351 wsl

[Logangrimnar]

Hello,
I recently purchased a winchester 1907 in 351 wsl. Does anybody have a good lead for 180 grain bullets sized correctly for this rifle? For that matter has anybody seen brass or dies? I'm aware that it's an obsolete cartridge but you guys have helped me with the like before.
Thanks,
Richard

[Brassmonkey]

If you find some projectiles, let me know!

Have a friend that has been bugging me about loading a few rounds.

[pworley1]

You need to find someone with a Ideal 350319 or 350447 mold. I don't have either.

[Logangrimnar]

Grafs shows projos but they are sold out.

[Old Footman]

Logangrimnar,

I think I can help you out. As for a mold Accurate Molds has one and it is the 35-175AG, cost on this is $93.50 + shipping. Graf & Sons does have .351 Redding dies in stock (see link). Quality Cartridge Brass makes .351 WSL brass, but it is not in stock right now. They also make monolithic "boolits". I spoke to the owner last night and he took my contact information for the brass and "boolits". He was up front and let me know how everything in manufacturing is taking longer, etc. I would suggest you emailing him and letting him know that you want to get on his list.

https://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=35-175AG

https://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/product/productId/15709

https://www.qual-cart.com/35%20cal.htm

I would suggest on reaching out to Leonard Speckin at lspeckin@4n6.com since he is working on his 3rd Edition book on the .351 (1907 Winchester).

https://www.forgottenweapons.com/book-review-winchester-model-07-self-loading-351-caliber/

Hope this helps, good luck with your .351 WSL

"Old Footman"

[Bird]

https://www.bearcreeksupplybullets.com/price-sheet
170g. .352'' $47.25 FOR 500.

[muskeg13]

Slug your bore to determine exactly what you need (remember go about .002 over). Buffalo Arms is a very good source for custom spec sizing dies. These are in stock: https://www.buffaloarms.com/352-custom-bullet-sizing-die-bac352.html and https://www.buffaloarms.com/354-rcbs-sizing-die-rcb82219.html

You can size down any suitable .358-ish cast boolit, preferably using a .355/.356 9mm sizer as an intermediate step, and then final size to what you need for cast in the .351. Start with .358 boolits with substantial grease grooves already filled with lube. This will assist in maintaining the grooves as the boolits are squeezed down.

[Battis]

Accurate mold 35-175A, 35-175AG, 35-180C or 35-180CG.
.357 Mag brass, rim sized to .408” (drill press and file). NO extractor groove.
(.357 mag rims that I trimmed varied from .404” to .411”. All worked).
Use .38/.357 sizing die
Small rifle primer
Before loading, use a 9mm crimp die down the case to length of bullet (good case neck tenson)
Expander die slightly on case mouth.
IMR 4227 – 17 grs .
Seat with .38/.357 seating die
Crimp with .38/.357 seating die

Have you checked the buffers?

[Logangrimnar]

I have heard of using 357 magnum brass. This is a much much cheaper option. I will definitely have to try it. I have 357 and 9mm dies. I also turn the rims for my 219 wasp so I'm decent at it with a drill and grinder.

No I have not checked the buffer. Do they break?

[Logangrimnar]

Running it through the 9mm crimp die leaves a small shoulder. Is that OK? Is that what I want?

[Battis]

The problem with using .357 brass and a .352 bullet is neck tension. I've also used a .223 die for neck tension, but the 9mm before loading works for me. I use IMR 4227 which is compressible, so the bullet rests on the powder, and as long as there's a good crimp it might spin but it won't pull out. The 9mm crimp die beforehand takes care of the neck tension.
The buffers can be a problem. They break down over time.

[Logangrimnar]

So, when I run it through the 9mm crimp die I get a shoulder. Is that ok or normal?

[Battis]

I never noticed a shoulder. I only run the case into the 9mm crimp far enough to hold the bullet. Does the case chamber?

Maybe you crimped too far down the case. I said that I crimp the length of the bullet - I should have said that I crimp the length of the bullet that will seat in the case, which isn't the entire bullet.

I'm going to cast some bullets soon, hopefully this week. If you want, I can send you a few to try.

Wolff Springs sells a recoil spring - replacing it is a good idea. That, and those buffers.
https://www.gunsprings.com/WINCHESTER/07/cID2/mID120/dID324

[beagle]

.357 Mag dies work for loading just fine or it did on mine. Seems like it used a #9 RCBS shell holder. Both the 350319 and 350293 moulds are hard to find. You'll need a .352" die for sizing and that's a custom proposition. I still have a few cases left over from my project. The .357 Mag case normally has to have the rim modified and it's best to use .357 Max brass. Loading data is available. I used WC820 milsurp powder in mine and it worked fine.
Good little rifle but it's heavy and throws brass 20 feet./beagle

[Battis]

When I first got the rifle, I bought a set of .351 "custom" Lee dies on ebay ($60). They did not work any better than the .38/.357 dies so I returned them. I bought .351 reloads from a reputable company online and when I pulled a few bullets from the cases, I found that the powder charge varied from 17 grs to 21 grs. You gotta be kidding. I started loading my own and eventually came up with the method I described (9mm crimp, etc). They work very well for me. I also bought the .22 WSL, .32, .35, two .351s and a .401. Maybe a little obsessed. I load for each one except the rimfire .22, and I never cut an extractor groove.
I tried .357 Max brass but the case mouths on each round got squished and ruined. Probably needed more of a powder charge. So I use only 357 MAG brass and they work great.
I spoke on the phone years ago with Leonard Speckin after buying his 2nd edition book, and he guided me through the buffer/recoil spring changing process. The problem is that his method does not work on the .401, so I came up with what I believe is close to the factory method (pre-load the spring on the removed bolt). Search this forum and that thread should come up.
Great rifles but it might take some experimenting to get them working properly.

[Battis]

I just checked out the Bear Creek bullet site - they have some good deals on bullets that I've been casting. 351, 401, 32-20, 8mm Hungarian. I'm getting lazy with casting, and their prices are decent. How's the quality?

[Old Footman]

In reference to this:

Wolff Springs sells a recoil spring - replacing it is a good idea. That, and those buffers.
https://www.gunsprings.com/WINCHESTE.../mID120/dID324

I just got off the phone with Leonard Speckin in reference to these springs. He advised that the .351 WSL spring from Wolff have an issue in taking a set. He recommends that you use the factory original Winchester spring that has not been cut. The original Winchester spring is 10" long with 55 coils with a wire diameter of .050"
He will be addressing these comments in his 3rd edition book on the .351 WSL.

"Old Footman"

[Battis]

He advised that the .351 WSL spring from Wolff have an issue in taking a set.

What does that mean?
Where would you find a factory original Winchester spring?
I've used Wolff springs in two .351s and a .35 with no issues.
You can have the perfect spring in a .351 but if the buffers are bad, and not doing their job, you're screwed.

[Bird]

I just checked out the Bear Creek bullet site - they have some good deals on bullets that I've been casting. 351, 401, 32-20, 8mm Hungarian. I'm getting lazy with casting, and their prices are decent. How's the quality?

Quality is good. They are a coated bullet, moly I think. Plain based and should be good for 1300 to 1400 fps. I have used their bullets in 30-30. 44, 357, and 45-70 for 25 years, and never a problem.

[Logangrimnar]

Ok, I'm back. Trying to get this right. When you sat a crimp die, my 9mm dies are lee. I pull the seater out of the seating/crimp die and run it in about the length of the seated portion of the bullet but I end up with a shoulder. What dies and brass are you using?

[Battis]

I'm using Lee dies. The crimp die is a factory crimp die (not the seating die), which uses a tapered crimp, that should not form a shoulder. All it does is compress the case mouth.
Experimenting would be easier if you had a bullet. I'm going to buy a box from Bear Creek bullets. They coat their bullets and they do a better job than anything I cast.
You might find the die cheaper, or find a used one.
https://www.amazon.com/LEE-PRECISION-90860-Carbide-Factory/dp/B000O7HCK0/ref=sr_1_1?crid=EVD3HLS1PRDW&keywords=9mm+factory+crimp+lee+dies&qid=1658238775&sprefix=9mm+factory+crimp+lee+dies%2Caps%2C102&sr=8-1

As others have said, a custom sizing die would be good, but pricey.

Thinking about it, I could crimp the case after it's loaded with the 9mm crimp die. Why I haven't tried that, I'm not sure.
Just came to me - I crimp before loading because there was no tension on the bullet when seating. That's not a problem using .357 MAG brass but it is a problem with the longer .357 MAX brass.

[Logangrimnar]

302320

[Battis]

Here's a pic of two .357 Mag cases. On the left is an uncrimped case. On the right, crimped with a 9mm factory crimp die.
Not much difference but enough to hold the bullet.

[Logangrimnar]

Anyone have any real world experience cutting down the 350 legend? Seems like the rim would be the only issue which I'm not sure won't work

[sixshot]

OK, I'm late to the dance but I'm enjoying this anyway. I just bought a model 1905SL marked 35SL. I got 5 rounds of factory ammo marked 35SL, is this the same as the 351SL, I'm thinking it might be different because looking in my reloading manual the case length says the 351 is 1.3XX", can't remember right now! Anyway, when I turned an old 357 Maximum case to that length it was much too long! Holding one of the loaded rounds up to a 38 special they looked like twins, what am I missing here? Are the 35SL & the 351SL 2 different cartridges? I've made up 2 dummy cases duplicating the factory cases & turned the rims to .408" diameter, sized the cases to 357", sized the neck 1/4" down with my 380 die to get some neck tension & sized 2 180 gr bullets down to .355", just don't know where to start with a powder charge. I understand that the bullets are a bit oversize but I'm guessing this 120 year old barrel might be as well. My bullets are also powder coated. Am I headed in the right direction? Also I have a spring on order, now tell me about those buffers!!! One of my son's is a gunsmith, he's going to hate me. Kind of fun really! Oops, almost forgot, I just found coated .352" at Bear Creek Supply, good price!

Dick

[barnetmill]

OK, I'm late to the dance but I'm enjoying this anyway. I just bought a model 1905SL marked 35SL. I got 5 rounds of factory ammo marked 35SL, is this the same as the 351SL, I'm thinking it might be different because looking in my reloading manual the case length says the 351 is 1.3XX", can't remember right now! Anyway, when I turned an old 357 Maximum case to that length it was much too long! Holding one of the loaded rounds up to a 38 special they looked like twins, what am I missing here? Are the 35SL & the 351SL 2 different cartridges? I've made up 2 dummy cases duplicating the factory cases & turned the rims to .408" diameter, sized the cases to 357", sized the neck 1/4" down with my 380 die to get some neck tension & sized 2 180 gr bullets down to .355", just don't know where to start with a powder charge. I understand that the bullets are a bit oversize but I'm guessing this 120 year old barrel might be as well. My bullets are also powder coated. Am I headed in the right direction? Also I have a spring on order, now tell me about those buffers!!! One of my son's is a gunsmith, he's going to hate me. Kind of fun really! Oops, almost forgot, I just found coated .352" at Bear Creek Supply, good price!

Dick

From left to right: .35 Winchester Self-Loading,
.351 Winchester Self-Loading, .45 ACP

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/42/.35_Winchester_Self-Loading%2C_.351_Winchester_Self-Loading%2C_.45_ACP.jpg/405px-.35_Winchester_Self-Loading%2C_.351_Winchester_Self-Loading%2C_.45_ACP.jpg

[Battis]

To reload 35 WSL, I use the same procedure as the .351 WSL, but with .38 Special brass and 12+ grs IMR4227. You might have to experiment with that amount, plus or minus. What's the weight of the Bear Creek bullets?
Be nice to your gunsmith son - you'll need him when you change the spring and buffer(s). There's more info on that procedure on this forum.

I have bought Bear Creek Supply bullets (not .351 but I think I might)
https://www.bearcreeksupplybullets.com/price-sheet