvested...

[Froogal]

Energy required for ‘ grow lights’ which you would need in the basement to support 10-14 hours of light a day of the correct wave length will be expensive. You are also limited in the variety of plants due to size of the plant, you’re not doing watermelons in your basement, corn would be a challenge . Can’t imagine a full grown tomato plant in my basement either,so you end up growing things like lettuce and herbs maybe carrots . Cost benefit analysis says plant outside spend the money on defending your garden.
Now if you want to do marijuana in a basement you would be golden on a cost benefit analysis. Not to mention the smell of fertilizers and what not. I would not enjoy that inside my house, outside yes not inside.

We tried growing lettuce and spinach in an indoor garden just last winter. It did not do well. We used the correct type of lights with a timer that turned the lights on for about 14 hours per day. Never noticed any difference on our light bill.

[Thumbcocker]

My experience with hydroponic growing involved forfeiting all the grow equipment. The equipment was later given to a local college.

[deltaenterprizes]

Disney in Florida in the Epocot section has a ride called “The Land” and they show how they grow vegetables for the restaurants using hydroponics.
It is large scale but it shows the basics.

[popper]

It seems like it is not easy or cheap to do. Correct. Mom had a relative in Ca yrs ago that did it commercially with strawberries. There are several 'methods. that a called hydroponic, original was NO soil.

[dverna]

It seems like it is not easy or cheap to do. Correct. Mom had a relative in Ca yrs ago that did it commercially with strawberries. There are several 'methods. that a called hydroponic, original was NO soil.

It looks like that. Cost is not a huge factor for me, if it is easy. I stopped gardening because of the work and how much I lost to critters. Fresh veggies are great.

Last year I bought 20 cases of canned veggies for $.20/can. No way I could grow food that inexpensively. Quality is not great, but it is food.

I think I will prep stuff that I catch on sale and leaving growing quality food to others.

[MrWolf]

It looks like that. Cost is not a huge factor for me, if it is easy. I stopped gardening because of the work and how much I lost to critters. Fresh veggies are great.

Last year I bought 20 cases of canned veggies for $.20/can. No way I could grow food that inexpensively. Quality is not great, but it is food.

I think I will prep stuff that I catch on sale and leaving growing quality food to others.

The hard work is what has me thinking about freeze drying. We grow vegetables now, but keep thinking about the pain vs reward. Only two of us and we aren't getting any younger.

[GhostHawk]

Easy is not so much as it seems to require a steady stream of work.

I started with quart jars wrapped in black plastic garbage bag. Basic Kratky method. And it worked fine for growing some lettuce mid winter in ND. Then I switched to plastic tubs and DWC.
The next winter I grew a great crop of Boc Choi. Then I tried strawberry's and something went wrong and I lost them all in 3 days. Finally figured out the water should have been changed, but in the location I was using that was not an easy thing to do. So I dumped it all.

Now this spring I have 3 tomato plants growing outside in a cat liter bucket. Just put starter plants in 3" basket with some rock wool. Drilled 3 holes with a hole saw in the lid. Drilled a small hole in the side of the bucket so a big rain won't overfill it and drown them. I check water level once a week.

Not a lot of work, and they are sitting on concrete on south side of my deck where nothing will grow.

As for the lights, I've had my best luck with the cheap harbor freight LED Strip lights. Also on Amazon I found some 6' cords with switch and socket for a light bulb. Also some single socket to 3 socket adapters. Lets me put in a pair of LED screw in bulbs and maybe a twist Fluorescent.

All depends on how much work you are willing to do for how much stuff. Me I'm pretty lazy.

[MaryB]

Energy required for ‘ grow lights’ which you would need in the basement to support 10-14 hours of light a day of the correct wave length will be expensive. You are also limited in the variety of plants due to size of the plant, you’re not doing watermelons in your basement, corn would be a challenge . Can’t imagine a full grown tomato plant in my basement either,so you end up growing things like lettuce and herbs maybe carrots . Cost benefit analysis says plant outside spend the money on defending your garden.
Now if you want to do marijuana in a basement you would be golden on a cost benefit analysis. Not to mention the smell of fertilizers and what not. I would not enjoy that inside my house, outside yes not inside.

Those are old style grow lights. New LED grow lights use very little power. And a standard 4' LED shop light works as a grow light! They are fairly wide spectrum as far as light goes.

[kerplode]

Those are old style grow lights. New LED grow lights use very little power. And a standard 4' LED shop light works as a grow light! They are fairly wide spectrum as far as light goes.

They "work", but not very well. You have to position them so they're basically touching the foliage to have any chance of decent yield. They're also not great for tall things because they don't have enough power to penetrate the canopy very deeply.

A couple years ago, I made a DIY LED light for my wife to use for starting her cutting flowers indoors in the late winter. It's mostly white LEDs with some additional reds to boost that end of the spectrum. It provides fairly decent coverage for a 4'x4' tent. At full brightness, it draws 200W. Running that on a 18-6 cycle, plus the fans, is definitely noticeable on the power bill. Yeah, it's efficient, but it's still noticeable power. Build cost was a little over $600 for that one lamp.

To grow enough veggies to be meaningful, you'd need a lot more space than the 4'x4' tent, which means a lot more lights. More lights and more space means more fans. It all adds up.

Plus, if you're not in a legal state, you'll eventually draw some attention from LE. This is especially true if you buy the old-style "blurple" grow lights some have mentioned here. That's old tech, anyway...Not nearly as efficient as full-spectrum LEDs. Nobody that does indoor growing for real uses blurples anymore.

It's fun to screw around with, but it's cheaper and easier just go to buy all the veggies you need at whole foods...

[MT Gianni]

Following. Been toying with trying some hydroponics (Fish Aqua-culture) for the last five years. Lot's of "Success Stories" on the inter web; but my observation is those using natural light do so in the states below the Mason Dixon Line and the southwest where we see somewhat moderate Temps.

I have not pulled the trigger on Fish Aquaponics because of the dang Federal and State Governments finger, fist, entire arm up the wazzo in any project with a Fish in it. Initial discussion for doing it at the Moapa Nevada House - Too close to the Muddy River (What if the get loose - get up and walk out one night? Initial discussion for doing it at the Kalispell Montana House - Too close to the creek nearby (What if the get loose - get up and walk out one night?)

Suppose I could go and put in a $1M grant request with the Fed/State/s and they might consider it a worthy research project - with kick back for State/Fed inspectors.

You have to prove to the powers that be:
Flooding is nearly impossible, so outside the 100 year flood plane
In the case of a wash out the distance to any moving water is so far that those waters will never reach it.
The threat of invasive species has most fishery biologists looking at any such project with microscopes. Near Twin Bridges there are a lot of private irrigation ponds that have been inundated with perch that are now less than two inches long because of flood waters. I don't think there are many perch in the Jeff, but they have driven out the possibility of any trout reintroduction in those private ponds.

[Shurshot2]

Here is a system we prototype for use in space. This one uses aerobatics. https://science.nasa.gov/technology/technology-highlights/a-novel-approach-to-growing-gardens-in-space

[Rapier]

My system works best of all, I drive 4 miles down the road and buy produce from a farm owned by four older women……I like that a lot better than my back.

[AlHunt]

It sounds like OP has tabled the idea anyway, but when I was thinking about an indoor setup, it seemed like an attached greenhouse off one wall of the house would be the best way to get enough sunlight without a million dollars in lights. Just supplementing should be enough. Hydroponics was also on my radar but it does require a lot of attention to water quality (chemistry, temp PH, etc) and can go south quickly.

[MaryB]

They "work", but not very well. You have to position them so they're basically touching the foliage to have any chance of decent yield. They're also not great for tall things because they don't have enough power to penetrate the canopy very deeply.

A couple years ago, I made a DIY LED light for my wife to use for starting her cutting flowers indoors in the late winter. It's mostly white LEDs with some additional reds to boost that end of the spectrum. It provides fairly decent coverage for a 4'x4' tent. At full brightness, it draws 200W. Running that on a 18-6 cycle, plus the fans, is definitely noticeable on the power bill. Yeah, it's efficient, but it's still noticeable power. Build cost was a little over $600 for that one lamp.

To grow enough veggies to be meaningful, you'd need a lot more space than the 4'x4' tent, which means a lot more lights. More lights and more space means more fans. It all adds up.

Plus, if you're not in a legal state, you'll eventually draw some attention from LE. This is especially true if you buy the old-style "blurple" grow lights some have mentioned here. That's old tech, anyway...Not nearly as efficient as full-spectrum LEDs. Nobody that does indoor growing for real uses blurples anymore.

It's fun to screw around with, but it's cheaper and easier just go to buy all the veggies you need at whole foods...

1.4kwh a month... at 14 cents a kwh that is 28 cents... I would never notice it on my bill. And I cheated and just figured 24/7 and 30 days and 2 amps versus 1.66 amps(200 watts at 120 volts)...

[kerplode]

Check your maths...

200W at 18hr/day is 3.6kWh per day.
30 day then becomes 108kWh. That's $15.12 per month at $0.14/kWh.

That's just one lamp...Doesn't include the circulation fans or any pumps if running hyro. Add that stuff and scale it beyond 4'x4' and you're talking about real money.

And this is just running cost. Buying all this equipment as well as the consumables will be well into the thousands of dollars. How many carrots can you buy at Whole Foods for $5000?

Unless you're growing weed, this is hole to pour money into. I mean, even massive scale, commercial hydro veggie grows have trouble turning a profit.

[MaryB]

I must have screwed something up when I was using the calculator LOL *doh* still, I go thru $50+++ a month in veg easy