Light 45-70 bullet

[HWooldridge]

I want to work up a “cat sneeze” load for my single shot 45-70 rifle using a grease lubed pill around 230 to 250 grs. in WW alloy. I’m after very low velocity, just enough to whack a raccoon at 20-30 yds or out of a tree top. I did try a .458 round ball and that wasn’t horrible but I think a bullet shape would be more stable.

I considered one of the newer shapes designed for cap-and-ball revolvers but was wondering if anyone is currently using something they already like, so I’m looking for mold suggestions.

TIA, HW

[Nobade]

The collar button is the classic bullet for that job. Designed for short range practice for the troops.

[HWooldridge]

The collar button is the classic bullet for that job. Designed for short range practice for the troops.

Matt’s Bullets carries those in .452 - not sure about .458. I’ll have to check it out.

[mehavey]

See https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?273740-45-70-Grouse-Gun&p=3198860&viewfull=1#post3198860
Which had this picture attached before TinyPic expired:

https://i.postimg.cc/fyHKpGw3/45-70-Collar-Button-Guide-Gun-foam-ABOVEpowder.jpg
Would you believe . . . Lyman 457130 ?
:veryconfu

[HWooldridge]

See https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?273740-45-70-Grouse-Gun&p=3198860&viewfull=1#post3198860
Which had this picture attached before TinyPic expired:

https://i.postimg.cc/fyHKpGw3/45-70-Collar-Button-Guide-Gun-foam-ABOVEpowder.jpg
Would you believe . . . Lyman 457130 ?
:veryconfu

Bingo - wonder if I can find some of those already cast to test? I’m sure that design will work nicely.

[country gent]

The Lyman collar button bullet works very well in light loads. I have considered trying buddies 225 grn 45 wadcutter but its only .454 dia/ The other I have considered is the lee 255 grn round nose flat point, Here I would buy a 2 cavity mould and lap it up to.459-.460. Im thinking a small game or even deer loaded up some with this bullet.

I normally shoot 500 grn - 550 grn in my 45 cal rifles and with them being heavy rifles recoil isnt as bad, but saving some lead each shot would be nice.

[HWooldridge]

The Lyman collar button bullet works very well in light loads. I have considered trying buddies 225 grn 45 wadcutter but its only .454 dia/ The other I have considered is the lee 255 grn round nose flat point, Here I would buy a 2 cavity mould and lap it up to.459-.460. Im thinking a small game or even deer loaded up some with this bullet.

I normally shoot 500 grn - 550 grn in my 45 cal rifles and with them being heavy rifles recoil isnt as bad, but saving some lead each shot would be nice.

Saving lead is one of my concerns, and 90% of my shooting and hunting can be met with a light boolit. Collar button is a great idea.

[swamp]

I cast the NEI collar button. It has a little bit of a point. Works well for me. I might have some cast up. If you would like to try some, let me know.
I do have some sized and lubed(.459)
swamp

302052

[Larry Gibson]

I use the Rapine 460250 over 8 gr Bullseye which gives 1050 fps out of my TDs with excellent accuracy out to 500 yards. While Rapine moulds are no longer available Accurate makes a copy of it. It's the second from the left.

302051

[RickinTN]

I have an old Ideal single cavity mold which drops the 185 grain semi-wad cutter at .460". I've been meaning to try a few of those in my Guide Gun but other things have gotten in the way. Maybe sometime soon!
Rick

[vagrantviking]

Lee makes a .457" 220gr bullet for the Ruger Old Army. I've played with it a bit but not seriously. Biggest possible issue is that the base is slightly undersized to make it easier to start in the cylinder. At low pressures I don't think it's a problem but could be wrong.

[Larry Gibson]

Lee makes a .457" 220gr bullet for the Ruger Old Army. I've played with it a bit but not seriously. Biggest possible issue is that the base is slightly undersized to make it easier to start in the cylinder. At low pressures I don't think it's a problem but could be wrong.

I worked with that Lee bullet and didn't find it satisfactory. That's why I went with the 460250 because it fits. It's not a compromise or make do.

[FredBuddy]

Until I get a collar button mould,
I paper patch a 200 gr .454 SWC
meant for 45ACP. Good short range
critter getter but no 500 yarder like
Larry Gibson shows us.

[bedbugbilly]

Larry - what is the grain weight on your Rapine mould boolit? ThankJim

[hporter]

Western Bullet Company has both the Lyman and the NOE collar button bullets at reasonable prices if you want to try them out.

http://www.westernbullet.com/noe4gr3.html $14 for 100 of the NOE bullet.

http://www.westernbullet.com/ly4gr6.html $13 for 100 of the Lyman bullet.

I bought some of the NOE collar button bullets from them a while back to shoot in my 1888 Trapdoor rifle. They shot very well with light loads of Bullseye powder.

[Butcher45]

How do you guys think the EPP/UG boolit would work in a 45-70?

Shot great in my .45 airgun@875fps or so, as can be seen in the archives here.

I've killed coyote, and bobcat with the EPP/UG at that velocity. Puts a paper-puncher style hole in the hide.

[Larry Gibson]

Larry - what is the grain weight on your Rapine mould boolit? ThankJim

They run 260 to 270 gr depending on alloy.

[HWooldridge]

Western Bullet Company has both the Lyman and the NOE collar button bullets at reasonable prices if you want to try them out.

http://www.westernbullet.com/noe4gr3.html $14 for 100 of the NOE bullet.

http://www.westernbullet.com/ly4gr6.html $13 for 100 of the Lyman bullet.

I bought some of the NOE collar button bullets from them a while back to shoot in my 1888 Trapdoor rifle. They shot very well with light loads of Bullseye powder.

Thanks for that lead - one of our forum members graciously offered to send me a few collar buttons for not much $ so I took him up on his offer. Those should be here in a few days.

I have a Marlin 1895 for serious work - but I bet this roller will get shot more often with light loads.

[mehavey]

Do you have some Red Dot ?

[HWooldridge]

Do you have some Red Dot ? Yes, I have Red Dot, Clays and 231 for fast powders.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

NOE makes a 186gr collar button mold...and he has some in stock.

https://noebulletmolds.com/site/product-category/bullet-moulds/458-460/460-186-cb-ap4/

[mehavey]

`Suggest use the Red-Dot/Styrofoam positioner placed as per cite in Post #4 (https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?444788-Light-45-70-bullet&p=5428958&viewfull=1#post5428958).
Surprisingly easy to load, very consistent ignition/velocity, and amazingly accurate.

[HWooldridge]

`Suggest use the Red-Dot/Styrofoam positioner placed as per cite in Post #4 (https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?444788-Light-45-70-bullet&p=5428958&viewfull=1#post5428958).
Surprisingly easy to load, very consistent ignition/velocity, and amazingly accurate.

I'll try it. Thank you.

[HWooldridge]

The collar buttons arrived, courtesy of one of our forum members. I loaded two shells to test, 5.0 grs of Red Dot and a piece of quilt batting over the powder. At 25 yds. offhand, both hit within an inch of each other but about 8” high. I can hold off POA for now and may up the charge a grain to see if I can lower impact point a bit. Zero recoil and bout as loud as a .22. I tried some round balls a few days ago but their group was larger. I’ll play with the load and shoot some more off the bench.

[Gobeyond]

NOE makes a 186gr collar button mold...and he has some in stock.

https://noebulletmolds.com/site/product-category/bullet-moulds/458-460/460-186-cb-ap4/

What do you think of heavier collar buttons from 186-198 grains @ Jon B from Glencoe. Are they more stable then the little guys?
Is a heavier load better?

[hporter]

I'm not Jon, but the 186gr NOE shoots very well out of my 1882 Trapdoor. In fact I just took advantage of the NOE 15% off sale and picked up a 4 cavity version this week. I ordered it on the 9th and it just arrived today on the 12th. Can't beat that!

I need to try it out in my H&R single shot 45-70. It is such a light and handy little rifle, it should be a hoot with my mouse fart loads.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

What do you think of heavier collar buttons from 186-198 grains @ Jon B from Glencoe. Are they more stable then the little guys?
Is a heavier load better?

That's a good question, IDK.
I got some 145gr samples from an original Lyman mold that another member has. Myself, I have cast many from a LEE GB mold that drops 'em at 160gr. Both of these shot well for me with light loads.