CBC brass 12ga shell load?

[Rick R]

Maybe I need to change my forum handle to “Nervous Nelly” but here goes.
I picked up two boxes of CBC brass 12ga hulls and over time acquired the RCBS Cowboy 12ga die, 11ga Nitro wads, 11ga fiber wads, 11ga over shot cards and 10ga over shot cards. AND VanDenburg’s book “Reloading Brass Shotshells”.

Now that I’ve got my stuff together I’ve assembled two shells with
CCI Large Pistol primer
75gr Shutzen FFg powder
Nitro over powder wad
Two 1/2” 11ga fiber wads, one with Bore Butter rubbed all over it
11ga card over the fiber wad

Then I put the shell in my MEC shotgun press and seated the wads with 80# of pressure.

Then dropped 1 1/8 oz of #8 shot, seated a 10ga over shot card and sealed it with nail polish.

Two fiber wads puts the shot neatly at the end of the case and according to VanDenburg’s book is OK to do.

Does this all sound legit for those of you who have loaded brass shells?

[Mk42gunner]

I have not loaded real brass shotgun shells, although I did dabble with converted rifle brass for a .410.

Your loads sound reasonable to me.

Robert

[jimb16]

Sounds good to me. Its been a while since I loaded brass shells, but using black powder, you almost can't go wrong. 75 gr isn't all that much in a brass 12. That is less than a 3 dram load.

[Rick R]

Sounds good to me. Its been a while since I loaded brass shells, but using black powder, you almost can't go wrong. 75 gr isn't all that much in a brass 12. That is less than a 3 dram load.

According to the book it’s a 2 3/4 Dram load. 3 Drams is 82gr. I decided to go easy.

Thanks for the moral support guys! I may try shooting these off tomorrow in my CZ SxS.

[GONRA]

GONRA did something similar to RickR with smokeless powder in
12 ga. brass shotshells - pumpkin balls (AQ ?) for "AK-47" shotgun ....
Never finished developing the load.....

[Rick R]

Went to the range today and fired five and a half rounds. 75gr FFg is very light and the shot fell out of the end of one shell when I dropped it in the chamber. :D
The pattern on a 10” bullseye target at 20 yards wasn’t bad.

I’ve cleaned the gun and brass and loaded up 18 more with 80gr of FFg. I sliced a layer off of one of the fiber wads to give a bit more space and I’m experimenting with more Elmers on half the shells and fingernail polish on the others to seal the overshot card in place.

This is an intriguing use of components.

[DaveM]

I've loaded a bunch of these for informal clay busting. I shoot them in my Baikal 12 gauge O/U. Lately, I've taken to loading 20 gauge equivalent loads with 4.3cc each of BP and #7.5 shot. This works out to be ~7/8 oz. of shot. I use a Lee dipper to measure powder and shot. These loads have less recoil, conserve powder and shot, and if I miss the clays it's my fault, not the load's.

I use a nitro card over the powder, then a fiber cushion wad, and seal the shot in with an overshot card glued in place with Duco cement. I picked up some waterglass (sodium silicate) to try as the glue but haven't tried it yet.

I load these with hand tools, pressing everything into place with a dowel.

I also load 20 gauge in Magtech brass cases for use in a Remington Rolling Block converted into a 20g shotgun in Sweden. It shoots great with that square load of 4.3cc each of powder and shot.

[stubshaft]

Sounds good to me. I use Duco cement rather than nail polish though.

[KCSO]

You are good to go I use Tub sealant. You can't find waterglass anymore that is what Grampa used. Istill use his old Bridgeport loading kit.

[HWooldridge]

Sodium silicate is sold by ceramics supply shops - it's used for making sand cores and other things. I just threw away a gallon because it was several years old and had gotten hard.

Having worked with it, I think there are a lot better adhesives on the market today. Grandpa probably used it because he didn't have much else to choose from.

[Kosh75287]

RICK R, whatever you do, take meticulous notes on your loads and procedures (pounds of pressure used to seat wads, trimming a layer from one of the wads, Elmer's Glue vs. Nail Polish, etc.). It's ALL good info, and will save you a lot of re-work in the future. At SOME point, all that info will be WORTH something to the next person who authors a book on reloading brass shotshells.
It sounds like you're approaching things in an ordered, systematic way, which is THE way to do it!

[shortlegs]

Waterglass is available at Lehmans.

[Rick R]

RICK R, whatever you do, take meticulous notes on your loads and procedures (pounds of pressure used to seat wads, trimming a layer from one of the wads, Elmer's Glue vs. Nail Polish, etc.). It's ALL good info, and will save you a lot of re-work in the future. At SOME point, all that info will be WORTH something to the next person who authors a book on reloading brass shotshells.
It sounds like you're approaching things in an ordered, systematic way, which is THE way to do it!

Thanks to all!

FWIW, Elmers was iffy about holding the shot in, finger nail polish worked better. There is one old school hardware store near me where you can buy things like a mowing scythe or a log jack and they had two tubes of Duco cement. You guys are correct, dries quickly, holds well and appears to leave little residue around the case mouth.
I’m slicing about 1/8” off of one wad with my knife and using a section of 3/4” hardwood dowel to allow my shotgun reloader to compress the wads and powder, now up to 90# on the press scale. That leaves about 1/4” of shell past the overshot card to glue to.

I’ve settled on 80gr of FFg and ordered a 90gr spout for my Colt Flask that I’ll cut down to let me drop charges more efficiently.

I’m cleaning fired brass in hot water with Simple Green and Lemi Shine like I do rifle brass, then tossing them in the tumbler with ground walnut shells for a couple hours. They come out looking better than they did new in the box.

One other gent at the club is loading plastic hulls with BP and we fired a couple dozen combined rounds at clay pigeons today. We hit only a few but had a lot of fun trying.

Rest assured I’ll document the final load data on a weather resistant sticky note(s) inside my copy of VanDenburg’s manual so my heirs can figger out what that crazy old coot was up to. ;D

[skeettx]

Here is the drill
Same dipper for shot and powder
So for 1 1/8 ounce of shot, use the same dipper for powder
I use Single F.

https://www.txfowlers.com/products/lee-adjustable-lee-90973-adjustable-shot-dipper?variant=42737899765991&utm_term=&utm_campaign=&utm_source=adwords&utm_medium=ppc&hsa_acc=8440376544&hsa_cam=17543807478&hsa_grp=&hsa_ad=&hsa_src=x&hsa_tgt=&hsa_kw=&hsa_mt=&hsa_net=adwords&hsa_ver=3&gclid=CjwKCAjw2rmWBhB4EiwAiJ0mtWgHyEUbDqMAiAdKverd bZDfWEn1mP-oU6nYKFyVfVlr9lmrO-4d4xoCRV4QAvD_BwE


If you want a heavier load (I do not) you can set the dipper a
1 3/8 ounce and same dipper for powder.

The rest you are doing is spot on.

If you fire only one shot in a SXS, Move the unfired cartridge to the first chamber so the over shot wad is less stressed


Mike

[toot]

also I have used ELMERS WHITE GLUE forever.

[toot]

some use a hot glue gun, it also works.

[toot]

if all of these ways of sealing the case mouth doesn't float your boat, there is always a ROLL CRIMP! works every time. either the antique ones or the new ones, LYMAN, that is used in a drill press. jmho.

[toot]

roll crimping is for plastic & paper only. doing it on brass hulls limits the hull life. I know that the 00 BUCK , brass & aluminum ones used in VIETNAM, the MILITARY loads were rolled crimped.

[toot]

I just saw a reloading video, where the guy sealed hulls, DOWELL & NAIL method, hulls with candle wax, and shot them in a DBL. with out any problems. so another one to seal them with.

[Ziptar]

roll crimping is for plastic & paper only. doing it on brass hulls limits the hull life. I know that the 00 BUCK , brass & aluminum ones used in VIETNAM, the MILITARY loads were rolled crimped.

12 gauge brass shells can be roll crimped with RCBS's Cowboy Die Set (https://www.rcbs.com/dies-and-shell-holders/shotshell/cowboy-shotshell-die/355437.html), but as you said, It does reduce the case life. I came across a brand new set of the RCBS Cowboy dies for half the RCBS's MSRP a long while ago. I bought them but have never actually used them, I use Duco cement. Maybe I should try these dies one of these days. I believe CH4D made a set at one time also.

[Rick R]

I have the RCBS Cowboy die, it works great for decapping, the shell holder makes priming a snap. The ability to size is neat, except the brass hulls don’t obturate with BP loads.
I may load and crimp some hunting loads this Fall for pheasant hunting. It would have been nice if RCBS had included an expander insert that went inside the die like the crimping insert. I may find a machinist who can make one.

[Chena]

I alternate between Duco cement and Deft brushing lacquer as a sealant depending on what’s available. Apply a puddle of the lacquer about the same thickness as the overshot card with an eye dropper, then rotate the case upright at a shallow angle to slosh the lacquer around the entire edge of the card. It dries pretty thin. I have carried 12 gauge brass shells sealed with the lacquer loose in a coat pocket without any problems.

[BLAHUT]

When much younger and didn't have as many options, or money, loaded all brass shotgun shells by hand and sealed then with wax. Didn't seem to matter what kind of wax, candle or bees wax. No problems.

[toot]

Ziptar, I have used the cut down / crimp removed hulls for years and left them open sealed with WHITE ELMERS GLUE, and never a hiccup!

[toot]

cowboy die set's are just the cat's meow! I use them on my brass hulls, but do not use the crimping secquence.

[Digital Dan]

Duco cement, case closed.

Been shooting brass shells for awhile, 3-1-X works fine in an old damascus SxS. I've shot #8, #4 Buck and .690" Ball with the loads with fine results. ~80 gr Swiss 1.5 FG.

[8x33]

sorry, wrong place

[Geezer in NH]

Why not roll crimp been crimping all my 357 and 44 mags with a heavy one? Starts cracks time to anneal.

[Markopolo]

I roll crimp mine slightly with the rcbs cowboy die, then a bit of hot glue and that seals em up tight.

[Chena]

Regarding water glass, I found that over time it absorbs moisture from the air and degrades. That motivated my switch to Duco cement.

[577450]

I have big problem with the BPI book on brass shells. If you believe it, the military would not have them. Also the reloaders that continued after the original powders were not available could not be. He went for an easy way out. There are guys out there that load smokeless in .577 snider, which is 24 gauge to all intents and purposes. I was looking for a 24 gauge load . Didn't find it. What turned me off was the part where he explained the velocity difference by how far his readings by chronograph was compared to factory or something. I don't have the the book to hand (think I used it for kindling), but it seemed like that at 30 yards(with his numbers) , the velocity would drop to zero. I may be wrong,but that book is rubbish and BPI should be ashamed. I will still buy from them , but from somebody who'd interests are specific, this was not useful.

[Chena]

Much of the modern published information on brass shot shells is incomplete and inadequate. It takes a good deal of snooping in the older literature to piece the puzzle together. The military brass 12 gauge was designed M19, manufactured by Remington, but my copy of Cartridges of the World does not provide original load data.